Persistent culinary myths

Day Lewin · 11-09-2015 7:35am

There is a difference between a "myth" and some opinion that you just don't agree with. The former is passed on from person to person (well, often book to book) for years without anyone bothering to check if it is actually true.

Here's a good example: you will often be advised in recipes for yeast bread that the dough is risen if it springs back when pressed with a finger.
Well, this simply ain't so, in fact it is the opposite of true.

Rising yeast dough - or completely new, young, kneaded-but-unrisen dough - has an elastic consistency and will sping back out immediately when depressed with a fingertip. That's because it is full of stretchy gluten and is, or should be, expanding with bubbles from the fermenting yeast!

It is ready to bake when the little hollow fills in a fair bit slower. If it doesn't spring back at all, or very, very slowly, the dough has gone too far, waited too long, and the spring has gone out of its step LOL.

In fairness, plenty of books, recipes, and teachers will tell you all that, too.
But the other one still keeps getting repeated in print, even though a little experience will show that it is not true - in fact, couldn't be true!
That's a persistent culinary myth.

Mrs Fox · 11-09-2015 9:02am

That "use only the white part of spring onions and discard the greens".
Jamie Oliver was one of many others who go by this myth.

kylith · 11-09-2015 9:20am

Mrs Fox wrote: »

That "use only the white part of spring onions and discard the greens".
Jamie Oliver was one of many others who go by this myth.

Weirdly, Americans seem to do it the other way round. I see loads of things on Pintrest for regrowing scallions from the white bits and I'm like "...but that's the part you eat..."

I chop 'em up to where the green part gets a bit tatty; get them greens into ya!

njs030 · 11-09-2015 9:37am

Mrs Fox wrote: »

That "use only the white part of spring onions and discard the greens".
Jamie Oliver was one of many others who go by this myth.

There was a reply of 15 min meals the other day and he used the entire spring onion, maybe he's changed his opinion!

Whispered · 11-09-2015 9:39am

duploelabs wrote: »

One myth that gets me is that Listeria poisoning derived from eating blue cheese, raw milk, or other unpasteurised dairy is harmful to a foetus during the second and third trimester. When you get Listeria poisoning, it affects the development of the brain and spinal column of the foetus, all of which is completed once the first trimester is complete. The standard practice preached of not eating un-pasteurised dairy throughout pregnancy is 'using a sledgehammer to break a nut'.

There is a lot of that when your pregnant and when the baby starts weaning too. So many things you "shouldn't eat"

So my myth is that babies need a special meal cooked for them leaving out all the yummy bits and then liquidised until it's no longer recognisable as food. That's just not true (in the case of a healthy baby with no allergies of course)

rubadub · 11-09-2015 9:55am

Mrs Fox wrote: »

That "use only the white part of spring onions and discard the greens".
Jamie Oliver was one of many others who go by this myth.

What is the myth? was he saying it's poisonous?

I know I do not seem to digest the greens well, as I have gotten sick a few times and seen nothing but those green spring onions coming up, after a big feed of rice & chilli wings.

If he was just saying leave them out I would not see it as a myth
https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110830105148AAepmjq

Best Answer: It's a matter of preference, but the white and green parts of the spring onion have different tastes. Yes, you're right, the Chinese restaurants use the green part almost exclusively as a garnish for soup. But when cooked, the green parts can get mushy and slimy, so typically they're not added to a recipe as a raw ingredient.

Instead, typically, I will only use the white parts of spring onion in a recipe, then chop and save the green parts to sprinkle over later as a garnish.

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

I do laugh at BB dates on yoghurts, sure aren't they just gone-off milk anyway.

I see nothing wrong with BB dates, I laugh at people who do not cop on about what it says, "BEST" not "bubonic", not "botulism" simply "best". If you cook a curry you could give it a "Best After Date" of 1 or 2 days, or wine could have both a best before and best after date.

Mrs Fox · 11-09-2015 10:07am

rubadub wrote: »

What is the myth? was he saying it's poisonous?

I know I do not seem to digest the greens well, as I have gotten sick a few times and seen nothing but those green spring onions coming up, after a big feed of rice & chilli wings.

If he was just saying leave them out I would not see it as a myth

I clearly remember him saying "you don't eat those" and that's that. As if they're toxic. I've been eating them all my life as condiments.

Lovely Bloke · 11-09-2015 11:43am

Whispered wrote: »

There is a lot of that when your pregnant and when the baby starts weaning too. So many things you "shouldn't eat"

So my myth is that babies need a special meal cooked for them leaving out all the yummy bits and then liquidised until it's no longer recognisable as food. That's just not true (in the case of a healthy baby with no allergies of course)

yep, one of the first things mini-baldy ate was a whole chicken drumstick, and he has whatever we are having almost every day, just a smaller portion.

He loves pasta, and I recently found a bag of "10 minute grain" in Tesco, you just add it to boiling water or stock and leave it for ten minutes, it's a mix of different rices, durum wheat, barley, emmer and oats. He eats that by the shovelful.

Whispered · 11-09-2015 1:53pm

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

yep, one of the first things mini-baldy ate was a whole chicken drumstick, and he has whatever we are having almost every day, just a smaller portion.

He loves pasta, and I recently found a bag of "10 minute grain" in Tesco, you just add it to boiling water or stock and leave it for ten minutes, it's a mix of different rices, durum wheat, barley, emmer and oats. He eats that by the shovelful.

Haha another pasta lover here. He is 8 months and his favourite meal is spag Bol with plenty of garlic

messy but tasty.

I might try that grain. I'd say it'll go down well here too.

Tarzana2 · 11-09-2015 2:08pm

duploelabs wrote: »

One myth that gets me is that Listeria poisoning derived from eating blue cheese, raw milk, or other unpasteurised dairy is harmful to a foetus during the second and third trimester. When you get Listeria poisoning, it affects the development of the brain and spinal column of the foetus, all of which is completed once the first trimester is complete. The standard practice preached of not eating un-pasteurised dairy throughout pregnancy is 'using a sledgehammer to break a nut'.

Personally, I wouldn't risk it. It's just a foodstuff.

Tarzana2 · 11-09-2015 2:13pm

Mrs Fox wrote: »

That "use only the white part of spring onions and discard the greens".
Jamie Oliver was one of many others who go by this myth.

I thought people just avoided because they find it tough? Well, that's a personal preference.

MissFlitworth · 11-09-2015 2:54pm

Just a gentle reminder that this thread cannot veer into an area where food safety advice is handed out. Which, I know, puts a damper on chat about Listeria, the risks thereof, and other bacterial wondrousness. Sorry, chaps.

Faith · 11-09-2015 3:13pm

MissFlitworth wrote: »

Just a gentle reminder that this thread cannot veer into an area where food safety advice is handed out. Which, I know, puts a damper on chat about Listeria, the risks thereof, and other bacterial wondrousness. Sorry, chaps.

To add to this, because previous warnings haven't seemed to be clear enough, this is a good example of a culinary myth:

Frying meat seals in the juices. Debunked. Malliard reaction creates flavour compounds, but the juiciness of a piece of meat is only effected by the temperature it is cooked at.

But things like

"Eating X despite Y safety warning is totally fine"

is, at best, an opinion, and at worst, food safety advice. We'll have no choice but to close this thread if this persists.

tricky D · 11-09-2015 3:43pm

As a once upon a time pasta chef, oil in water would get you a free P45 in no time.

The key is proper boiling water, salt and lift the pasta a few times in the first minute or two (when it's most likely to get its stickiness) with one of these which has not yet been mentioned.

If oil works for you, fine but it makes me shudder and may causes binding issues with some sauces.

BaZmO* · 11-09-2015 3:44pm

I've seen Jamie Oliver use the green parts of scallions loads of times. So I'm surprised at that one.

syklops · 11-09-2015 4:23pm

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

yep, one of the first things mini-baldy ate was a whole chicken drumstick, and he has whatever we are having almost every day, just a smaller portion.

He loves pasta, and I recently found a bag of "10 minute grain" in Tesco, you just add it to boiling water or stock and leave it for ten minutes, it's a mix of different rices, durum wheat, barley, emmer and oats. He eats that by the shovelful.

Off topic but my parents were looking after a baby belonging to their friends and were told what he will and wont eat. When they came to collect him my mother was feeding him chicken kabanossy and rice into him and he was eating away. The mother of the baby goes "I didn't know babies could eat rice", to which my father dryly responds "What did you think babies in China eat?"

Day Lewin · 11-09-2015 4:41pm

NO FOOD SAFETY ADVICE OR COMMENTS PLEASE!!

****************************************************
now read on....

Well, as regards the scallions, it's mainly a difference of opinion, I think.

But here's another tale of genuine misconception:

At one time, when Spaghetti, Macaroni, and their ilk, were new end exotic foodstuffs to these Celtic islands, it used to be recommended to soak them before cooking.
Terrible idea! - you don't see that one mentioned any more, (although Elizabeth David alludes to it)

But I've still got a cookery book that earnestly warns me that rice must be thoroughly washed in several waters before cooking, "to rinse away the starch"

Well -- mythology for sure.

You don't need to do this: there are pages of superstition written about the proper ways to cook rice, and maybe some, (or many) of them have a grain of substance (ha, ha)

But as for a "necessity" to wash starch out before cooking, well, just No.

syklops · 11-09-2015 4:48pm

tricky D wrote: »

If oil works for you, fine but it makes me shudder and may causes binding issues with some sauces.

You'd have to put an awful lot of oil into the water to affect the binding of the sauce.

miezekatze · 11-09-2015 5:04pm

katemarch wrote:

But as for a "necessity" to wash starch out before cooking, well, just No.

I've often seen this advice for stuff like lentils (dried ones, obviously) as well. Is that a myth as well? It often even says it on the packet and I don't have much experience cooking lentils so I always did it, but wondered if it's not a waste of time.

hdowney · 11-09-2015 6:14pm

So I took the booklet for my slow cooker out of the drawer it's been languishing in since I got said slow cooker. I was curious about something. Well I just picked it up and was having and general flick through there now and guess what it says:

Browning Before Cooking
Pre-Browning meat and poultry prior to cooking seals in the moisture...........

Yup. Still churning that one out!

Tarzana2 · 11-09-2015 6:14pm

katemarch wrote: »

But I've still got a cookery book that earnestly warns me that rice must be thoroughly washed in several waters before cooking, "to rinse away the starch"

Washing rice does indeed wash away some starch and makes the rice far less gloopy and makes the grains much more separate and pleasant to eat. This isn't a myth, for me anyway. There is a HUGE difference between washed and unwashed rice. And anyone putting said gloopiness down to overcooking - nope, I don't overcook my rice.

It's certainly not a necessity, but it just makes the nice way nicer, IMO.

Day Lewin · 11-09-2015 7:13pm

A fair point, Tarzana2.

But there is no "MUST" about it: I drain rice after boiling in plenty of water, then rinse it in a swoosh under the hot tap and drain again: gloopiness vanishes! (if there were any)

Others precook rice in a spoonful of hot oil, then add exactly double the volume of water and absorb it in: again, un-gloop.

It is the seriousness of the "This must be done!" that irritates me when it is inaccurate and sometimes even misleading. What I call the Myths.

hdowney · 11-09-2015 8:18pm

katemarch wrote: »

A fair point, Tarzana2.

But there is no "MUST" about it: I drain rice after boiling in plenty of water, then rinse it in a swoosh under the hot tap and drain again: gloopiness vanishes! (if there were any)

Others precook rice in a spoonful of hot oil, then add exactly double the volume of water and absorb it in: again, un-gloop.

It is the seriousness of the "This must be done!" that irritates me when it is inaccurate and sometimes even misleading. What I call the Myths.

Agree re the last comment above. Every single person does stuff differently. As long as your food turns out the way YOU like to eat it, what's the problem?

Tarzana2 · 11-09-2015 8:31pm

katemarch wrote: »

But there is no "MUST" about it: I drain rice after boiling in plenty of water, then rinse it in a swoosh under the hot tap and drain again: gloopiness vanishes! (if there were any)

Yeah, it's not a must and to say it is is daft. But whether you take the washing step at the start or the end, the result is the same, so it does have a point to it. It's neither inaccurate nor misleading. I'd personally prefer to wash it when it's uncooked, much less faffy.

unkel · 11-09-2015 8:34pm

I used to add oil to boiling water before adding pasta. Until I saw a laboratory experiment where they proved that pretty much 100% of the oil added to the water was left over after the cooking. For the life of me I can't find the video now

After that I've always paid attention to chefs cooking pasta and I have to say I've never seen a competent chef add oil

What I did learn is that you need to use a large pan with lots (several liters) of water at a rolling boil throughout the cooking with plenty of salt added up front. Mix the pasta with a fork a couple of times during cooking and I can guarantee you that it will not stick.

Tree · 11-09-2015 9:07pm

katemarch wrote: »

NO FOOD SAFETY ADVICE OR COMMENTS PLEASE!!

****************************************************
now read on....

Well, as regards the scallions, it's mainly a difference of opinion, I think.

But here's another tale of genuine misconception:

At one time, when Spaghetti, Macaroni, and their ilk, were new end exotic foodstuffs to these Celtic islands, it used to be recommended to soak them before cooking.
Terrible idea! - you don't see that one mentioned any more, (although Elizabeth David alludes to it)

But I've still got a cookery book that earnestly warns me that rice must be thoroughly washed in several waters before cooking, "to rinse away the starch"

Well -- mythology for sure.

You don't need to do this: there are pages of superstition written about the proper ways to cook rice, and maybe some, (or many) of them have a grain of substance (ha, ha)

But as for a "necessity" to wash starch out before cooking, well, just No.

i soak my pasta sheets for when I make lasagne. Soak them for at least 30mins before assembling, and it's perfect. Less awkward than boiling the sheets for assembly.

Whispered · 11-09-2015 9:40pm

Just to weigh in on the pasta debate; I don't use oil or salt. I used to use salt until the baby started eating but honestly I'm not finding a difference.

Huge pot. Rolling boil. Stir a few times.

The Hill Billy · 12-09-2015 4:16am

The pasta & oil thing - Clearly a matter of opinion & now detracting from the topic of persistent myths.

Let's move on - OK?

tHB

Markcheese · 12-09-2015 5:59am

Tree wrote: »

i soak my pasta sheets for when I make lasagne. Soak them for at least 30mins before assembling, and it's perfect. Less awkward than boiling the sheets for assembly.

I just use the ordinary sheets from the shop ( that say no need to precook on the box )

Tree · 12-09-2015 10:02am

Markcheese wrote: »

I just use the ordinary sheets from the shop ( that say no need to precook on the box )

Try soaking them, you'll end up with much more tender pasta.

You can also soak pasta for the pasta equivalent of a parcook, should take much less time to cook on the hob (4 min down from 12 like)

Dial Hard · 12-09-2015 11:26am

Markcheese wrote:

I just use the ordinary sheets from the shop ( that say no need to precook on the box )

You don't *need* to precook them but doing so prevents them from absorbing all the liquid in the filling, giving you a lovely, floppy lasagna.

It's a matter of personal preference - some people like their lasagna very stiff, I like mine falling all over the place.

syklops · 12-09-2015 12:01pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

You don't *need* to precook them but doing so prevents them from absorbing all the liquid in the filling, giving you a lovely, floppy lasagna.

It's a matter of personal preference - some people like their lasagna very stiff, I like mine falling all over the place.

I always soak them first and nearly always end up with lasagne more like something you would get in an italian restaurant. If I follow the instructions and cook them as is, I end up with something amateurish.

Dizzyblonde · 12-09-2015 3:38pm

I've been soaking my lasagna sheets too ever since someone mentioned it here in the forum, and it makes a huge difference.

I'd like to know if the need to add bread soda to the cooking water for cabbage is a myth? I've always added it because that's how The Mammy made it, but is it really necessary?

Diamond Doll · 12-09-2015 3:55pm

Never heard of the bread soda in cabbage water thing, what's it supposed to do?

Tarzana2 · 12-09-2015 4:49pm

Tree wrote: »

Try soaking them, you'll end up with much more tender pasta.

Soaking also helps to get the flop when you cut a slice, like lasagne should, right?

kylith · 12-09-2015 5:19pm

Diamond Doll wrote: »

Never heard of the bread soda in cabbage water thing, what's it supposed to do?

AFAIK it's supposed to stop you farting after eating it.

On the lasagne thing I don't soak or pre-cook the lasagne sheets and I still get a sloppy lasagne because I use tons of sauce. Gotta have something to mop up with the bread!

dee_mc · 12-09-2015 7:19pm

kylith wrote: »

AFAIK it's supposed to stop you farting after eating it.

On the lasagne thing I don't soak or pre-cook the lasagne sheets and I still get a sloppy lasagne because I use tons of sauce. Gotta have something to mop up with the bread!

It's supposed to keep the cabbage green even during prolonged cooking, but it also destroys the vitamin content as far as I know...

Markcheese · 12-09-2015 7:32pm

Dial Hard wrote: »

You don't *need* to precook them but doing so prevents them from absorbing all the liquid in the filling, giving you a lovely, floppy lasagna.

It's a matter of personal preference - some people like their lasagna very stiff, I like mine falling all over the place.

Snap - love my lasagne sloppy - usually just put loads of sauces in -but will try soaking them next time-(and loads of sauces)

kylith · 12-09-2015 7:56pm

dee_mc wrote: »

It's supposed to keep the cabbage green even during prolonged cooking, but it also destroys the vitamin content as far as I know...

I was misinformed then, but prolonged cooking will destroy the vitamin content by itself anyway, which is why people used to drink the cabbage water.

I remember someone on Come Dine With Me putting it in with red cabbage, not knowing that it would react and turn the cabbage blue!

loyatemu · 12-09-2015 8:17pm

kylith wrote: »

AFAIK it's supposed to stop you farting after eating it.

where's the fun in that?

duploelabs · 13-09-2015 6:15pm

Myth: Cream should be in a carbonara

katydid · 13-09-2015 9:40pm

duploelabs wrote: »

Myth: Cream should be in a carbonara

No way! No need...

katydid · 13-09-2015 9:43pm

syklops wrote: »

I always soak them first and nearly always end up with lasagne more like something you would get in an italian restaurant. If I follow the instructions and cook them as is, I end up with something amateurish.

I tried pre-cooking the lasagne sheets, but I found it very awkward. I used a big oven tray on the hob, and tried cooking three or four at a time, but they were hard to handle, and stuck together. I really would like to pre-cook them, because they made a much better lasagne, but that put me off.

Any tips to make it easier?

syklops · 13-09-2015 9:46pm

katydid wrote: »

I tried pre-cooking the lasagne sheets, but I found it very awkward. I used a big oven tray on the hob, and tried cooking three or four at a time, but they were hard to handle, and stuck together. I really would like to pre-cook them, because they made a much better lasagne, but that put me off.

Any tips to make it easier?

I just soak them, I dont cook them. Leave them soaking like an hour before you put the lasagne into the oven.

katydid · 13-09-2015 9:47pm

syklops wrote: »

I just soak them, I dont cook them. Leave them soaking like an hour before you put the lasagne into the oven.

Ahhh. Thanks. That sounds like a plan.

unkel · 13-09-2015 10:18pm

If you make sure you completely cover the sheets with the top layer of sauce, there is no need to pre cook or soak the sheets up front.

Thephantomsmask · 13-09-2015 10:22pm

katemarch wrote: »

NO FOOD SAFETY ADVICE OR COMMENTS PLEASE!!

****************************************************
now read on....

Well, as regards the scallions, it's mainly a difference of opinion, I think.

But here's another tale of genuine misconception:

At one time, when Spaghetti, Macaroni, and their ilk, were new end exotic foodstuffs to these Celtic islands, it used to be recommended to soak them before cooking.
Terrible idea! - you don't see that one mentioned any more, (although Elizabeth David alludes to it)

But I've still got a cookery book that earnestly warns me that rice must be thoroughly washed in several waters before cooking, "to rinse away the starch"

Well -- mythology for sure.

You don't need to do this: there are pages of superstition written about the proper ways to cook rice, and maybe some, (or many) of them have a grain of substance (ha, ha)

But as for a "necessity" to wash starch out before cooking, well, just No.

For Japanese/Sushi rice, rinsing and soaking is important, leaving starch on the rice stops it getting the right separate but sticky grain texture. I fully agree with it not being needed for general long grain rices and, on the flipside, keeping the starch is essential to a good risotto texture.

Myths that annoy me:

Sushi = raw fish
Pork is unsafe if eaten in any form other than cremated/boiled until white.
MSG is somehow artificial and "more toxic" than table salt (it occurs naturally in savoury foods)
All Scotch is peated

Mellor · 14-09-2015 12:34am

katemarch wrote: »

But I've still got a cookery book that earnestly warns me that rice must be thoroughly washed in several waters before cooking, "to rinse away the starch"

Well -- mythology for sure.

I'm with the poster above, it actually is a requirement for certain kinds of rice. Sushi rice and stick/glutinous rice are the two that spring to mind.

I soak stick rice for a few hours, then rinse it. Even then its still completely starchy and sticky. If you cooked it straight you'd prob end up with a pot of glue.

hdowney wrote: »

Agree re the last comment above. Every single person does stuff differently. As long as your food turns out the way YOU like to eat it, what's the problem?

I don't think the issue should be with different methods to cook a particular food. But rather methods, or parts of method that have no affect on the end results, or don't do what people think they do. (eg searing meat to seal in juices)

Lovely Bloke · 14-09-2015 7:40am

kylith wrote: »

which is why people used to drink the cabbage water.

Used to?

the beer revolu · 14-09-2015 9:01am

A drink rather than food myth:
Poiteen was/is made from potatoes.

No, no, no, no. Not true.
Never was.

Persistent culinary myths

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