DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

This Fat Girl Runs · 11-09-2015 12:44PM

walshb wrote: »

I think if you are training for a marathon, or any running event, and you you are heavyset , or "overweight" then it's a perfect setting to do both, both train for the race, and drop lbs in the process. That is, of course, if you want to both lose weight and prepare for the race. You could simply train hard and put the miles in, and not lose weight because you decide that you don't want to, or that you are going to eat the same if not more due to the fact that you want to do this, or you feel you deserve to do this.

Do you think a calorie deficiency would be the way to go for that? ie. train for a marathon on less calories than required or do you think low carb high fat would be more suitable?

I'm asking because I'm curious what would be a safe, healthy way to train for a marathon and get enough fuel and recovery and still lose weight at the same time. To me, running (on a marathon training plan that is) on a calorie deficit sounds unhealthy. And going low carb high fat is, I've been told, a longer term solution that takes 'years' to implement properly.

Just wondering what are your thoughts?

dublin runner · 11-09-2015 12:45PM

What do you mean by carb loading? This sort of terminology worries me when I read it. I don't carb load. Sure I might increase the portion size by 10% on the week of the marathon. That's it.

By the way, I need to lose weight. Fact. I eat very healthy but need to cut out one or two things. I know that. You have to be honest with yourself (not directing that at you).

Once again. Eat a healthy balanced diet 95% of the time. Treat yourself to dark chocolate etc. the odd time. No need to over-complicate.

Dubgal72 · 11-09-2015 12:45PM

Quick jump in here - kids coming in the door any minute - firstly, thanks to the new contributors to the thread, any and every contribution from our experienced (marathon and other distances) boardsies always welcome

Secondly, a gentle reminder - we are dealing with novices here and for many it is their first time to encounter the minutae of distance running. Let's take things easy.
Finally, and no exceptions, keep it polite. If you wish to argue robustly, take it elsewhere, please. Thank you.

DG

Myles Splitz · 11-09-2015 12:52PM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

I thought that running to burn carbs would mean a runner isn't burning fat...and if a runner is constantly carb loading before a run and gelling during a run, they're not getting to their fat stores thus not burning fat therefore not losing weight.

I thought that was the reason people don't lose weight marathon training, because the priority is on getting enough carbs to fuel the runs. It's all carb carb carb.

In any case, plenty to be said on the subject! :pac:

Weight does not just come from fat though in fact carbs actually contribute alot more to weight because for every molecule of carb you have 2 molecules of water.

This is my many people starting on low carb diets see huge improvements in first 2-3 weeks and then plateau as most of this is actually water weight.

Carb loading is a term I am not a fan of as it often is seen as an excuse to gorge. The reason why the whole fat/carb burning factor is of particular relevance to marathon and ultra marathoners is that weight wise 1g of fat yields nearly double the amount of energy that 1g of carbs does carbs is generally the natural energy source and unless trained the body will begin to burn muscle mass after this (i.e protein)

The problem is that there is roughly about 2 hours worth of carbs that body can store so people thing by loading up they can extend this (in reality they can't) gels can top up but ultimately you are burning carbs quicker than can be absorbed.

Ideally long runs run at correct intensities will help train the body to use a blend of carbs and fats in order to extend the fuel stores. Running long runs too hard will mean that this efficiency is not developed.

walshb · 11-09-2015 12:54PM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Do you think a calorie deficiency would be the way to go for that? ie. train for a marathon on less calories than required or do you think low carb high fat would be more suitable?

I'm asking because I'm curious what would be a safe, healthy way to train for a marathon and get enough fuel and recovery and still lose weight at the same time. To me, running (on a marathon training plan that is) on a calorie deficit sounds unhealthy. And going low carb high fat is, I've been told, a longer term solution that takes 'years' to implement properly.

Just wondering what are your thoughts?

I didn't say to run on a calorie deficit. I would not advise that. Eat well, and consistently. Leave it there.

I think you should obey your body. I think you may be over-analysing this, and over complicating it. Train as hard and as long as your body lets you. Eat when you need or feel like eating, and drink when you need and feel like it. Rest when the body tells you to rest. If you can get this close to a happy lifestyle then you should see yourself running faster for longer, and toning/shedding. It's not a guarantee, because not everyone is the same, but I would think it would work like that for a lot of people.

I would recommend not over indulging because you may feel like that you deserve to because of the hard training you do. This is what always puzzles me. Folks saying that they are training so hard and are not losing weight, and when you look at it you realise that they are eating/drinking when they don't really need to. Ingesting too much liquid because they feel like they need to stay hydrated, or they are just plain thirsty, or they just love the taste and feeling they get. It's very individual.

In a nutshell, if you want to get the best from your marathon training and run the best that you can then the scales and your weight should be a big factor in this. It's a win win. You get to lose lbs (if that is what you want) and your running can only improve, as you are lugging around less weight.

This Fat Girl Runs · 11-09-2015 12:59PM

Myles Splitz wrote: »

Weight does not just come from fat though in fact carbs actually contribute alot more to weight because for every molecule of carb you have 2 molecules of water.

This is my many people starting on low carb diets see huge improvements in first 2-3 weeks and then plateau as most of this is actually water weight.

Carb loading is a term I am not a fan of as it often is seen as an excuse to gorge. The reason why the whole fat/carb burning factor is of particular relevance to marathon and ultra marathoners is that weight wise 1g of fat yields nearly double the amount of energy that 1g of carbs does carbs is generally the natural energy source and unless trained the body will begin to burn muscle mass after this (i.e protein)

The problem is that there is roughly about 2 hours worth of carbs that body can store so people thing by loading up they can extend this (in reality they can't) gels can top up but ultimately you are burning carbs quicker than can be absorbed.

Ideally long runs run at correct intensities will help train the body to use a blend of carbs and fats in order to extend the fuel stores. Running long runs too hard will mean that this efficiency is not developed.

I'm finding all this fascinating so please don't mistake my posts for being argument.

As a novice 'carb loading' is the only term I know and it's all over the internet so forgive my ignorance. Can I presume our mentors will be discussing the best pre-race fuelling strategy during our taper time? I don't 'carb load' (again, forgive the term) before an LSR but had presumed based on things I've read that I would need to in the day or two before the race. It's interesting to find out otherwise and the science behind it (which I'm ashamed to admit I'm not entirely smart enough to fully understand!

)

diego_b · 11-09-2015 12:59PM

Crikey I set off a bit of wildfire here, thanks for your feedback. My comments need a qualifier in the context, I am solely thinking in the context of "this" marathon which is the first for me and many others. I am sure there are runners here and elsewhere that have more of a handy on the diet side of things.
I would be concerned if I was putting on weight but my focus here has been on getting the miles in and how I feel doing them and in general how I feel week by week. When I am back next year I'll be packing in my life/wife and taking Myles's training plan there!!

Battery Kinzie · 11-09-2015 01:03PM

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Ask away Bk but as you say, we might not be able to offer you advice specific to your race...but if we can help, we will
Have a look on the main forum, if there's no thread for this year's Clontarf winter HM, you could always start one.

Yeah I think I'll make a thread there in a while. My questions are more general to HMs and what a realistic goal would be.

I did a 16k run yesterday which was the longest I've run by a good bit (one 12k and one 10k before and then mainly 5-8k runs), which got me into thinking of doing the HM in 10 weeks. I did the 16k in 90 minutes and I reckon I could've done the extra 5k needed for a HM in a half hour to get it done in about 2 hours (and if not, with 10 weeks training I definitely could). I'd like to do the HM in 10 weeks in about 1:40. How realistic is this? I plan to run 3/4 times a week with a mix of interval training, long runs and beach training.

I've never done any sort of races but plan to do a couple of parkruns if I do decide to do the HM. I've only been running for a couple of months so not sure if it's too soon to be doing HMs and all.

Thanks!

This Fat Girl Runs · 11-09-2015 01:04PM

walshb wrote: »

I didn't say to run on a calorie deficit. I would not advise that. Eat well, and consistently. Leave it there.

Sorry. Yes, I know you didn't. That's why I said 'do you think....' because I wanted to know, what do you think?

I think you should obey your body. I think you may be over-analysing this, and over complicating it. Train as hard and as long as your body lets you. Eat when you need or feel like eating, and drink when you need and feel like it. Rest when the body tells you to rest. If you can get this close to a happy lifestyle then you should see yourself running faster for longer, and toning/shedding. It's not a guarantee, because not everyone is the same, but I would think it would work like that for a lot of people.

I would recommend not over indulging because you may feel like that you deserve to because of the hard training you do. This is what always puzzles me. Folks saying that they are training so hard and are not losing weight, and when you look at it you realise that they are eating/drinking when they don't really need to. Ingesting too much liquid because they feel like they need to stay hydrated, or they are juST plain thirsty, or they just live the taste and feel they get. It's very individual.

In a nutshell, if you want to get the best from your marathon training and run the best that you can then the scales and your weight should be a big factor in this. It's a win win. You get to lose lbs (if that is what you want) and your running can only improve, as you are lugging around less weight.

All good food for thought! I haven't yet overindulged or said I can eat crap just because I'm training for a marathon. Oh wait, I did that once a couple of months ago and had a slice of cake.

I haven't changed my eating habits because of my running, or started to eat more because of it. I stick to my healthy, home cooked foods in the form of small meals and smaller snacks. The only thing that has changed is having something for recovery when I get in from a run, then having a meal afterwards. Previously to my training I would just have my dinner and be done with it.

I know better than most that hauling this weight around makes running harder but I still run, and I still feel chuffed when I come in from a run, however slow it may have been because it's a far better feeling than sitting around on my butt all day!

frash · 11-09-2015 01:10PM

Throwing in a non weight loss question here...

ok so next week will be handy enough before the HM
Maybe something like
5, 4, 5 taking Thurs & Fri off before the HM

The week after I'm travelling with work Tues-Thurs with no chance of running
Going to get 5 in on Monday & hopefully 4 in on Tuesday before leaving and then 5 again on Friday before the LSR on Saturday
LSR that week might be 16 rather than the 14 in the plan (I know it's over the 50% rule but can't help it this week)

The next week the HH1 plan has a 20 miler on the Saturday but I'm flying out to a wedding on the Thurs so thinking
Mon 5, Tues 10, Wed 5 & then 20 before the flight on the Thurs
Is that too rushed that last week before taper? Think I should be ok if I do them all at an easy pace.

Vague post I know it's just well ya know.....doubts!

rainbow kirby · 11-09-2015 01:13PM

I never believed in "carb loading" in the traditional sense - it doesn't feel good and I don't want to be bloated on the start line. All I'd bother with before a long race (half/full marathon, Olympic distance tri or longer) would be increasing the size of my dinner portion the night before. The night before my first marathon I had a decent amount of roast lamb with gravy with some garlic bread and salad on the side, and never felt bloated or underfuelled during the race.

walshb · 11-09-2015 01:16PM

Just to be clear, TFGR, when I say you, for the most part I mean in the plural sense. Not you specifically.

As to the calorie deficit? Really, what is that? It's not tangible. I guess the best you could do is listen to your body. If it's not getting enough calories it will probably give you a sign. From one day to the next you may eat loads and eat little and eat normal etc etc. We're not near to black and white.

The only person to really have a good feeling as to whether or not they are calorie deficient is you the person. All the experts in the world can analyse and research and check, but they can never know for each person what is the exact calories needed, or the best amount/type of calories needed for whatever endeavour you choose. You could be eating and drinking on any day to day basis, and some expert could look at it and tell you that you are overeating or underrating. You may feel great, so who's right? Him/her or you?

That's not to say that you should discount all the advice or opinions. Look into everything,and then go with what's bets for you, while always remembering that your gut feeling is probably the most advantageous.

BTW, a slice of cake? Big deal. We have to live as well. It's primarily the quantity that will let you down, not so much the types of foods.

Myles Splitz · 11-09-2015 01:18PM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

I'm finding all this fascinating so please don't mistake my posts for being argument.

As a novice 'carb loading' is the only term I know and it's all over the internet so forgive my ignorance. Can I presume our mentors will be discussing the best pre-race fuelling strategy during our taper time? I don't 'carb load' (again, forgive the term) before an LSR but had presumed based on things I've read that I would need to in the day or two before the race. It's interesting to find out otherwise and the science behind it (which I'm ashamed to admit I'm not entirely smart enough to fully understand! )

No problem at all carb loading is still a hugely used term and many will still advocate this, I should qualify that my post's are made in relation to my experiences as a coach and runner coupled with my education on anatomy and physiology and not an authoritative "this is the right answer". There are others who will say carb loading is an essential part but my issue is not with the term but rather it's interpretation with many (myself included in the past)

In terms of the science while it can be interesting ultimately it is a double edge sword you need to blend the science with common sense application. There are many coaches who successful train athletes without any notion of the science behind it similarly there are many scientists whose vast knowledge of exercise physiology is unrivaled who fail as coaches.

The science simply is an attempt to justify who you try something specific. Whether it works or not often depends on the individual.

I imagine the mentors will come in on diet week of race so I will keep my own opinions short

- Don't change amount you eat but rather the ratios (few extra spuds and once slice less of meat).
- Red meat (if eaten) only till wednesday/thursday after this stick to chicken and fish (for digestion purposes)
- Don't risk anything by making drastic changes.

This Fat Girl Runs · 11-09-2015 01:31PM

walshb wrote: »

Just to be clear, TFGR, when I say you, for the most part I mean in the plural sense. Not you specifically.

As to the calorie deficit? Really, what is that? It's not tangible. I guess the best you could do is listen to your body. If it's not getting enough calories it will probably give you a sign. From one day to the next you may eat loads and eat little and eat normal etc etc. We're not near to black and white.

The only person to really have a good feeling as to whether or not they are calorie deficient is you the person. All the experts in the world can analyse and research and check, but they can never know for each person what is the exact calories needed, or the best amount/type of calories needed for whatever endeavour you choose. You could be eating and drinking on any day to day basis, and some expert could look at it and tell you that you are overeating or underrating. You may feel great, so who's right? Him/her or you?

That's not to say that you should discount all the advice or opinions. Look into everything,and then go with what's bets for you, while always remembering that your gut feeling is probably the most advantageous.

BTW, a slice of cake? Big deal. We have to live as well. It's primarily the quantity that will let you down, not so much the types of foods.

It was good cake! I enjoyed every last crumb! I was more just pointing out that I wasn't making a habit of having crap because I'm training for a marathon.

You're definitely right about making the best choices for me. My head spins sometimes with all the advice I get from both well-meaning friends and strangers to not-so-well-meaning people. All different, all contradictory! Most of it I take on board and try to figure out if it's something for me or not. I do plenty of googling! Some of it I try out and see how I get on. (The rest, for example the 'get off the road fat bitch' advice, I discount immediately! (Caveat: I don't run on the roads, that's just what has been yelled at to me sometimes)).

For now, my focus is on the marathon and the training. Keeping the main thing the main thing etc. I DO have plans for afterwards though and figuring out my nutrition in tandem with my running is part of it.

11-09-2015 01:42PM

I'm in a similar position in that I've neither lost nor gained weight this year. Though giving up lifting has made me feel like I'm getting fatter when I'm definitely not!!

I eat very healthily, there are a small amount of treats in there too, ice cream being my weakness!!! I struggled to eat enough until recently. I've had a dietitian, a personal trainer, and a running coach all look at my diet. The latter said it couldn't be better, the former two said I needed more calories and particularly more carbs having completely burnt out a couple of weeks ago. More carbs added, more food added, and I think I'm finally getting it but I still haven't put on any weight or lost anyway. Tbh, I'd LOVE to lose a few lbs but having gotten so unwell after my last race I'm sticking with the "better to put on a couple of lbs than to not be able to run because I'm burnt out" advice I got.

One of the guys in work said he put on weight last year while training for DCM, but he's a really tiny guy, and he's said it was all down to increased muscle.

I guess it varies for everyone but I suppose as long as you're not gaining fat, and you're not burning out then you're doing OK?

davedanon · 11-09-2015 01:45PM

Just by the by, and I'm not making any specific criticism here, but at mass-participation events such as the Race Series I'm always amazed at the amount of people eating quite close to race time. You see people eating bananas, snacks, sweets, drinking coffee/tea, even eating sandwiches. This I find quite surprising. Everyone is different, and in my specific case I don't like eating within 4 hours of a training run, let alone a race (on marathon day I will have breakfast but as early as possible), and I know guys at the club who feel weakened if they haven't eaten within an hour or two, but still: an awful lot of people seem to think they need to be topping up with food and liquids right up to race time.

Another point I would like to make is that, in general, if you're running 5-6 days a week, you probably will lose weight. Certainly in the case of a first marathon for someone who hasn't previously run, the first thing a novice notices (to their delight) is the love-handles disappearing and the face getting that gaunt, chiselled look. It shouldn't be an obsession. The main thing is the marathon, after all. But most people will lose weight. It tapers off, of course. I am lucky enough to be relatively lean, but even so after 6-7 weeks of hard training (following a 'rest' after London) I'm sure I've only dropped 3-4 lbs.

Mrs Mc · 11-09-2015 02:35PM

Well 18 miles LSR done and dusted. Have to say it was the hardest run I have done on the training schedule to date. The plan was to do 10 miles at MP which for me is 10.18 a mile. Took the day off work to do it, due to a hen on Saturday night. Up early for the usual routine now of porridge, berroca boost, tea and xpose. Did my stretching and foam rolling. Didn't sleep great last night and was really anxious about this one as I knew I would have no company for the MP miles and I have gotten used to the company of the running buddies recently. I had company for the first 6 miles (thanks Mrs KennyG) which we did around the perimeter of St Annes Park. I set off then to complete by 12 miles by myself. First few miles went fine, it was a deceivingly hot today (drank a lot) and when I turned onto Clontarf Road the breeze was really strong. I realise that this can happen on marathon day too but after a few miles into the wind I decided that mentally I needed to do a good run today after my disaster on Wednesday so running to Sutton Cross into the wind was now not an option. Decided to change my route and headed for town over by the 3 arena and down by the Liffey. Nice change of scenery as I had never run this route before. I ran from town out home but getting into my usual stomping ground in Clontarf I knew that I was going to be a bit short on distance, so needed to add another loop on. Had to stop for more water at 16.5 miles as I had drunk the two bottles on my belt. I had to pass by my road to take in the extra miles (mentally very hard) and when I eventually got to the top of my road knew I was going to come a bit short of 18 so had to pass my road again (even harder !) ! Eventually got to my gate and saw 17.93 on the watch, no way was this happening, so down to the end of the road and back. Felt I would never get home at this stage. The last two miles were really tough legs felt like blocks. Now I hold my hand up and say that I am a drama queen but I am finding this journey an emotional roller coaster I actually came in the door after the 18 miles and burst out crying. I have no idea why thankfully the hubby was not here (can see him rolling the eyes to heaven reading this ..... women !) my daughter managed to talk some sense into me and calm me down. Felt completely stupid I have to say. MP miles were tough, run was tough but the positive is that I did it. Splits were :

Mile 1 11.47
Mile 2 11.00
Mile 3 11.22
Mile 4 11.05
Mile 5 11.49
Mile 6 11.45
Mile 7 MP 11.00 (not great)
Mile 8 MP 10.18
Mile 9 MP 10.34
Mile 10 MP 10.20
Mile 11 MP 10.19
Mile 12 MP 10.38 (into wind)
Mile 13 MP 10.29
Mile 14 MP 10.35
Mile 15 MP 10.32
Mile 16 MP 10.51 (into wind)
Mile 17 12.58 (stopped for more water)
Mile 18 12.02 Home at last

All stretched, foam rolled, fed and iced. Note to self...Need to start putting glide on my back under my bra strap.... ouch when I got in the shower.

Feeling and lot better now and totally stupid for bursting into tears. But job done, I am not on as much of a high as last week, but happy its another milestone done. Good luck everyone else doing LSRs this weekend.

Dubgal72 · 11-09-2015 02:46PM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Can I presume our mentors will be discussing the best pre-race fuelling strategy during our taper time?

... It's interesting to find out otherwise and the science behind it (which I'm ashamed to admit I'm not entirely smart enough to fully understand! )

We certainly will

...and we're all on an upwards learning curve here. Banging the notion home here but this is another reason why we have been nagging nudging you all to listen to your body, you know your body best. Marathon training - and running generally - can help you to be your body's best friend, once you tune into each other

Battery Kinzie wrote: »

Yeah I think I'll make a thread there in a while. My questions are more general to HMs and what a realistic goal would be.

I did a 16k run yesterday which was the longest I've run by a good bit (one 12k and one 10k before and then mainly 5-8k runs), which got me into thinking of doing the HM in 10 weeks. I did the 16k in 90 minutes and I reckon I could've done the extra 5k needed for a HM in a half hour to get it done in about 2 hours (and if not, with 10 weeks training I definitely could). I'd like to do the HM in 10 weeks in about 1:40. How realistic is this? I plan to run 3/4 times a week with a mix of interval training, long runs and beach training.

I've never done any sort of races but plan to do a couple of parkruns if I do decide to do the HM. I've only been running for a couple of months so not sure if it's too soon to be doing HMs and all.

Thanks!

Hi again BK, well done on your running so far! As you've not long started running, it's inevitable that you will find yourself running faster on certain training runs but please please please don't intentionally set out to race each training run :eek:
Keep training runs for, well, training your body how to run and races....for racing

Parkruns are a perfect idea for race practice in the meantime.
Your HM is aim is ambitious but without knowing more about your background I couldn't say how possible it is. You'll be best served by following a tried and tested HM-specific plan. Have a look around at a few HM plans and see which one will accommodate your lifestyle, ability to get out running (amount of days) etc. If you want to know more, stick a query up on the Random Running Questions thread, there will be no shortage of advice and experience re HM plans there

frash wrote: »

Throwing in a non weight loss question here...

ok so next week will be handy enough before the HM
Maybe something like
5, 4, 5 taking Thurs & Fri off before the HM

The week after I'm travelling with work Tues-Thurs with no chance of running
Going to get 5 in on Monday & hopefully 4 in on Tuesday before leaving and then 5 again on Friday before the LSR on Saturday
LSR that week might be 16 rather than the 14 in the plan (I know it's over the 50% rule but can't help it this week)

The next week the HH1 plan has a 20 miler on the Saturday but I'm flying out to a wedding on the Thurs so thinking
Mon 5, Tues 10, Wed 5 & then 20 before the flight on the Thurs
Is that too rushed that last week before taper? Think I should be ok if I do them all at an easy pace.

Vague post I know it's just well ya know.....doubts!

I feel a table coming on :pac: Will get back to you in a bit, unless anyone else wants to jump in here?!

duffer247 · 11-09-2015 03:02PM

Dubgal72 wrote: »

Could be over hydration...what colour is your wee btw? In the morning it will (normally) be dark yellow but you should achieve a light yellow/straw colour by lunch time if properly hydrated. If your urine is frequently clear, it may be a sign that you're drinking too much. I usually have a glass of water before bed, two if I've been ahem sipping vino but not any more. I suppose that's an individual capacity so try cutting back liquids at night and see if that gets you through the night. Getting up to wee counts as a sleep interruption so it would be worth trying to fix it now

Thanks dg
Yes sounds like over hydration; probably too much too late - not too sure on the colour at that time of night as I don't bother turning bathroom light on, but during the day it's mostly clear.

Kennyg71 · 11-09-2015 03:54PM

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Well 18 miles LSR done and dusted. Have to say it was the hardest run I have done on the training schedule to date. The plan was to do 10 miles at MP which for me is 10.18 a mile. Took the day off work to do it, due to a hen on Saturday night. Up early for the usual routine now of porridge, berroca boost, tea and xpose. Did my stretching and foam rolling. Didn't sleep great last night and was really anxious about this one as I knew I would have no company for the MP miles and I have gotten used to the company of the running buddies recently. I had company for the first 6 miles (thanks Mrs KennyG) which we did around the perimeter of St Annes Park. I set off then to complete by 12 miles by myself. First few miles went fine, it was a deceivingly hot today (drank a lot) and when I turned onto Clontarf Road the breeze was really strong. I realise that this can happen on marathon day too but after a few miles into the wind I decided that mentally I needed to do a good run today after my disaster on Wednesday so running to Sutton Cross into the wind was now not an option. Decided to change my route and headed for town over by the 3 arena and down by the Liffey. Nice change of scenery as I had never run this route before. I ran from town out home but getting into my usual stomping ground in Clontarf I knew that I was going to be a bit short on distance, so needed to add another loop on. Had to stop for more water at 16.5 miles as I had drunk the two bottles on my belt. I had to pass by my road to take in the extra miles (mentally very hard) and when I eventually got to the top of my road knew I was going to come a bit short of 18 so had to pass my road again (even harder !) ! Eventually got to my gate and saw 17.93 on the watch, no way was this happening, so down to the end of the road and back. Felt I would never get home at this stage. The last two miles were really tough legs felt like blocks. Now I hold my hand up and say that I am a drama queen but I am finding this journey an emotional roller coaster I actually came in the door after the 18 miles and burst out crying. I have no idea why thankfully the hubby was not here (can see him rolling the eyes to heaven reading this ..... women !) my daughter managed to talk some sense into me and calm me down. Felt completely stupid I have to say. MP miles were tough, run was tough but the positive is that I did it. Splits were :

Mile 1 11.47
Mile 2 11.00
Mile 3 11.22
Mile 4 11.05
Mile 5 11.49
Mile 6 11.45
Mile 7 MP 11.00 (not great)
Mile 8 MP 10.18
Mile 9 MP 10.34
Mile 10 MP 10.20
Mile 11 MP 10.19
Mile 12 MP 10.38 (into wind)
Mile 13 MP 10.29
Mile 14 MP 10.35
Mile 15 MP 10.32
Mile 16 MP 10.51 (into wind)
Mile 17 12.58 (stopped for more water)
Mile 18 12.02 Home at last

All stretched, foam rolled, fed and iced. Note to self...Need to start putting glide on my back under my bra strap.... ouch when I got in the shower.

Feeling and lot better now and totally stupid for bursting into tears. But job done, I am not on as much of a high as last week, but happy its another milestone done. Good luck everyone else doing LSRs this weekend.

Well done A, hard runs will stand you for DCM, also getting done on your
own, great will power, past house couple of times and fighting urge to stop
Short not even few meters, shows you have mental strength. And you will
Have plenty of company and support on DCM day. PMP run in middle of
Already tuff session not easy.

have to say glad I have people to knock against on these runs. Enjoy week
end.

Neady83 · 11-09-2015 04:48PM

Mrs Mc wrote: »

Well 18 miles LSR done and dusted.

All stretched, foam rolled, fed and iced. Note to self...Need to start putting glide on my back under my bra strap.... ouch when I got in the shower.

Feeling and lot better now and totally stupid for bursting into tears. But job done, I am not on as much of a high as last week, but happy its another milestone done. Good luck everyone else doing LSRs this weekend.

Well done Mrs Mc, especially on the 10 PMP miles, even though it was tough it must be a massive confidence booster.

+1 on the glide though for me I've to smather it all over the the front under my bra strap, that stinging when you hit the shower is the last thing you need after a long one.

As for emotions, it's when you least expect them that the tears come

I've been there too

chrislad · 11-09-2015 06:08PM

Train booked for the half next Saturday! I'm heading back on the 2pm train so I won't have much time to meet and greet after so treasure me while you can

denis b · 11-09-2015 06:16PM

Mrs Mc

Congrats on that LSR today. Those tears sound as though they came with pride and joy on finishing a really difficult challenge. You did it. An LSR on its own is demanding but mixing it in with PMP miles is really hard. Today's run will stand you in good stead.

Toulouse · 11-09-2015 06:28PM

H'Okay! Seeing as this week is nearly done, I need some more pacing advice.

Next week is my first HM. I have no idea which pacers to go with. What are the other 4:30 hopers going for?

I did the 10 mile in 1:33, probably could have been slightly better if not for congestion, etc.

Am I being ridiculous in thinking that I could do a 2 hr HM?

Kennyg71 · 11-09-2015 06:39PM

Toulouse wrote: »

H'Okay! Seeing as this week is nearly done, I need some more pacing advice.

Next week is my first HM. I have no idea which pacers to go with. What are the other 4:30 hopers going for?

I did the 10 mile in 1:33, probably could have been slightly better if not for congestion, etc.

Am I being ridiculous in thinking that I could do a 2 hr HM?

No expert but u would have nearly extra half hour to cover
Just over 3 miles, depending on how hard u found 10 miles
Seems doable. Also extra month training under your belt and
all seems to be going well, I'd go for it on day and see how
Comfortable feels, if not going well just slow down.

I think u will be well able, but suppose u are only one who
Knows how your training going. Best of luck with what ever
You decide.

Chops1234 · 11-09-2015 06:49PM

Toulouse wrote: »

H'Okay! Seeing as this week is nearly done, I need some more pacing advice.

Next week is my first HM. I have no idea which pacers to go with. What are the other 4:30 hopers going for?

I did the 10 mile in 1:33, probably could have been slightly better if not for congestion, etc.

Am I being ridiculous in thinking that I could do a 2 hr HM?

I did the 10 in 1:32. I'm going to go with the 2 hour Pacers and hope for the best! Will be going with the 4:30 for the marathon. I did the R'n'R half in 2:12 but didn't push myself for that so want to beat that anyways!

BeepBeep67 · 11-09-2015 07:05PM

Toulouse wrote: »

H'Okay! Seeing as this week is nearly done, I need some more pacing advice.

Next week is my first HM. I have no idea which pacers to go with. What are the other 4:30 hopers going for?

I did the 10 mile in 1:33, probably could have been slightly better if not for congestion, etc.

Am I being ridiculous in thinking that I could do a 2 hr HM?

If you apply simple maths, 1:33 for 10m = 9:18 min/mile, 1:59:59 for the HM = 9:10 min/mile, so faster for longer!
So it really depends on if you are on an upward curve and feel confident in achieving that or start a bit slower and push on from halfway.

menoscemo · 11-09-2015 07:15PM

Just on the whole nutrition/weight thing.
It can definitely be hard to both lose weight and train for a first marathon. Some of the more experienced marathoners advising here are probably used to running 70+ mile per week when marathon training so they would definitely find it easier to lose weight.
In reality Most novice programmes are 30-40 mpw which means about 3500kcal burned per week (at an average of 100kcal per mile). That should see you lose 1lb per week assuming you eat no more than maintenance amounts (the amount needed to keep your weight stable if not running at all).

I definitely did not lose any weight when training for my first marathon. Having already lost a alot of weight before starting to run; I was happy enough to stay the same weight and eat my extra 3500kcal of running as 'reward'. It's not even that 3500kcal spread over a week is that much (probably no more than 2 takeaways)

It's also possible to do a hell of a lot of miles and put on weight. When training for Conn Ultra a few years ago, I was doing 70-80 mile per week over about 3 months and yet I managed to put on about 3kg in that time. In retrospect I was being a complete Gorb.

However despite all I have said above I reckon most people (i.e. those with weight to lose) really should be losing weight during marathon training all things being equal. I definitely wouldn't recommend eating less but there is no real need to eat more than usual either. This year for London Marathon I mostly followed this principle and got down to the lowest weight I have been since I was at school. I never felt deprived and It definitely helped my running. Yu will definitely run faster if you have less mass to carry.

I don't believe in carbo loading (I'd have an extra bowl of rice the day before a marathon-that's it) and I certainly wouldn't advocate carbo loading before a weekly long run. In theory your body should be well enough glycogen loaded from your normal diet and even if not, you should be running slowly enough in your long runs to be burning fat anyway. If you already know which gels you can stomach, I don't see the need to be taking them in long runs- that could be counter-productive in the long term.

Singer · 11-09-2015 07:18PM

Toulouse wrote: »

H'Okay! Seeing as this week is nearly done, I need some more pacing advice.

Next week is my first HM. I have no idea which pacers to go with. What are the other 4:30 hopers going for?

I did the 10 mile in 1:33, probably could have been slightly better if not for congestion, etc.

Am I being ridiculous in thinking that I could do a 2 hr HM?

I did my first ever 10m run last year in last year's Frank Duffy in 1:30:xx and did the HM in 1:59:xx. I wasn't running anywhere near the amounts you've been running, you've definitely got a lot more miles in and endurance built up compared to me last year. I'd say go roughly with the 2:00 pacers and kick some ass

Singer · 11-09-2015 07:26PM

This Fat Girl Runs wrote: »

Interestingly, I have neither gained nor lost weight in the last few months. :rolleyes:

I lost a bunch of weight at the start of marathon training (4-5 kg), and have held steady since. However I have been eating A LOT OF FOOD once I realised I was losing weight. I had two lunches at lunch today

:pac: :pac: :pac:

DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread

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