How are teenagers now being taught in school about 9/11

asherbassad · 08-09-2015 05:45PM

SamHarris wrote: »

Yeah, our kids being ignorant about vastly more important global events will teach them Amerikkkans a lesson they won't soon forget!

You're aware that no country on earth other than Ireland teaches their secondary school students a great deal of Irish history? Can you guess why it might be more important to us than to, say, Americans?

By your criteria there would literally not be a history curriculum.

Really though, it's too recent to be in the curriculum for secondary school, maybe in a year or two and if "modern history" is something that is actually taught then, yeah, given that it is probably the most important single event politically in the last 2 decades it probably will be touched on. Not sure how much detail you could go into beyond who did it and the direct consequences.

And yes, in some schools they do learn about the famine - their curriculum varies. But it mostly deals with how the famine affected world history. In the same way our curriculum deals with many major events.

Why the hell should Irish schoolkids learn American history? Here you are banging on like another Uncle Sam lick. If world influence is your sole determinant for what should comprise a history curriculum then 2000 years of Chinese civilization, Persia, Rome, Greece, Mesopotamia, etc that have given the world, the written word, art, literature, mathematics, physics, astronomy, chemistry, medicine.....you know those important little things that have shaped the world moreso than a fucking hotdog

08-09-2015 05:45PM

kneemos wrote: »

Your suggestion that somebody somehow got hold of this persons passport and dropped it on the street is bizzare.
Why would someone do that?

There's also the odd case of a piece of wreckage being discovered years later. How was that possible?

FatherTed · 08-09-2015 05:49PM

asherbassad wrote: »

Why the hell should Irish schoolkids learn American history? Here you are banging on like another Uncle Sam lick. If world influence is your sole determinant for what should comprise a history curriculum then 2000 years of Chinese civilization, Persia, Rome, Greece, Mesopotamia, etc that have given the world, the written word, art, literature, mathematics, physics, astronomy, chemistry, medicine.....you know those important little things that have shaped the world moreso than a fucking hotdog

But Honey Boo Boo trumps all of that.

Overheal · 08-09-2015 05:50PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why would Irish schools teach kids about 9/11? Do you think the famine or the troubles get mentioned in US schools?

They must, because most people know of it. You people schooled me though, so I couldn't rightly say.

kneemos · 08-09-2015 06:00PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There's also the odd case of a piece of wreckage being discovered years later. How was that possible?

Nobody found it?

Shemale · 08-09-2015 06:02PM

Laughing at all the 911 was just a sequence of everyday events:

planes doing what they arent designed to do, aluminium punching a hole in reinforced steel which was designed to resist aircraft impact, trained firemen saying they smell thermite and heard explosions in the basement, all fighter jets being deployed to the extremities and not being scrambled with a possible threat to Bush, Bush not immediately put on Air Force One, buildings collapsing at free fall, one building falling for no reason, intact passports being found on the ground at ground zero, a mastermind suspect within 24 hour, trained military saying they heard a missle, hitting the one side of the pentagon with no files or personnel, all cctv around pentagon gathered up.

A tyrant in power who wanted more wealth and needed a war for popularity, almost identical to the apartment blocks in Russia a few years back.

irishgrover · 08-09-2015 06:05PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why would Irish schools teach kids about 9/11? Do you think the famine or the troubles get mentioned in US schools?

IMHO if you are talking about teaching and education and history then Sept 11th is very important as it was a very clear catalyst for a chain of events that have resulted in

1. The invasion of Afghanistan
2. The invasion of Iraq
3. Resulting increases in radicalization of fundamentalist Muslim terrorism growing in parts of the Baltics, old soviet union, middle east, Africa and Asia.
4. Increased migration of Jihadist terrorists relocating globally, and learning from each other (the birth of IIS)
5. Dissolving of any stability in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and other various parts of the Muslim world
6. Increasingly brutal dictatorial regimes in "secular" Muslim states to counteract the perceived threat fundamentalist Muslim ideology.
7. Increased polarization of ideology across the globe
8. Growing Western appetite for "regime change" for dubious reasons. Iraq (oil), Libya (don't like gadafi -- but love oil), Syria (don't like Hezbola/Russia)
9. Resultant chaos of actively encouraging and secretly supporting "regime change" but not doing anything when it does not go according to plan (Syria / Libya)
10. Russia, noting that the west won't actually commit to anything, using the Wests lack of resolve to it's advantage (Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine, Syria)
11. Hundreds of thousands of people dead
12. Millions of innocent people, living utterly mundane life have turned into refugees'

So from a history point of view, IMHO there is a direct link between 3 year olds washing up on beaches, Eastern European countries closing borders, thousands drowning in the Med and 2 airplanes crashing into NYC almost 15 years ago..

kneemos · 08-09-2015 06:10PM

Shemale wrote: »

Laughing at all the 911 was just a sequence of everyday events:

planes doing what they arent designed to do, aluminium punching a hole in reinforced steel which was designed to resist aircraft impact, trained firemen saying they smell thermite and heard explosions in the basement, all fighter jets being deployed to the extremities and not being scrambled with a possible threat to Bush, Bush not immediately put on Air Force One, buildings collapsing at free fall, one building falling for no reason, intact passports being found on the ground at ground zero, a mastermind suspect within 24 hour, trained military saying they heard a missle, hitting the one side of the pentagon with no files or personnel, all cctv around pentagon gathered up.

A tyrant in power who wanted more wealth and needed a war for popularity, almost identical to the apartment blocks in Russia a few years back.

Goes to show how easy it is to make a conspiracy out of anything.

custard gannet · 08-09-2015 06:17PM

Shemale wrote: »

Laughing at all the 911 was just a sequence of everyday events:

planes doing what they arent designed to do,

Wha.....

aluminium punching a hole in reinforced steel which was designed to resist aircraft impact,

Designed to resist an accidental strike. Less so designed to resist a deliberate top speed strike with a craft carrying a nearly full fuel load.

trained firemen saying they smell thermite and heard explosions in the basement,

The vast majority of FDNY members and unions regard the conspiracy theories as disrespectful guff. There are few, if any, NYPD and FDNY members who are aligned to truther movements.

all fighter jets being deployed to the extremities and not being scrambled with a possible threat to Bush, Bush not immediately put on Air Force One,

The hijackers had turned off the transponders. Even if the air force was fully ready to go they would have had a hard time tracking down the aircraft.

buildings collapsing at free fall, one building falling for no reason, intact passports being found on the ground at ground zero, a mastermind suspect within 24 hour, trained military saying they heard a missle, hitting the one side of the pentagon with no files or personnel, all cctv around pentagon gathered up.

Multiple civilian witnesses saw the plane attack the pentagon. Of all of the hundreds of thousands of structural engineers and architects in America only something like 2000 are members of the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth- and that is assuming that the organisation is not only being truthful with their membership count, but that they are actually bothering to verify the credentials of their members. If I went to 200 doctors and 198 of them gave me the same diagnosis and two diverged, I wouldn't trust the two guys personally.

custard gannet · 08-09-2015 06:23PM

irishgrover wrote: »

So from a history point of view, IMHO there is a direct link between 3 year olds washing up on beaches, Eastern European countries closing borders, thousands drowning in the Med and 2 airplanes crashing into NYC almost 15 years ago..

And 9/11 itself had causes rooted in such events as the USSR invading Afghanistan, the first Gulf War, and Israel- which of course is a situation that can be traced back to the Nazis.....Which can be traced back to WWI.....Which can....Well you know. But it is interesting to think that one Serbian gunman in Sarajevo in 1914 started a chain of events that would cause two world wars, founding Israel and the destruction of two as of then non existent buildings in the most memory seared event since the JFK assassination. Some of these events may have come to pass some other way, but they didn't- they all started with one regular Joe in 1914.

DamagedTrax · 08-09-2015 06:40PM

custard gannet wrote: »

Designed to resist an accidental strike. Less so designed to resist a deliberate top speed strike with a craft carrying a nearly full fuel load.

An aluminium plane *should have crumbled upon impact with steele of that size and strength. and whatever about the fuselage, the wings certainly couldnt have cut those steel beams. the fuel load woud have burned off within seconds too, avgas burns short for safety reasons.

*i dont believe the official story but that doesnt mean i'm right either, just going on what i learned and understood. but hey, crazy stuff happens and the laws of physics get twisted in certain situations... i just doubt it happened on 911.

If I went to 200 doctors and 198 of them gave me the same diagnosis

What if the 198 werent stupid and liked having a job? The unspoken pressure would be immense.

kneemos · 08-09-2015 06:45PM

DamagedTrax wrote: »

An aluminium plane *should have crumbled upon impact with steele of that size and strength. and whatever about the fuselage, the wings certainly couldnt have cut those steel beams. the fuel load woud have burned off within seconds too, avgas burns short for safety reasons.

*i dont believe the official story but that doesnt mean i'm right either, just going on what i learned and understood. but hey, crazy stuff happens and the laws of physics get twisted in certain situations... i just doubt it happened on 911.

What if the 198 werent stupid and liked having a job? The unspoken pressure would be immense.

I saw it in TV punch a hole in the building?

Timberrrrrrrr · 08-09-2015 06:46PM

DamagedTrax wrote: »

An aluminium plane *should have crumbled upon impact with steele of that size and strength. and whatever about the fuselage, the wings certainly couldnt have cut those steel beams. the fuel load woud have burned off within seconds too, avgas burns short for safety reasons.

*i dont believe the official story but that doesnt mean i'm right either, just going on what i learned and understood. but hey, crazy stuff happens and the laws of physics get twisted in certain situations... i just doubt it happened on 911.

What if the 198 werent stupid and liked having a job? The unspoken pressure would be immense.

An egg is one if the easiest things to break yet if you stand it on end you can put tremendous pressure in it without it breaking. As you say the laws of physics and all that....

DamagedTrax · 08-09-2015 06:46PM

kneemos wrote: »

I saw it in TV punch a hole in the building?

im not saying it didnt. it just didnt do it by itself... unless newtons 3rd law jumped ship, they had a little help getting through the steel.

If physics was working that day, then this is what would have happened - aluminium hits steel at speed. aluminium gives way to steel.

DamagedTrax · 08-09-2015 06:49PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

An egg is one if the easiest things to break yet if you stand it on end you can put tremendous pressure in it without it breaking. As you say the laws of physics and all that....

the egg does that by natural design. steel does not bend to speeding aluminium by design.

but again, who knows.

kneemos · 08-09-2015 06:50PM

DamagedTrax wrote: »

im not saying it didnt. it just didnt do it by itself... unless newtons 3rd law jumped ship, they had a little help getting through the steel.

If physics was working that day, then this is what would have happened - aluminium hits steel at speed. aluminium gives way to steel.

How?

DamagedTrax · 08-09-2015 06:51PM

kneemos wrote: »

How?

if i knew that i'd have my own tv3 show on tonight

sheesh · 08-09-2015 06:52PM

razorblunt wrote: »

Not unless Sean Lemass, Emily Dickinson, glacial deposition and erosion had anything to do with it.

for feck sake you have to cover the irish poets one of them always comes up!!!

SamHarris · 08-09-2015 06:54PM

asherbassad wrote: »

Why the hell should Irish schoolkids learn American history? Here you are banging on like another Uncle Sam lick. If world influence is your sole determinant for what should comprise a history curriculum then 2000 years of Chinese civilization, Persia, Rome, Greece, Mesopotamia, etc that have given the world, the written word, art, literature, mathematics, physics, astronomy, chemistry, medicine.....you know those important little things that have shaped the world moreso than a fucking hotdog

Wow. You honestly can't think of any reason why learning the history of the country that is economically, politically and culturally dominant in the world today should not be contingent on them "recognizing" us by teaching their own kids our history? Fair enough, can't say I find it too much of a puzzle myself.

It must be a colossal inferiority complex that would stop you recognizing the difference and to be so very hurt by them not seeming to notice us in the same way (I hope the vast majority of people dont give a ****, just like they would not if we didnt bother learning about them).

I didnt say anything about sole determinant. But yes, it should certainly have an impact on what is taught. Why, what other criteria do you think should be more important? You know, besides the one where they do us a solid and notice us.

Just FYI since its creation, yes the US would be among the most important states to learn about using your own criteria - the advancement of knowledge. So, no, maybe not a hotdog but perhaps the assembly line, powered flight or the moon landing might make it something worth learning about.

Cianmcliam · 08-09-2015 06:54PM

DamagedTrax wrote: »

im not saying it didnt. it just didnt do it by itself... unless newtons 3rd law jumped ship, they had a little help getting through the steel.

If physics was working that day, then this is what would have happened - aluminium hits steel at speed. aluminium gives way to steel.

That's what the official investigation found though isn't it? The airplanes were shredded by the steel columns but the debris passed through the core of the building with jet fuel pouring down lift shafts etc causing large fires throughout each structure. The steel was stripped of its fireproofing by the blast which left it vulnerable to bending (doesn't have to melt to give way) as the fires raged throughout the day.

kneemos · 08-09-2015 06:55PM

DamagedTrax wrote: »

if i knew that i'd have my own tv3 show on tonight

You could say anything then in that case.

DamagedTrax · 08-09-2015 06:57PM

Cianmcliam wrote: »

That's what the official investigation found though isn't it? The airplanes were shredded by the steel columns but the debris passed through the core of the building with jet fuel pouring down lift shafts etc causing large fires throughout each structure.

that would make sense if there wasnt wing shaped cut outs on the towers after the impact. but there was.

The steel was stripped of its fireproofing by the blast which left it vulnerable to bending (doesn't have to melt to give way) as the fires raged throughout the day.

the buildings fell 2 hours after impact. i wouldnt classify that as throughout the day.

SamHarris · 08-09-2015 06:58PM

custard gannet wrote: »

Multiple civilian witnesses saw the plane attack the pentagon. Of all of the hundreds of thousands of structural engineers and architects in America only something like 2000 are members of the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth- and that is assuming that the organisation is not only being truthful with their membership count, but that they are actually bothering to verify the credentials of their members. If I went to 200 doctors and 198 of them gave me the same diagnosis and two diverged, I wouldn't trust the two guys personally.

Isnt it interesting how all the vast amounts of science and data that prove the "official story" true are disregarded by the same people that become incredibly excited about the handful of experts that disagree with it?

I wonder if they think the other engineers and architects just couldnt be bothered telling us all that the official story is impossible.

DamagedTrax · 08-09-2015 06:59PM

kneemos wrote: »

You could say anything then in that case.

i could but i'd be spoofing and there's been enough spoofing on 911 (from a lot of different sides i might add).

however any materials scientist will tell you im not spoofing about steel being stronger than aluminium. thats just a fact.

after that, i dunno what happened. i wish i did.

DA7800 · 08-09-2015 07:00PM

As a current 6th year student who studies history, I can confirm that 9/11 isn't on the course. We don't cover anything post-1992, and that limit also counts for our research study report (RSR).

That being said, that doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't come up in conversation in class when relevant to something that's being discussed. There can be a variety of things not on the syllabus that will end up being discussed ever so briefly for the sake of broader education. It's not all about passing the leaving cert.

SamHarris · 08-09-2015 07:00PM

kneemos wrote: »

You could say anything then in that case.

If you'll notice in the CT forums, they basically do.

wakka12 · 08-09-2015 07:01PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Why would Irish schools teach kids about 9/11? Do you think the famine or the troubles get mentioned in US schools?

My american friend said she learned about the famine actually

secondattempt · 08-09-2015 07:01PM

irishgrover wrote: »

IMHO if you are talking about teaching and education and history then Sept 11th is very important as it was a very clear catalyst for a chain of events that have resulted in

1. The invasion of Afghanistan
2. The invasion of Iraq
3. Resulting increases in radicalization of fundamentalist Muslim terrorism growing in parts of the Baltics, old soviet union, middle east, Africa and Asia.
4. Increased migration of Jihadist terrorists relocating globally, and learning from each other (the birth of IIS)
5. Dissolving of any stability in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and other various parts of the Muslim world
6. Increasingly brutal dictatorial regimes in "secular" Muslim states to counteract the perceived threat fundamentalist Muslim ideology.
7. Increased polarization of ideology across the globe
8. Growing Western appetite for "regime change" for dubious reasons. Iraq (oil), Libya (don't like gadafi -- but love oil), Syria (don't like Hezbola/Russia)
9. Resultant chaos of actively encouraging and secretly supporting "regime change" but not doing anything when it does not go according to plan (Syria / Libya)
10. Russia, noting that the west won't actually commit to anything, using the Wests lack of resolve to it's advantage (Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine, Syria)
11. Hundreds of thousands of people dead
12. Millions of innocent people, living utterly mundane life have turned into refugees'

13. The destruction of the remanants of Palmyra. An entire civilisation future generations won't be able to study.

DamagedTrax · 08-09-2015 07:02PM

SamHarris wrote: »

If you'll notice in the CT forums, they basically do.

yeah the word 'theory' in the title gives it away dont you think? :rolleyes:

08-09-2015 07:03PM

wakka12 wrote: »

My american friend said she learned about the famine actually

Yea, the Irish famine is studied quite a lot internationally.

How are teenagers now being taught in school about 9/11

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