"Haunting Image Of Drowned Boy Sums Up Consequences Of 'The Syrian War'"

Playboy · 04-09-2015 01:43PM

kstand wrote: »

It will come soon enough - most people in Ireland have wonderful moral notions but are utterly clueless as to what an influx of people like that would do to the country. Especially when you take into account the vast cultural differences, religion etc. When the Poles came in their droves there was no problem because there were a lot of cultural similarities and integration was fairly straight forward - there is a fair bit of inter-marrying going on, several of my friends are married to Polish people. However when you introduce a mass of people from a place like Syria, integration is a huge problem - and this is a mistake that has been made a generation or two ago in France and the UK - resulting in what are essentially enclaves of cultures in various parts of the country. This is primarily down to their religion. I would be inclined to say - "welcome - let the women take the scarves off their heads and leave the korans at the border".

And what do you know about it? The scaremongering going on here is frankly ridiculous. The cultural problems are exaggerated. Of course there are ethnic groups who dont integrate very well. The Irish are guilty of this too, just look at Irish Americans, a lot of them live in Irish areas, go to the GAA on a Sunday and spend all their time in Irish bars with Irish people. I know because I was born and lived there and still have lots of family who live an almost exclusively Irish existence in a multicultural country.

There are Chinese, Indians, Africans and people from the West Indies who dont integrate very well in the UK but most people just worry about the Muslims because the media forces it down our throats at every opportunity. Before it was the Muslims it was the Irish, the Blacks, the Russians etc and there will be someone else to pick up the mantle once we get bored of the Muslims.

There are a huge amount of Muslims in the UK who integrate very well, own businesses, work in government, succeed in sports and generally contribute far more to the country than the minority who don't. In time you would hope that the UK can figure out the problem with minority groups who continue to be radicalized and hold controversial and extreme views. But lets be honest here there are plenty of White English people who hold radical and extreme views... thats why parties like the BNP and UKIP get so much support. There are always going to fringes in societies whether they are natives or immigrants and its up to government to introduce progressive policies to overcome this.. for a start ban religious schools so we can prevent our children from being brainwashed at home and at school.

I'm married to a Muslim lady from Egypt, my son is half Irish, half Arab and I have been to the ME many many times and have lots of friends and family here in the UK and over there. They are just normal people like you and me, yes they have some different ideas but so did the Irish 50 years ago when we were in the thrall of the Catholic church. These societies are playing catch up and they will overcome these issues in time. We cant expect everyone to become enlightened at the same time... it takes time and is heavily linked to how developed, educated and affluent a culture is. Whatever the solution is we need to play a part in it... maybe its taking in more refugees, maybe its more money and resources or maybe a combination. All that we know now is that not enough is being done and only more will be done if people make their voices heard. Dragging the debate into areas where these people are dehumanised as chancers, radicals, irresponsible, different, etc etc helps do nothing except maintain the status quo where people are existing in horrendous conditions and children are dying.

Playboy · 04-09-2015 01:44PM

kstand wrote: »

It wont be long until they are running round the streets of Europe too, especially if this goes unchecked. I live in London and am basically watching and waiting for the first IS related attack here.

Why dont you go live in the Aran Islands where you can be safe in the comfort that there are no Muslims running about.

Hagar7 · 04-09-2015 01:49PM

Alexis Sanchez wrote: »

That's because the majority of Scotsmen are naive liberals and they're too ignorant to learn from the mistakes Sweden made.

If you want to know what an independent Scotland will look like, just look at Sweden: multi-ethnic ghettos with high unemployment, high drug abuse, high alcohol abuse, rampant, authoritarian-style political correctness and media censorship of political parties that don't conform to the liberal agenda.

An anti-immigration party called the Swedish Democrats are on-course to become the largest party in the country because of the catastrophic multicultural project the Swedes undertook.

I hope Scotland does get independence, so they can get down to destroying their own country without taking the English and Welsh down with them.

If the Scots are desperate for some folk from the Middle East/South Asia, perhaps they could take all those Pakistani child grooming gangs off of the hands of the English. I reckon they'll be glad to see the back of them.

I know where you are coming from but there's good and bad in every walk of life.
I have no problem with Muslims coming tae Scotland,there are many here already who've settled here and adhered tae the rules.
As long as they do not inflict their laws (Sharia) on their own citizens in our country then I'm happy tae see them here.
One thing that MUST be said is,my grandparents,God rest them,were from Lisburn,they were chased out of N.I.like many others were and made their life in Scotland in the mid 1920's,they were treated abysmaly at first,I.e. jobs,housing and so forth.
Gradually,they settled intae Scotland and tough as it was,they were much happier than living in N.I.
We are only on earth for a short period of life yet it's seems as if many are born tae hate,my view is treat others as equal,never look down on anyone no matter their colour nor creed and live life as best as I can.

kstand · 04-09-2015 01:54PM

Playboy wrote: »

And what do you know about it? The scaremongering going on here is frankly ridiculous. The cultural problems are exaggerated. Of course there are ethnic groups who dont integrate very well. The Irish are guilty of this too, just look at Irish Americans, a lot of them live in Irish areas, go to the GAA on a Sunday and spend all their time in Irish bars with Irish people. I know because I was born and lived there and still have lots of family who live an almost exclusively Irish existence in a multicultural country.

There are Chinese, Indians, Africans and people from the West Indies who dont integrate very well in the UK but most people just worry about the Muslims because the media forces it down our throats at every opportunity. Before it was the Muslims it was the Irish, the Blacks, the Russians etc and there will be someone else to pick up the mantle once we get bored of the Muslims.

There are a huge amount of Muslims in the UK who integrate very well, own businesses, work in government, succeed in sports and generally contribute far more to the country than the minority who don't. In time you would hope that the UK can figure out the problem with minority groups who continue to be radicalized and hold controversial and extreme views. But lets be honest here there are plenty of White English people who hold radical and extreme views... thats why parties like the BNP and UKIP get so much support. There are always going to fringes in societies whether they are natives or immigrants and its up to government to introduce progressive policies to overcome this.. for a start ban religious schools so we can prevent our children from being brainwashed at home and at school.

I'm married to a Muslim lady from Egypt, my son is half Irish, half Arab and I have been to the ME many many times and have lots of friends and family here in the UK and over there. They are just normal people like you and me, yes they have some different ideas but so did the Irish 50 years ago when we were in the thrall of the Catholic church. These societies are playing catch up and they will overcome these issues in time. We cant expect everyone to become enlightened at the same time... it takes time and is heavily linked to how developed, educated and affluent a culture is. Whatever the solution is we need to play a part in it... maybe its taking in more refugees, maybe its more money and resources or maybe a combination. All that we know now is that not enough is being done and only more will be done if people make their voices heard. Dragging the debate into areas where these people are dehumanised as chancers, radicals, irresponsible, different, etc etc helps do nothing except maintain the status quo where people are existing in horrendous conditions and children are dying.

Do you know anything about mass migration? Have you ever lived in any of the European countries mentioned above? Say somewhere like Blackburn or Bradford where the communities live completely separately - what do you know about those places? Or the places in Sweden that have been mentioned?
You say you were born in the US and lived there - fair play to you. The US however is nothing like Europe - the US was always a multi-cultural mix of people from the world over from when the first settlers landed.
You just cannot take a mass migration of people like this and plant them into Europe and assume that everything will be fine and that they will integrate. If you think otherwise then take off the blinkers.

kstand · 04-09-2015 01:55PM

Playboy wrote: »

Why dont you go live in the Aran Islands where you can be safe in the comfort that there are no Muslims running about.

I hope you're in the firing line that day.

04-09-2015 01:55PM

Playboy wrote: »

I'm married to a Muslim lady from Egypt, my son is half Irish, half Arab and I have been to the ME many many times and have lots of friends and family here in the UK and over there.

So you're married to one, you have Muslim friends, you've been to the ME, what do you think about those like...

conorhal wrote: »

Well that approach worked out well in Rotherham and Paris......

...who apparently think them a bit rapey and he once saw some of them in Tyrrelstown...but despite his innuendo he doesn't want any silly emotive thinking about them...

kunst nugget · 04-09-2015 01:59PM

kstand wrote: »

I hope you're in the firing line that day.

Nice…

Playboy · 04-09-2015 01:59PM

kstand wrote: »

I hope you're in the firing line that day.

It wasn't long ago in London that people like me were treated suspiciously because I was the potential bomber. Get over yourself.

kstand · 04-09-2015 02:03PM

Playboy wrote: »

It wasn't long ago in London that people like me were treated suspiciously because I was the potential bomber. Get over yourself.

I know what that felt like. I was living here.

Playboy · 04-09-2015 02:05PM

kstand wrote: »

Do you know anything about mass migration? Have you ever lived in any of the European countries mentioned above? Say somewhere like Blackburn or Bradford where the communities live completely separately - what do you know about those places? Or the places in Sweden that have been mentioned?
You say you were born in the US and lived there - fair play to you. The US however is nothing like Europe - the US was always a multi-cultural mix of people from the world over from when the first settlers landed.
You just cannot take a mass migration of people like this and plant them into Europe and assume that everything will be fine and that they will integrate. If you think otherwise then take off the blinkers.

Um I have lived in the UK for about ten years and been all over the country for work and pleasure so my experience of the 'problem' you like to describe is pretty well informed thank you. Been to Sweden too and have many Swedish friends, some of who live in London. As I said the cultural integration problems are exaggerated... mostly by people who have an agenda or hold certain views. No one is denying there are problems but certain people, parties and media outlets seem to be pretty obsessed with migrants at the expense of all other issues.

I think the hypocrisy of an Irish person living in the UK as an economic migrant banging on about the dangers of economic migrants and refugees is laughable in its absurdity. What kind of cognitive dissonance do you have going on?

Playboy · 04-09-2015 02:06PM

kstand wrote: »

I know what that felt like. I was living here.

Shame on you then.

WakeUp · 04-09-2015 02:07PM

Hagar7 wrote: »

I know where you are coming from but there's good and bad in every walk of life.
I have no problem with Muslims coming tae Scotland,there are many here already who've settled here and adhered tae the rules.
As long as they do not inflict their laws (Sharia) on their own citizens in our country then I'm happy tae see them here.

Sharia is being administered in Britain that already happens. the people who advocate Sharia in European countries like the people in this video as far as Im concerned they have no place here. there is no place for them. its important to point out that of course not all people from an islamic persuasion subscribe to the thoughts of the people in the video and are like this. but the ones that are there is no place for people like that.

Inside Britain's Sharia courts
A new documentary that goes undercover in Britain's Islamic courts reveals the shocking discrimination some women are suffering

In a terraced house in East London, just a stone’s throw from the glittering stadiums of the Olympic Park, a handful of people wait in a small reception room. A young Asian woman and her mother hitch their scarves over their heads while a Somali couple stare at the floor.
This is Leyton Islamic Sharia Council, the oldest and most active such council in the country where scholars hear about 50 cases a month, most of them marital disputes. Nine out of 10 cases are brought by women because, in an Islamic marriage, it is far easier for a man to divorce; the only way for a woman is through one of these Sharia councils. No one knows how many there are in Britain today, in mosques and in houses – one report estimates at least 85. Although they cannot enforce their judgments, these councils control the lives of many Muslim women who may only have had a religious marriage. Even if they had a civil marriage too, some feel the need for a Sharia divorce as a way of moving on with their lives and finding a sense of resolution.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-
order/9975937/Inside-Britains-Sharia-courts.html#disqus_thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDKk15KcqNk

Help!!!! · 04-09-2015 02:17PM

We have all seen the photos of the little boy & it has rightly shocked & saddened most people but has the newspapers increased business for human traffickers?
Now we have all charities/churches/government officials falling over themselves to be seen to help the Syrians & calling on governments to increase quotas.
The problem that people don't seem to realise is that this is just going to increase the number of people willing to pay the human traffickers to get on a boat to come to Europe. If you look at what's going on in Hungary the majority of people on the train are not refugees from Syria, they are from other parts of Africa & Asia. Why are these people not happy to stay in the first safe country they come to? They are not willing to obey the rules to get processed before travelling on to other parts of Europe
The E.U. need to come up with a plan to stop this going on at the source otherwise we will still be taking in thousands of so called refugees in 10years time

kstand · 04-09-2015 02:19PM

Playboy wrote: »

Um I have lived in the UK for about ten years and been all over the country for work and pleasure so my experience of the 'problem' you like to describe is pretty well informed thank you. Been to Sweden too and have many Swedish friends, some of who live in London. As I said the cultural integration problems are exaggerated... mostly by people who have an agenda or hold certain views. No one is denying there are problems but certain people, parties and media outlets seem to be pretty obsessed with migrants at the expense of all other issues.

I think the hypocrisy of an Irish person living in the UK as an economic migrant banging on about the dangers of economic migrants and refugees is laughable in its absurdity. What kind of cognitive dissonance do you have going on?

I'm talking about integration. I couldn't care less about economic migrants - if you read over what I had to say you'd see that. Anyone that wants to come and work should be entitled to.
The downright hypocrisy (or blind stupidity, cant make up my mind which) of a lot of people at times astounds me. We have striven for generations to create a secular world where everyone is free and equal - where everyone has equal rights, be they men or women - whether they are straight or home-sexual or whatever. A world where everyone has a voice, there are no second class citizens. What are the rights of women or homo-sexuals in the middle east? Go on - explain that one to me? What does it say about women and homo-sexuals in the koran? Yet here you are on your high horse rabbiting away.
All I said all along is that immigration is nothing without integration. Its easy for an Irish person to integrate into a country like the UK or the USA and yet still maintain their own culture - not so easy if they go and live somewhere like Jeddah. I'm not demonizing anyone - but that's what you chose to read into it.

kstand · 04-09-2015 02:20PM

Playboy wrote: »

Shame on you then.

Get off your high horse and stop sucking your thumb.

biko · 04-09-2015 02:22PM

The boy that died could have lived.

His family were already established in Turkey but his father needed teeth implants and so wanted to go to EU for teeth and a better future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZUuoaq1MLM

It was a good plan because asylum seekers can get free dental care in Sweden, although Swedish citizens and Swedish OAPs must still pay of course.

jon1981 · 04-09-2015 02:27PM

So are we saying most of these are chasing the welfare systems on offer?

Turkey? Safe
Greece? Safe
Hungary? Safe
Serbia? Safe (kinda)

None of the above are offering overwhelming opportunities to the natives, nevermind migrants.

And if it is the case (and it likely is) that most of the refugees are not only just chasing safety but job opportunities and better welfare systems. Is this wrong of them?

04-09-2015 02:29PM

Playboy wrote: »

Shame on you then.

I don't think they hate us any more in Britain.

Now we're happy to be patted on the head and some will even join in with those who once hated us and point at Muslims as being the problem.

Playboy · 04-09-2015 02:31PM

kstand wrote: »

I'm talking about integration. I couldn't care less about economic migrants - if you read over what I had to say you'd see that. Anyone that wants to come and work should be entitled to.
The downright hypocrisy (or blind stupidity, cant make up my mind which) of a lot of people at times astounds me. We have striven for generations to create a secular world where everyone is free and equal - where everyone has equal rights, be they men or women - whether they are straight or home-sexual or whatever. A world where everyone has a voice, there are no second class citizens. What are the rights of women or homo-sexuals in the middle east? Go on - explain that one to me? What does it say about women and homo-sexuals in the koran? Yet here you are on your high horse rabbiting away.
All I said all along is that immigration is nothing without integration. Its easy for an Irish person to integrate into a country like the UK or the USA and yet still maintain their own culture - not so easy if they go and live somewhere like Jeddah. I'm not demonizing anyone - but that's what you chose to read into it.

Economic migrants need to integrate too lol? The Irish need to integrate... I'm sure plenty of good Irish Catholics and Polish came here with their weird views and didnt agree with divorce, contraception and abortion.. those horrible sins that those evil church of england folk dont have a problem with.

What does the bible say about Homosexuality? When was homosexuality legalised in Ireland and the UK... do you think its not controversial to be a homosexual public figure in Ireland or the UK today even in our enlightened societies where sports people, politicians, actors and people in the army are afraid to come out. You're talking out your arse... you are pointing at people and saying they are more different than me so I dont want them here in the country I immigrated to! It's absurd!

When Ireland legalized gay marriage there were lots of messages of support from Egyptian Muslims on facebook as there was when Americans legalized it nationally. Not all of them are uber religious nutters.. lots of them are far more progressive, liberal and educated than you are. I know that might be hard for you to understand but it is the truth. How many languages do you speak... good man if its more than one but lots of Syrians speak three,, Arabic, English and French... they have good schools and universities too. I'm sorry if that doesnt fit your narrative of Sharia loving bearded mullahs crying "death to the West"

RollieFingers · 04-09-2015 02:38PM

biko wrote: »

The boy that died could have lived.

His family were already established in Turkey but his father needed teeth implants and so wanted to go to EU for teeth and a better future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZUuoaq1MLM

It was a good plan because asylum seekers can get free dental care in Sweden, although Swedish citizens and Swedish OAPs must still pay of course.

It's a joke that citizens of the country would have to pay yet these scroungers get everything handed to them on a plate! Was losing your child worth it for a new set of gnashers? Gob*hites should be locked up!

kstand · 04-09-2015 02:40PM

Playboy wrote: »

Economic migrants need to integrate too lol? The Irish need to integrate... I'm sure plenty of good Irish Catholics and Polish came here with their weird views and didnt agree with divorce, contraception and abortion.. those horrible sins that those evil church of england folk dont have a problem with.

What does the bible say about Homosexuality? When was homosexuality legalised in Ireland and the UK... do you think its not controversial to be a homosexual public figure in Ireland or the UK today even in our enlightened societies where sports people, politicians, actors and people in the army are afraid to come out. You're talking out your arse... you are pointing at people and saying they are more different than me so I dont want them here in the country I immigrated to! It's absurd!

When Ireland legalized gay marriage there were lots of messages of support from Egyptian Muslims on facebook as there was when Americans legalized it nationally. Not all of them are uber religious nutters.. lots of them are far more progressive, liberal and educated than you are. I know that might be hard for you to understand but it is the truth. How many languages do you speak... good man if its more than one but lots of Syrians speak three,, Arabic, English and French... they have good schools and universities too. I'm sorry if that doesnt fit your narrative of Sharia loving bearded mullahs crying "death to the West"

So whats your solution? Open the door and let them all in regardless of numbers? Thats your big idea? Because all else you have done is rattle away like an empty can. I never said I had a problem with them - but I do think that for a vast number of people like that you need to process them properly and whether you like it or not, there are cultural differences that need understanding. If the doors of Europe are flung open tonight then what happens tomorrow morning? And how does Europe cope with the numbers? I dont think I'm being unfair in any of this - but we have never faced anything like this before in terms of the numbers of people.

The_Kew_Tour · 04-09-2015 02:45PM

I like see Ireland take more refugees, but I guess that's a no planner till we sort out or own problems first. Winter in Ireland aint time to have no roof over your head.

Playboy · 04-09-2015 02:45PM

kstand wrote: »

So whats your solution? Open the door and let them all in regardless of numbers? Thats your big idea? Because all else you have done is rattle away like an empty can. I never said I had a problem with them - but I do think that for a vast number of people like that you need to process them properly and whether you like it or not, there are cultural differences that need understanding. If the doors of Europe are flung open tonight then what happens tomorrow morning? And how does Europe cope with the numbers? I dont think I'm being unfair in any of this - but we have never faced anything like this before in terms of the numbers of people.

I didn't say fling open the doors, I said we needed to help. I also said framing the debate in a way that emphasizes our differences does nothing except prevent us from helping. They are suffering human beings and we can and should do more.

kstand · 04-09-2015 02:48PM

Playboy wrote: »

I didn't say fling open the doors, I said we needed to help. I also said framing the debate in a way that emphasizes our differences does nothing except prevent us from helping. They are suffering human beings and we can and should do more.

I never said that we shouldnt help - of course we should help. But the alst thing we need is to open the doors and let them go and set up wherever they please. Its asking for trouble.

One other question. Say we are told in Ireland to take 30000, where do you think they will end up?

Hagar7 · 04-09-2015 02:51PM

WakeUp wrote: »

Sharia is being administered in Britain that already happens. the people who advocate Sharia in European countries like the people in this video as far as Im concerned they have no place here. there is no place for them. its important to point out that of course not all people from an islamic persuasion subscribe to the thoughts of the people in the video and are like this. but the ones that are there is no place for people like that.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-
order/9975937/Inside-Britains-Sharia-courts.html#disqus_thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDKk15KcqNk

Agreed entirely,'When in Rome.....' 👍👍👍

Playboy · 04-09-2015 02:52PM

kstand wrote: »

I never said that we shouldnt help - of course we should help. But the alst thing we need is to open the doors and let them go and set up wherever they please. Its asking for trouble.

One other question. Say we are told in Ireland to take 30000, where do you think they will end up?

No idea.. I would assume in time they would be spread across many communities throughout the country. That's a problem we pay the government to figure out. There are many lessons we can learn so we dont repeat the problems of French for instance where people were stuck in homogeneous ghettos

Hagar7 · 04-09-2015 02:58PM

kstand wrote: »

I hope you're in the firing line that day.

Excuse me but that's over the top and totally uncalled for,catch a grip please.

kstand · 04-09-2015 02:59PM

Playboy wrote: »

No idea.. I would assume in time they would be spread across many communities throughout the country. That's a problem we pay the government to figure out. There are many lessons we can learn so we dont repeat the problems of French for instance where people were stuck in homogeneous ghettos

That's my biggest fear - its not the case of 2 lads jumping off a lorry and their cousin who has been here 10 years picking them up at Junction 9 of the M25.
They will most likely end up in social care and it wont be long before those least well off get the hump with it as they are seen to be overlooked. And that is what plays into the hands of right wingers - and at the same time forces these people to circle the wagons as it were.
My overall solution would be to process these people properly - educate them and their children so that they come into the union skilled - and get to choose where they would like to live. it could also mean that firms could look to building manufacturing outlets in Europe and these people would be ideal for working in those places, be protected socially etc as well and get themselves on the ladder.

jon1981 · 04-09-2015 03:02PM

WakeUp wrote: »

Sharia is being administered in Britain that already happens. the people who advocate Sharia in European countries like the people in this video as far as Im concerned they have no place here. there is no place for them. its important to point out that of course not all people from an islamic persuasion subscribe to the thoughts of the people in the video and are like this. but the ones that are there is no place for people like that.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-
order/9975937/Inside-Britains-Sharia-courts.html#disqus_thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDKk15KcqNk

The video is frightening! Those guys are nuts, essentially talking about world domination! Most common name among new borns in Brussels is Mohammed :eek:

I can see it now... Aran-istan :eek:

04-09-2015 03:07PM

So we all done on the topic?

It was about the image of one victim of the Syrian War.

I think it's descended into "first they'll rape our kids, then they'll impose Sharia Law and finally take over everything".

"Haunting Image Of Drowned Boy Sums Up Consequences Of 'The Syrian War'"

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