"Haunting Image Of Drowned Boy Sums Up Consequences Of 'The Syrian War'"

03-09-2015 10:46PM

JRant wrote: »

Yeah, have a walk around Elis island to see how they were treated.

I have, on two different occasions, I have been traced family members.
Don't know what the problem is? They were kept there, sorted out, then allowed in.
I have no problem with refugees being kept somewhere for a few weeks until they can be moved on.

Spanish Eyes · 03-09-2015 10:48PM

Sad to say, but I think a lot of people are rightly peed off that non genuine asylum scammers have been coming here for years.

Therefore unfortunately people can get fed up with the poor mouth exortations from the media and the asylum industry as a result. That is the reality and it's a sad fact, but true.

So here we are, most of us very empathetic with the plight of Syrian refugees. But sadly, many others will hang on their coat tails. There is talk of false Syrian passports being available in Turkey. Same traffickers I suppose.

It is hard not be a bit cynical about the total right on message coming from the media 100%, no deviation from the message.

But I think it is right to question full on let them all in supporters.

Think about it. I would be happy for a greater number than 1,000 (agreed already), but my problem is, how many of the excess are genuinely fleeing Syria?

Once bitten, twice shy. And I blame Government policy for this. They didn't question anyone much at the time the Nigerians (let's be honest) flooded the place and had loads of kids once here. Nigeria was never a war zone.

I am sad today because of this.

If someone has a solution let me know. Otherwise I am sorry, I too can be sensible and see through the buttons being pressed today about that little kid, god rest him. But he is one of many thousands of kids who have died in conflict etc. I am getting the feeling that this is media driven. Imagine a photographer standing there taking those photos. Shame on him or her. Let the kid rest.

Red21 · 03-09-2015 10:49PM

johnty56 wrote: »

Like it or not, people are animals and actually even worse as they will kill to acquire not what they need, but what they want. People behave like animals.

Why should this phase of world history be any different from any other?

And no I am not trying to equate refugees to animals in a pejorative sense . I am an animal, you are an animal , they are animals.

some of us are trying to be better than this

JRant · 03-09-2015 10:50PM

bubblypop wrote: »

I have, on two different occasions, I have been traced family members.
Don't know what the problem is? They were kept there, sorted out, then allowed in.
I have no problem with refugees being kept somewhere for a few weeks until they can be moved on.

We are in agreement on that then.

My issue is with how they get here, not that they get here.

Streetwalker · 03-09-2015 10:51PM

You can guarantee if the tree huggers win this one and we see millions let into Europe millions more from around the globe will come. This has all the ingredients to destroy Europe and create a platform for the rise of the far right. Utter madness and very sinister to see the way that kids photo is being used to push through an agenda.

johnty56 · 03-09-2015 10:51PM

FortySeven wrote: »

More phucked up than 1945?
1918?
1453?

Yeah...well in those cases military force was used to preserve what was then the Western way of things

BTW I think 1453 is a comparison that will not go down well with those that insist that tens of millions of Muslims could peacefully co exist in the long term in Europe.

Out of interest, what do you think about the breakdown of the migrants coming to Europe.. do you think it will affect the long term outcome?

FortySeven · 03-09-2015 10:52PM

OK, have to go to bed. Bloody work.

Just want to say. I do understand the views of both sides of the debate, I may even take some on board. It's what makes us great, being able to adapt and more importantly, compromise. Is this not what debate eventually leads to?

Sad truth is that there is no solution to this problem for a small boy lying tonight on a mortuary table. Rest in peace Aylan.

Goodnight guys.

ComfortKid · 03-09-2015 10:53PM

FortySeven wrote:

Lost mum at 3. Lost dad and brothers and sisters at 11. Kids home till 15. Homeless, slept in railway station. Drug addiction. Prison. Alcoholism. Unemployed. Prison. Aged 27. Treatment. Job.

How long were you unemployed and at what age did you find a job?

Nice sob story and all but does that give you the right to falsely assume everyone thats unemployed doesn't want to work?

Your medel is in the post.

tonycascarino · 03-09-2015 10:54PM

Streetwalker wrote: »

You can guarantee if the tree huggers win this one and we see millions let into Europe millions more from around the globe will come. This has all the ingredients to destroy Europe and create a platform for the rise of the far right. Utter madness and very sinister to see the way that kids photo is being used to push through an agenda.

Absolutely. Im sure it is well known at this stage that Europe is a soft touch full of naive open border loonies

johnty56 · 03-09-2015 10:54PM

Red21 wrote: »

some of us are trying to be better than this

Yes, but will that work?

That is something I genuinely wonder. If history has proven anything, then the answer is no. The empathy that you and others have for people of a completely different mindset is unlikely to be repaid.

donfers · 03-09-2015 10:56PM

FortySeven wrote: »

Something changed in me today. I had a newspaper thrust into my hand on my tea break, 'have you seen this?'

I would take a year off my life to be able to go back and not look at that haunting image. I have been walking around in a daze all day with a lump in my throat I have not felt since I was a young boy myself. It has returned to me throughout the day and I have been fighting back tears while trying to deal with customers, I could not get out of work fast enough to the sanctuary of my car. Sorry stuff for a man in his 30s.

'100 drowned in migrant tragedy!' '74 rotting corpses found in van,' 'more migrants drown as boat capsizes.' The headlines keep coming.

I have been aware of this going on and thought it was horrific but nothing prepared me for the brutal honesty of that picture I saw this morning, I keep picturing the nervous smile and the trusting eyes of a little boy getting into a dinghy with his family. Probably tired and hungry but excited at the adventure. Then the panic, the fear and that last desperate breath.

How small I feel today, how priviliged I am to not have these struggles. I despair at the world I live in and am ashamed of my lack of action but here I am, just another voice on the internet saying how I feel about this. Powerless to change the forces that have reduced the innocent to flotsam and jetsam.

I called out a co-worker today at lunch, the usual ignorant 'one less to come over here', 'all full of disease' etc, etc. I have been listening to his Islamophobia for years but today I had enough and told him that's enough. I won't stand idly listening to this ****e anymore. It is a small thing but if enough people do one small thing then big changes can happen.

It is one death, his older brother and mother died also but I can't quite seem to rationalise this one. It is sticking with me. Young children and babies die I know that but it is the image itself that says something to me about the world we live in. This little boy had no say in the various geopolitical shifts in the world that brought about his family's desperate attempt to escape their country. He just followed his mother and father. Then we see him lying dead on a beach, still as a peeble, washed up like some misguided sea creature, totally alone. I just can't process this one - how was this little boy left to fend for himself against just about everything the world could throw at him - even in death just tossed aside like a piece of thrash. There are no words to describe how devastatingly hopeless that image made me feel and there's a sense of shamefulness that may never leave me for the kind of detached apathy that insulates us all here. Yes, babies and young children die all the time but the sheer uncaring needless horror that this little guy suffered made visible to us all hits hard and deep - just a solitary small figure lying there lifeless on the beach, abandoned by the world around him. I can't get my head around it still and the worst part of this is in weeks and months to come this heartbreak will slowly fade, as my mind of soul or call it what you like creates some kind of muted acceptanc for what has happened in order for me to stop focusing on it, and that this ever becomes acceptable or palatable is perhaps a wake-up call to what we are now. We tell ourselves we are powerless to change these things from happening to cope with the shame but we are here now, we are looking at a dead toddler washed up on a beach, tut tutting at how horrible it is before moving on to Enda's latest woe or the sports pages. It's the sense of isolation around the little boy's dead body that hurts the most, that nobody, nowhere was there for him - it says something about how dispassionate we have had to become to live with ourselves. I find it absolutely necessary and utterly disspiriting at the same time, that in order to live now we have to stop caring.

JRant · 03-09-2015 10:58PM

FortySeven wrote: »

OK, have to go to bed. Bloody work.

Just want to say. I do understand the views of both sides of the debate, I may even take some on board. It's what makes us great, being able to adapt and more importantly, compromise. Is this not what debate eventually leads to?

Sad truth is that there is no solution to this problem for a small boy lying tonight on a mortuary table. Rest in peace Aylan.

Goodnight guys.

And a goodnight to you sir.

WakeUp · 03-09-2015 10:58PM

Streetwalker wrote: »

You can guarantee if the tree huggers win this one and we see millions let into Europe millions more from around the globe will come. This has all the ingredients to destroy Europe and create a platform for the rise of the far right. Utter madness and very sinister to see the way that kids photo is being used to push through an agenda.

if they get their way on this it will eventually lead to chaos on the streets of Europe its a social and mathematical certainty. an exodus on this scale and future migrations left unchecked, its a certainty. billions of people will want to come here. millions and millions of them will attempt to do so. and they are not going to stop trying. this is how it is.

Spanish Eyes · 03-09-2015 11:00PM

God forgive me. But is there any truth in the stuff that's going around that said only the men on the boat had lifejackets.

I know that is probably an awful thing for me to say. Sorry, but it is going around in my head right now.

Stheno · 03-09-2015 11:00PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

God forgive me. But is there any truth in the stuff that's going around that said only the men on the boat had lifejackets.

I know that is probably an awful thing for me to say. Sorry, but it is going around in my head right now.

Look the captain bailed out and left them be that's worse

FortySeven · 03-09-2015 11:02PM

johnty56 wrote: »

Yeah...well in those cases military force was used to preserve what was then the Western way of things

BTW I think 1453 is a comparison that will not go down well with those that insist that tens of millions of Muslims could peacefully co exist in the long term in Europe.

Out of interest, what do you think about the breakdown of the migrants coming to Europe.. do you think it will affect the long term outcome?

Your second paragraph.
We managed to integrate the Germans after 1945. Surely we can forgive the Muslims by now?

The last question.
Breakdown. I don't know. I think we are heading for a type of conflict we could never imagine. One with so many sides that we will not know who the enemy is, all the while living amongst each other. It scares the living ****e out of me if I am honest. But, I always make decisions on topics by putting myself in the protagonists shoes.

What would you do if you were from Kobane and ISIS was beheading your neighbours? I would flee, and since I'm fleeing, I may as well flee to where I would prefer to be since I have nothing left to lose.

If I was an Afghan I would be an illegal migrant. To be frank (and this may sound bigheaded, but) I am way too intelligent to sit around trying to scratch a living off a dustbowl and a goat.

Now I really am off to bed, had to answer the question since it was specifically for me. Goodnight.

ComfortKid · 03-09-2015 11:02PM

Spanish Eyes wrote:

God forgive me. But is there any truth in the stuff that's going around that said only the men on the boat had lifejackets.

Judging by some of the videos I've seen of these guys in Hungry and Calis, it wouldn't surprise me.

Red21 · 03-09-2015 11:02PM

tonycascarino wrote: »

Where does this end? So we let the Syrians in, more nations are going to chance their arm & flood in here. Are we going to accept them too? Europe is really going to be a phucked up place in 10 years.

Are you implying that Syrians are chancing their arm?

I don't get this, "it's all gonna end bad" stuff, why not do what we can now and wait see how it plays out. We in Europe are the powerful, one way or another we will be deciding what happens and that isn't gonna change anytime soon.

AlekSmart · 03-09-2015 11:04PM

FortySeven wrote: »

You never answered my question? What exactly is it that makes you so insecure to share your country with other human beings?

One possible answer (without claiming to speak for the other poster) is that the Irish are not being consulted about any of this "Sharing" of their country.

That would breed insecurity in many people,particulary those who might just be turning an economic corner themselves.

With any semblance of an Irish Immigration/Asylum "Policy" now largely cast aside,we can only hope that our agencies will be able to impose some form of order on the result.

All we know from todays Political rush of blood to their heads,is that several Government Ministers have already decided that our previous realistic and sustainable response to this Mediterranian Emergency is not enough.

It may not be enough for Alan Kelly,Frances Fitzgerald and the remainder,but 1,150 additional funded immigrant places in a country of our size and situation actually seems about right.

As yet we have no statements regarding where the Government intends to raise the funding for this scheme from,as we still remain uncertain as to whether the EU,UN or Italy will pay us for our Naval Service involvement in Operation Triton as yet..?

Streetwalker · 03-09-2015 11:04PM

We have 90k on our housing waiting list here. Where are we going to house these people and should they jump up the list because they are from Syria? The simple fact is we don't have the room for them.

03-09-2015 11:05PM

JRant wrote: »

We are in agreement on that then.

My issue is with how they get here, not that they get here.

We are not in total agreement, in future we need to do this properly.
Ireland needs to do something, and quick.

It doesn't mean that we allow those already fleeing to die.
Jesus Christ

Old Jakey · 03-09-2015 11:06PM

FortySeven wrote: »

Your second paragraph.
We managed to integrate the Germans after 1945. Surely we can forgive the Muslims by now?

The last question.
Breakdown. I don't know. I think we are heading for a type of conflict we could never imagine. One with so many sides that we will not know who the enemy is, all the while living amongst each other. It scares the living ****e out of me if I am honest. But, I always make decisions on topics by putting myself in the protagonists shoes.

What would you do if you were from Kobane and ISIS was beheading your neighbours? I would flee, and since I'm fleeing, I may as well flee to where I would prefer to be since I have nothing left to lose.

If I was an Afghan I would be an illegal migrant. To be frank (and this may sound bigheaded, but) I am way too intelligent to sit around trying to scratch a living off a dustbowl and a goat.

Now I really am off to bed, had to answer the question since it was specifically for me. Goodnight.

If ISIS was chasing me I'd flee to the first safe country. Don't think I'd be trying to get to Britain or Germany.

Spanish Eyes · 03-09-2015 11:07PM

Do you know, my head is totally melting here.

I am so sorry for that boy. But his brother and mother also died. Where are the pictures of them or any media coverage? Meh, there is something (maybe staged.... sorry and all that) about this.

His brother was five years old. His mother was their mother.

Nothing about them.

The father survived because he had a lifejacket.

Oh god, I know I am coming across as a judgemental pr!ck here, but I cannot help but think of the lad's brother and mother. A mother's instinct is to protect her brood.

How awfully sad. But we must remember the little lad's mother and brother too.

I don't recall much about them today. That's what makes me so feckin cynical about the pic on the beach. I better shut up now.

johnty56 · 03-09-2015 11:07PM

FortySeven wrote: »

Your second paragraph.
We managed to integrate the Germans after 1945. Surely we can forgive the Muslims by now?

The last question.
Breakdown. I don't know. I think we are heading for a type of conflict we could never imagine. One with so many sides that we will not know who the enemy is, all the while living amongst each other. It scares the living ****e out of me if I am honest. But, I always make decisions on topics by putting myself in the protagonists shoes.

What would you do if you were from Kobane and ISIS was beheading your neighbours? I would flee, and since I'm fleeing, I may as well flee to where I would prefer to be since I have nothing left to lose.

If I was an Afghan I would be an illegal migrant. To be frank (and this may sound bigheaded, but) I am way too intelligent to sit around trying to scratch a living off a dustbowl and a goat.

Now I really am off to bed, had to answer the question since it was specifically for me. Goodnight.

Well it is arguable that the Germans have integrated us:)

Personally I am not concerned about the religion of any one, or what they believe in. I am concerned with how they behave, and if religion causes them to behave in a particular way, then I have a problem with it.

I agree with you. There is a big **** storm coming. It probably wont manifest itself for a number of years, but it is coming. That is why the ultra wealthy are doing their damndest to consolidate their wealth now- the rich are getter richer at a phenomenal rate- they know it is coming too.

Your point about not knowing who the enemy is... because they will be amongst us. Why not stop them getting in.. as in now?

petrolcan · 03-09-2015 11:08PM

ComfortKid wrote: »

How long were you unemployed and at what age did you find a job?

Nice sob story and all but does that give you the right to falsely assume everyone thats unemployed doesn't want to work?

Your medel is in the post.

Wow, some response.

Seems you're already on the horse well before the interview.

JRant · 03-09-2015 11:08PM

donfers wrote: »

It is one death, his older brother and mother died also but I can't quite seem to rationalise this one. It is sticking with me. Young children and babies die I know that but it is the image itself that says something to me about the world we live in. This little boy had no say in the various geopolitical shifts in the world that brought about his family's desperate attempt to escape their country. He just followed his mother and father. Then we see him lying dead on a beach, still as a peeble, washed up like some misguided sea creature, totally alone. I just can't process this one - how was this little boy left to fend for himself against just about everything the world could throw at him - even in death just tossed aside like a piece of thrash. There are no words to describe how devastatingly hopeless that image made me feel and there's a sense of shamefulness that may never leave me for the kind of detached apathy that insulates us all here. Yes, babies and young children die all the time but the sheer uncaring needless horror that this little guy suffered made visible to us all hits hard and deep - just a solitary small figure lying there lifeless on the beach, abandoned by the world around him. I can't get my head around it still and the worst part of this is in weeks and months to come this heartbreak will slowly fade, as my mind of soul or call it what you like creates some kind of muted acceptanc for what has happened in order for me to stop focusing on it, and that this ever becomes acceptable or palatable is perhaps a wake-up call to what we are now. We tell ourselves we are powerless to change these things from happening to cope with the shame but we are here now, we are looking at a dead toddler washed up on a beach, tut tutting at how horrible it is before moving on to Enda's latest woe or the sports pages. It's the sense of isolation around the little boy's dead body that hurts the most, that nobody, nowhere was there for him - it says something about how dispassionate we have had to become to live with ourselves. I find it absolutely necessary and utterly disspiriting at the same time, that in order to live now we have to stop caring.

The human race has never been more compassionate or caring then we are now.

Unfortunately we live in an age whereby the good is swept under the carpet and the 'misery porn' gets beamed into our lives with ever increasing frequency.

What happened to that little boy was a tragedy but at least we trying to find a solution. It's not that long ago where these people would have been meet with bullets and not blankets.

03-09-2015 11:08PM

Streetwalker wrote: »

We have 90k on our housing waiting list here. Where are we going to house these people and should they jump up the list because they are from Syria? The simple fact is we don't have the room for them.

So **** them then?

Never mind people fleeing war, trying to keep themselves and their families safe
We are not that badly off here, they are looking for life. Not to come here and bleed the system dry!
Give them a break

Streetwalker · 03-09-2015 11:09PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

God forgive me. But is there any truth in the stuff that's going around that said only the men on the boat had lifejackets.

I know that is probably an awful thing for me to say. Sorry, but it is going around in my head right now.

Not the first time ive heard this today but surprise surprise not a single question on it from the media.

tonycascarino · 03-09-2015 11:10PM

Red21 wrote: »

Are you implying that Syrians are chancing their arm?

I don't get this, "it's all gonna end bad" stuff, why not do what we can now and wait see how it plays out.

First answer - I was implying that migrants from other countries will chance the refugee card seeing how successful the Syrians were.

Second answer - Waiting to see how it all pans out could be far too late for Europe.

Streetwalker · 03-09-2015 11:11PM

bubblypop wrote: »

So **** them then?

Never mind people fleeing war, trying to keep themselves and their families safe
We are not that badly off here, they are looking for life. Not to come here and bleed the system dry!
Give them a break

Eh you mightn't have noticed but we are broke. Again I ask where will they live? In a field in November? In the mountains? Maybe a huge refugee camp in the presidents house in the park?

"Haunting Image Of Drowned Boy Sums Up Consequences Of 'The Syrian War'"

Comments