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"Haunting Image Of Drowned Boy Sums Up Consequences Of 'The Syrian War'"

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Comments

  • #932
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Matt Cooper thinks we should take in up to 5000 migrants and divert money from government revenue to set them up once they get here, easy for Matt to talk on his big salary, nothing about ordinary working people here who broke their backs over the last few years taking the pain of auserity.

    No figures from him either on how much it would cost to loook after thousands of people and for how long it would need to be done to get them settled.

    Yes let's do our part and take our fair share but lefties like Matt seem to have lost the run of themselves.


  • #933
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,457 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    BoJack Horseman wrote: »
    You should check that 3yr old link..... Empty houses are much fewer now..... So I assume you propose compulsory purchase?

    The majority of those would be holiday homes and some of the crazy estates that popped up in the boom period. Even if 10% of them are still available that makes close to 30,000 homes available. I assume a fair few of those would still be in Nama's portfolio.

    Here's a more up to date article for you.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/radical-change-of-policies-is-required-294236.html
    Or better still, reversing the disastrous 61% cut in capital expenditure.

    The foreign aid budget will get a boost, but there are bugger fish ahead of the queue eager for a much needed funding boost.

    I'm sure there are but I am answering the question where might the funding come from. I never said it was going to be an easy solution.


  • #934
    JustTheOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭JustTheOne


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Matt Cooper thinks we should take in up to 5000 migrants and divert money from government revenue to set them up once they get here, easy for Matt to talk on his big salary, nothing about ordinary working people here who broke their backs over the last few years taking the pain of auserity.

    No figures from him either on how much it would cost to loook after thousands of people and for how long it would need to be done to get them settled.

    Yes let's do our part and take our fair share but lefties like Matt seem to have lost the run of themselves.
    Austerity= living within your means.

    Do you think austerity has led to Irish people hopping on boats fleeing the country and drowning?

    Let's not think Irish people have it near as bad as they like to make out and whinge about.


  • #935
    Irish Praetorian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    Seriously. Assad would be fine without western involvement in the Arab Spring.

    Presumably Assad 'would be fine' were in not for all that Western interference in the same way that Iraq 'was fine' against ISIS in spite of all the Western money and equipment they had lavished on them? People really need to get over the idea that not a pin can fall anywhere in the world without 'da West' being the cause of it...


  • #936
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,457 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    That surplus over estimates still leaves us in deficit.

    But this Government are going to squander it anyway trying to buy the next election. Might as well save some people lives rather than give Mick & Mary an extra fiver in their wages from tax cuts.


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  • #937
    JustTheOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭JustTheOne


    gandalf wrote: »
    But this Government are going to squander it anyway trying to buy the next election.

    As will the opposition promising to abolish everything and give everyone money back.

    All parties making promises to get elected.

    Welcome to politics.


  • #938
    FortySeven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭FortySeven


    ComfortKid wrote: »
    So if Ireland is to take in a few thousand of these refugees, Where do we put them? We have a massive backlog in social housing, massive unemployment problem. Serious question, what do we do.

    Personally, if I were all powerful.

    Put the country on a military footing. Commandeer all religious buildings and create secure temporary accomodation in them, (religion has had centuries of money out of this country, time to give some back)

    Put anyone who has been on the dole for more than 3 years to work, renovating the ghost estates littering the country to create real homes. Use them to ease the social housing crisis.

    Stop paying the bondholders and instead target the money for urban and rural regeneration schemes and give the migrants work within those schemes and tax their incomes.

    Put a temporary 'ignore' on unions and force civil servants to work at the pace the rest of us do to process all claims and teach all children who need it. Also remove the monthly hotel breaks loosely disguised as 'training' for civil servants. (A few million here alone)

    Audit all charities and revoke the licences of those that contribute less than 90% of donations to the cause. Seize the bank accounts of the worst offenders.

    Enforce our 12.5% corporate tax rate and use the money to compulsory purchase all privately let homes and put half of them on the market to stop the few profiteering from a housing shortage, rent problem solved.

    Offer a government mortgage scheme to take away the stranglehold of the banks on our economy.

    Remove lifetime benefits across the board. Keep a social safety net but stop subsidising gob****ery.

    In short, make the country work for the people, not the takers. If we had a society such as this we would not have the worry about a COUNTRY being abble to accomodate a few extra people.


  • #939
    JustTheOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭JustTheOne


    FortySeven wrote: »
    Personally, if I were all powerful.

    Put the country on a military footing. Commandeer all religious buildings and create secure temporary accomodation in them, (religion has had centuries of money out of this country, time to give some back)

    Put anyone who has been on the dole for more than 3 years to work, renovating the ghost estates littering the country to create real homes. Use them to ease the social housing crisis.

    Stop paying the bondholders and instead target the money for urban and rural regeneration schemes and give the migrants work within those schemes and tax their incomes.

    Put a temporary 'ignore' on unions and force civil servants to work at the pace the rest of us do to process all claims and teach all children who need it. Also remove the monthly hotel breaks loosely disguised as 'training' for civil servants. (A few million here alone)

    Audit all charities and revoke the licences of those that contribute less than 90% of donations to the cause. Seize the bank accounts of the worst offenders.

    Enforce our 12.5% corporate tax rate and use the money to compulsory purchase all privately let homes and put half of them on the market to stop the few profiteering from a housing shortage, rent problem solved.

    Offer a government mortgage scheme to take away the stranglehold of the banks on our economy.

    Remove lifetime benefits across the board. Keep a social safety net but stop subsidising gob****ery.

    In short, make the country work for the people, not the takers. If we had a society such as this we would not have the worry about a COUNTRY being abble to accomodate a few extra people.

    Can you imagine the uproar considering we have people whinging about paying for water.


  • #940
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96871079&postcount=891

    Linked for your pleasure.

    That was largely debunked after you posted it. it's also psychotic to link to your own stuff. It really proves bog all.


    Of course there are sectarian pressures in Syria. Like most colonial States it's an artificial construct. And the French created an allawite (Shia) aristocracy. There's resentment. Assad was handling that until the Arab spring when western, and largely U.S. backed rebels attacked government positions. The U.S. bombed Assad, but an attempt by Cameron to get Britain involved failed. That bombing encouraged the rebels. Meanwhile ISIS who grew out of the chaos of Iraq, also caused by yank imperialism, entered the fray and joined up with the U.S. supported rebels.

    On the side of Assad are America's enemies. Iran, Russia, Hezbollah. ISIS only became an issue for yank imperialists when they were too bloody even for psychopathic neocons. Even now the psychopaths still call Iran the biggest sponsor of "global terror" and want to bomb it to the Middle Ages which will increase the anarchy zone and encourage ISIS even more. Turkey, America's ally, is bombing the Kurds allowing Isis to advance as it is.


  • #941
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,457 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    As will the opposition promising to abolish everything and give everyone money back.

    All parties making promises to get elected.

    Welcome to politics.

    Oh I am well aware of how politics work in this country.

    Again someone asked the question and I produced an answer.

    Taking in a number like 5000 would be possible if there is a political will and people actually look beyond the nimbyism and lets be honest racism.


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  • #942
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    As we speak? Well as I'm on the train my way to work as we speak no I'm not tidying anything.

    But if the government were to being taking in these people and requesting places for them to stay, I'd open my door without hesitation.

    And in our free-society,that is your perogative.

    However,if this sudden rush of Icelandic style humanity is to mean anything,it cannot simply stop at your doorstep.

    If you,or anybody else,want's it to mean anything other than salving personal sensations of guilt then you have to embrace greeting your chosen guests as your "new" family...to the extent of supporting them financially,socially and psychologically as an integral part of your family.

    If you feel capable of accepting this responsibility then away you go,but the reality of many of these gestures is one of a saner,wiser and far less media friendly outcome.

    Of course this Individual charitable response IS an option,and a positive one to boot,However it is NOT even close to a solution for all of the issues which bedevil other parts of this Planet,some of them every bit as bad as the Syrian and Sub Saharan African crises.

    Ireland already contributes over €600,000,000 per anum towards Foreign-Aid in a structured and long running programme,regularly pointed to by Politicians of all hue's seeking to up their profiles as caring-sharing and all round nice folks.

    One of the notable absences from any of the Irish Media's coverage of this re-occuring migrant/asylum issue is the reluctance of the Irish Media to give us any accounts of the successes of our current system...the people who,over the decades of our Asylum System functioning,successfully engaged with it and as a result were facilitated to build new lives in this country.

    Success,especially small scale,and well managed success,does'nt sell papers.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #943
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    Yeah because in an ethno-sectarian conflict between a pro-Shia regime under Assad backed by Iran and provided with weaponry by Russia, against a largely fundamentalist-Sunni rebel movement receiving funding and support from private citizens and governments in states across the Gulf Region (including but not limited to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE) as well as receiving support and manpower from the Muslim communities in several European countries (including many of those now debating how many more refugees they will take in to enlarge those communities) most notably the UK, France, Belgium and Germany as well as incidental support from captured US weapons drops aimed at others and some formerly moderate US trained personnel, both of whom are hostile to a separatist Kurdish movement which is harassed and attacked by them and also by Turkey which up until recently had been turning a blind eye to the passage of men and material to ISIS, in a situation further complicated by the 'FSA' rebels who initially attracted the most attention and support from the 'West' but were subsequently sidelined, it's quite clear that everything is the fault of the US and if only that country would just up and disappear so we could all live in Utopia...

    Of course there are sectarian pressures in Syria. Like most colonial States it's an artificial construct. And the French created an allawite (Shia) aristocracy. There's resentment. Assad was handling that until the Arab spring when western, and largely U.S. backed rebels attacked government positions. The U.S. bombed Assad, but an attempt by Cameron to get Britain involved failed. That bombing encouraged the rebels. Meanwhile ISIS who grew out of the chaos of Iraq, also caused by yank imperialism, entered the fray and joined up with the U.S. supported rebels.

    On the side of Assad are America's enemies. Iran, Russia, Hezbollah. ISIS only became an issue for yank imperialists when they were too bloody even for psychopathic neocons. Even now the psychopaths still call Iran the biggest sponsor of "global terror" and want to bomb it to the Middle Ages which will increase the anarchy zone and encourage ISIS even more. Turkey, America's ally, is bombing the Kurds allowing Isis to advance as it is.

    I love the "incidental US weapons". Even now the European neo conservatives as their own continent is de stabilised produce americanised fox news talking points.


  • #944
    Hans Bricks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Hans Bricks


    Another social media daily outrage. Watch everyone go back into oblivious vanity tomorrow.

    I dunno what is gonna happen. ME is just in disarray.


  • #945
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    gandalf wrote: »
    Oh I am well aware of how politics work in this country.

    Again someone asked the question and I produced an answer.

    Taking in a number like 5000 would be possible if there is a political will and people actually look beyond the nimbyism and lets be honest racism.

    We could take in far more if the kind of people who shout racism all the time -- mostly the uber bourgeois -- stepped up to the plate.


  • #946
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    "gandalf wrote: »
    Taking in a number like 5000 would be possible.

    5,000 would be easy.

    But that's not what will be asked.

    If a simple per-capita disbursement agreement was in place, we would be taking around 1k per month.
    12k per year, 60k over the next dail..... Assuming numbers don't continue to rise ... (which they are).

    People need to think more than 5 minutes in front of their face.


  • #947
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    Austerity= living within your means.

    Do you think austerity has led to Irish people hopping on boats fleeing the country and drowning?

    Let's not think Irish people have it near as bad as they like to make out and whinge about.

    We didn't create the problems in the middle east, like I said we should do our bit but talking about letting up to 5000 in is crazy.


  • #948
    JustTheOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭JustTheOne


    gandalf wrote: »
    Oh I am well aware of how politics work in this country.

    Again someone asked the question and I produced an answer.

    Taking in a number like 5000 would be possible if there is a political will and people actually look beyond the nimbyism and lets be honest racism.
    Here here.


  • #949
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    Matt Cooper thinks we should take in up to 5000 migrants and divert money from government revenue to set them up once they get here, easy for Matt to talk on his big salary, nothing about ordinary working people here who broke their backs over the last few years taking the pain of auserity.

    No figures from him either on how much it would cost to loook after thousands of people and for how long it would need to be done to get them settled.

    Yes let's do our part and take our fair share but lefties like Matt seem to have lost the run of themselves.

    And what would our 'fair share' be? 5000 doesn't sound all that unreasonable to me considering the scale of the crisis

    If a quota system were introduce to determine numbers we'd probably be looking at at least twice that amount


  • #950
    JustTheOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭JustTheOne


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    We didn't create the problems in the middle east, like I said we should do our bit but talking about letting up to 5000 in is crazy.

    It's really not like.

    There is 60,000 people long term unemployed in this country who are capable of working.

    We are able to fund their lifestyle, surely 5 thousand people who are fleeing for their lives isn't gonna be that much a strain.


  • #951
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    My name is URL wrote: »
    And what would our 'fair share' be? 5000 doesn't sound all that unreasonable to me considering the scale of the crisis

    If a quota system were introduce to determine numbers we'd probably be looking at at least twice that amount

    No it would be far more by the time the crisis ends. The solution is using spare private housing or bedrooms. Not pushing 30-50k people into waiting lists, or the private rental sector.


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  • #952
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    It's really not like.

    There is 60,000 people long term unemployed in this country who are capable of working.

    We are able to fund their lifestyle, surely 5 thousand people who are fleeing for their lives isn't gonna be that much a strain.

    We have a housing crisis. We could do this if house owners chip in. That's what happened in Iceland. I see no such petition (not to leave people in but to offer a bedroom) in Ireland.


  • #953
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    FortySeven wrote:
    Personally, if I were all powerful.

    FortySeven wrote:
    Put the country on a military footing. Commandeer all religious buildings and create secure temporary accomodation in them, (religion has had centuries of money out of this country, time to give some back)

    FortySeven wrote:
    Put anyone who has been on the dole for more than 3 years to work, renovating the ghost estates littering the country to create real homes. Use them to ease the social housing crisis.

    FortySeven wrote:
    Stop paying the bondholders and instead target the money for urban and rural regeneration schemes and give the migrants work within those schemes and tax their incomes.

    FortySeven wrote:
    Personally, if I were all powerful.

    FortySeven wrote:
    Put the country on a military footing. Commandeer all religious buildings and create secure temporary accomodation in them, (religion has had centuries of money out of this country, time to give some back)

    FortySeven wrote:
    Put anyone who has been on the dole for more than 3 years to work, renovating the ghost estates littering the country to create real homes. Use them to ease the social housing crisis.

    FortySeven wrote:
    Stop paying the bondholders and instead target the money for urban and rural regeneration schemes and give the migrants work within those schemes and tax their incomes.

    FortySeven wrote:
    Personally, if I were all powerful.

    FortySeven wrote:
    Put the country on a military footing. Commandeer all religious buildings and create secure temporary accomodation in them, (religion has had centuries of money out of this country, time to give some back)

    FortySeven wrote:
    Put anyone who has been on the dole for more than 3 years to work, renovating the ghost estates littering the country to create real homes. Use them to ease the social housing crisis.

    FortySeven wrote:
    Stop paying the bondholders and instead target the money for urban and rural regeneration schemes and give the migrants work within those schemes and tax their incomes.

    FortySeven wrote:
    Put a temporary 'ignore' on unions and force civil servants to work at the pace the rest of us do to process all claims and teach all children who need it. Also remove the monthly hotel breaks loosely disguised as 'training' for civil servants. (A few million here alone)

    FortySeven wrote:
    Audit all charities and revoke the licences of those that contribute less than 90% of donations to the cause. Seize the bank accounts of the worst offenders.

    FortySeven wrote:
    Enforce our 12.5% corporate tax rate and use the money to compulsory purchase all privately let homes and put half of them on the market to stop the few profiteering from a housing shortage, rent problem solved.

    FortySeven wrote:
    Offer a government mortgage scheme to take away the stranglehold of the banks on our economy.

    FortySeven wrote:
    Remove lifetime benefits across the board. Keep a social safety net but stop subsidising gob****ery.

    FortySeven wrote:
    In short, make the country work for the people, not the takers. If we had a society such as this we would not have the worry about a COUNTRY being abble to accomodate a few extra people.


    Thats the kind of country I'd like to live in. Unfortunately, that is never going to happen even if you do become all powerful.

    What I dont understand is how we can just take in and house 5000 people, when we have families already homeless here.

    Yes people are going to say our homeless dont have it as bad as the refugees but our homeless pay taxs here all there lives, surley they should be a priority to house?

    I am not racist. Just think these people shouldn't be housed and payed for whilst doing nothing in return. Give em 2 years in a hostel, if they haven't learned English an got a job by then they should be sent straight back to Syria.


  • #954
    BoJack Horseman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,247 ✭✭✭✭BoJack Horseman


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    No it would be far more by the time the crisis ends. The solution is using spare private housing or bedrooms. Not pushing 30-50k people into waiting lists, or the private rental sector.

    Essentially a national room database.

    Census data would be too out of date.


  • #955
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    It's really not like.

    There is 60,000 people long term unemployed in this country who are capable of working.

    We are able to fund their lifestyle, surely 5 thousand people who are fleeing for their lives isn't gonna be that much a strain.

    See the highlighted bit, what level of training and education will be needed to have the migrants ready for the workforce, sure some will have reasonable English but many will have little or no formal education.

    Let's be realistic, once they are here they won't return home ever, despite some who suggest otherwise.


  • #956
    JustTheOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,681 ✭✭✭JustTheOne


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    We have a housing crisis. We could do this if house owners chip in. That's what happened in Iceland. I see no such petition (not to leave people in but to offer a bedroom) in Ireland.

    We already have refugees living in mobile
    homes, I'm pretty sure the Syrians wouldn't mind living in one of these. Sure beats fleeing from isis on a boat and drowning.

    The idea is when hopefully the war does steps are taken to send them back home.


  • #957
    ComfortKid
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭ComfortKid


    JustTheOne wrote:
    There is 60,000 people long term unemployed in this country who are capable of working.


    Who our government can't create employment for


  • #958
    My name is URL
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,626 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    No it would be far more by the time the crisis ends. The solution is using spare private housing or bedrooms. Not pushing 30-50k people into waiting lists, or the private rental sector.

    That's why Ireland should act now, commit to taking in a reasonable number of refugees. Before a quota system is introduced (which I believe is inevitable) and our hand forced due to being singled out for not doing enough.

    The longer the can is kicked down the road the bigger the problem is going to get. Not acting expeditiously is a mistake that's gonna come back and bite us.


  • #959
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    JustTheOne wrote: »
    We already have refugees living in mobile
    homes, I'm pretty sure the Syrians wouldn't mind living in one of these. Sure beats fleeing from isis on a boat and drowning.

    The idea is when hopefully the war does steps are taken to send them back home.

    Right. So when asked to stump up a bedroom, no dice? It's all liberalism until it costs.

    Massive camps of 40000 people in mobile homes would be a disaster.


  • #960
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    gandalf wrote: »
    Oh I am well aware of how politics work in this country.

    Again someone asked the question and I produced an answer.

    Taking in a number like 5000 would be possible if there is a political will and people actually look beyond the nimbyism and lets be honest racism.

    The Political will to take-in 5,000 is there in spades.

    There is not a Mainstream Political Figure who would not lap-up the positive vibe attached to being seen to "Do the right thing".

    However,just as with life itself,it's never as simple as it first seems.

    Photo's of Children suffering due to the mistakes and misdeeds of Adults have been with us since the dawn of photography,and before that the War Artists.

    Every Haunting Image,for all it's gut-wrenching reality,in our Hi-Definition world,remains there only by the gift of the media,until a new image comes along to better it.

    Those with long memories may well recall the last organized Mass Refugee influx into this State,which involved large numbers of our own,Northern Irish people fleeing the pogroms in their corner of Ireland.

    Many of these people had fled with nothing,except the clothes on their back,many more were bereft of hope as well.....

    Back then,not all of that Refugee Programme went according to plan either,and this time will be no different.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • #961
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    My name is URL wrote: »
    That's why Ireland should act now, commit to taking in a reasonable number of refugees. Before a quota system is introduced (which I believe is inevitable) and our hand forced due to being singled out for not doing enough.

    The longer the can is kicked down the road the bigger the problem is going to get. Not acting expeditiously is a mistake that's gonna come back and bite us.

    You didn't answer where they are going.

    I think we have to, morally, take in 40k or so. Over the next two years. We have housing for that but private and second home owners need to step up.

    Like Iceland.


This discussion has been closed.
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