"Haunting Image Of Drowned Boy Sums Up Consequences Of 'The Syrian War'"

fret_wimp2 · 03-09-2015 05:25PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No, you're spot on.

What's making me snigger is people on Facebook etc are coming out saying how its a disgrace and how this photo will have to be explained to our Grandchildren.

Well here the big bit. About 11million children per year die of preventable causes.

But hey, people only woke up yesterday and once that problem is fixed we can all sleep in the knowledge that we reduced this toooooo about hmmm 10.7million..

Great Stuff.

300k people not dying un-necessarily is a hell of a victory IMO.
Sure its not resolved by a long shot but its a step in the right direction.

You should read up on the 1% rule, used in training a lot but just as applicable. Save 100k here, 50k there, 200k somewhere else, before long the problem is a whole lot smaller. Aggregation of marginal gains.

http://jamesclear.com/marginal-gains

03-09-2015 05:26PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No, you're spot on.

What's making me snigger is people on Facebook etc are coming out saying how its a disgrace and how this photo will have to be explained to our Grandchildren.

Well here the big bit. About 11million children per year die of preventable causes.

But hey, people only woke up yesterday and once that problem is fixed we can all sleep in the knowledge that we reduced this toooooo about hmmm 10.7million..

Great Stuff.

So...that means the photo, and the death of this little child, is not a disgrace?

Or that we need to show the same reaction to the deaths of each of the 11 million or our reaction to this is somehow invalid?

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Great Stuff.

Is it? Does you get to snigger every time someone highlights a particular plight or incident or case? Your neighbour dies in a a car accident "...snigger....millions die in cars every year folks...great stuff"?

The_Kew_Tour · 03-09-2015 05:29PM

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

300k people not dying un-necessarily is a hell of a victory IMO.
Sure its not resolved by a long shot but its a step in the right direction.

You should read up on the 1% rule, used in training a lot but just as applicable:

http://jamesclear.com/marginal-gains

Oh its a step in the right direction. It's a huge sum of people.

The question I'm interested to have answered is this

Why have people only got all guilty and off their backside since yesterday? Why aint anything been done for decades?

Why? I kinda know the answer, but its kinda better hearing the excuses.

WakeUp · 03-09-2015 05:30PM

Jinonatron wrote: »

I feel sorry for the syrians. They should be given free houses by Britain and the US for there persistent destruction in the region.

Im curious. what about the large amount of sunni "rebels" and others who decided to rise up against Assad and have themselves a civil war. are they somehow blameless in all of this. Syrians decide to have themselves a civil war doest work out to well for them = Europes fault and Europes responsibility to pick up the pieces. or is it just Britain and the US you think responsible. the Syrians are a very divided people culturally and ethnically are all of them blameless? do Syrians take any responsibility for you know their civil war?...

the story of Syria is not that of a unified rebel army, acting on a popular mandate against an unsupported tyrant. Rather, it is the story of a multi-layered, kaleidoscopic civil war.

Of Syria’s myriad ethnic and religious elements—Salafis, Shias, Kurds, and secularists, to name a few—most, though certainly not all, wish to dispose of President Bashar al-Assad. But most factions, gripped by the constant fears of a post-Assad state, also wish to dispose of or at least disassociate themselves from one another. The once anti-autocratic rebellion, in other words, has devolved into an all-encompassing internecine war of ethnicities and ideologies. Through this devolution, the rebels have destroyed all prospects of a pluralistic, post-Assad democracy, rendering the West’s pro-resistance interventionist designs both unrealistic in their goals and immoral in their effects

To understand the fractionalization of Syria, one must first understand the nation’s demographics. Sunni Arabs, by far the largest ethno-religious group, make up approximately 65 percent of the population. The Kurds, non-Arab Sunnis with their own irredentist ambitions, compose eight percent of the total.

Though only representing 13 percent of the population, the Alawite sect of Shia Islam controls the state bureaucracy, almost in its entirety. Christians, accounting for 10 percent, compose the only other significant “ethnic group,” as small smatterings of Druze, Turkoman, and other obscure peoples fill the remainder.

The Sunni Arabs, the meat of the resistance, have been embittered about their relegation to second fiddle in civil society since the early 20th century. Though they had deprived Alawites of the most basic civil rights before World War I, the Alawites would turn the tables beginning in the 1920s through their complicity with the French counterinsurgency in the region

http://www.iop.harvard.edu/gangs-syria

The_Kew_Tour · 03-09-2015 05:31PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So...that means the photo, and the death of this little child, is not a disgrace?

Or that we need to show the same reaction to the deaths of each of the 11 million or our reaction to this is somehow invalid?

Is it? Does you get to snigger every time someone highlights a particular plight or incident or case? Your neighbour dies in a a car accident "...snigger....millions die in cars every year folks...great stuff"?

It's a disgrace, just like me seeing photos of dead children during kicking a football on the beach or going to the shop is a disgrace.

I snigger when I see a reaction to something that people over react to when it's too late. The child is dead, the poor soul.

Flippyfloppy · 03-09-2015 05:32PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I don't see why Europe has to take them in. Stop them at the border or at sea. Set up a camp outside of Europe and settle them all there. .

Oh yeah....great idea! Maybe the Syrian government will set up a camp?

Nermal · 03-09-2015 05:32PM

efb wrote: »

The selfish ones anyway

There are no flights to Australia from warzones, no land borders with warzones, and no warzones that are a leaky small boat ride away.

They are sensible enough to realise that anyone arriving claiming asylum is either an economic migrant, or not following the Dublin regulation. So they can all be considered illegal immigrants.

Their geographic position is exactly analogous to Ireland's, by the way. We should adopt the same policy.

Eugene Norman · 03-09-2015 05:33PM

WakeUp wrote: »

Im curious. what about the large amount of sunni "rebels" and others who decided to rise up against Assad and have themselves a civil war. are they somehow blameless in all of this. Syrians decide to have themselves a civil war doest work out to well for them = Europes fault and Europes responsibility to pick up the pieces. or is it just Britain and the US you think responsible. the Syrians are a very divided people culturally and ethnically are all of them blameless? do Syrians take any responsibility for you know their civil war?...

http://www.iop.harvard.edu/gangs-syria

There was a deliberate plan to destabilise Assad in the last 5 years.

20Cent · 03-09-2015 05:33PM

Nermal wrote: »

There are no flights to Australia from warzones, no land borders with warzones, and no warzones that are a leaky small boat ride away.

They are sensible enough to realise that anyone arriving claiming asylum is either an economic migrant, or not following the Dublin regulation. So they can all be considered illegal immigrants.

Their geographic position is exactly analogous to Ireland's, by the way. We should adopt the same policy.

Aren't all Australians except for the aborigines immigrants?

fret_wimp2 · 03-09-2015 05:34PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Oh its a step in the right direction. It's a huge sum of people.

The question I'm interested to have answered is this

Why have people only got all guilty and off their backside since yesterday? Why aint anything been done for decades?

Why? I kinda know the answer, but its kinda better hearing the excuses.

Because people are, well, people. If something happens long enough it becomes the status quo, just how it is, best of learn to deal with it.

Its a rare event that people actually stand up and decide to change things. Even if something is broken, if it doesnt affect us directly it simply falls to the wayside.

Pictures like the drowned child remind us in a powerful, relateable way that something is wrong. We see that these refugees are not just quoatas and numbers, but real men, women and children.

We need to be reminded again and again and again, with pictures & videos that makes the people human in our minds.

Thats just how people work. So we just have to deal with it, and use it.

BoJack Horseman · 03-09-2015 05:34PM

BBC are reporting that the EU commission are mulling over a 160,000 disbursement plan.

In context, this is 7 weeks worth of influx..... Ergo redundant by the time the fine details are agreed.

The scale of this is clearly lost on those at the top.

Eugene Norman · 03-09-2015 05:36PM

20Cent wrote: »

Aren't all Australians except for the aborigines immigrants?

Is a black Englishman born there an immigrant?

No.

WakeUp · 03-09-2015 05:37PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

There was a deliberate plan to destabilise Assad in the last 5 years.

perhaps so but a large portion of the Syrian people the sunnis in the main decided to rise up and start a civil war. the minorities the Christians and such they are hunkered down with Assad as they know if he falls well you can work that one out for yourself.

The_Kew_Tour · 03-09-2015 05:38PM

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Because people are, well, people. If something happens long enough it becomes the status quo, just how it is, best of learn to deal with it.

Its a rare event that people actually stand up and decide to change things. Even if something is broken, if it doesnt affect us directly it simply falls to the wayside.

Pictures like the drowned child remind us in a powerful, relateable way that something is wrong. We see that these refugees are not just quoatas and numbers, but real men, women and children.

We need to be reminded again and again and again, with pictures & videos that makes the people human in our minds.

Thats just how people work. So we just have to deal with it, and use it.

I agree with that mainly. Can't argue, but that does not mean they are right.

But I understand what you're saying.

Nermal · 03-09-2015 05:40PM

20Cent wrote: »

Aren't all Australians except for the aborigines immigrants?

No, they're the descendants of immigrants (as are the Aborigines). So?

20Cent · 03-09-2015 05:41PM

Nermal wrote: »

No, they're the descendants of immigrants (as are the Aborigines). So?

So their stance on immigration is a bit rich considering they're practically all immigrants or descended from them.

03-09-2015 05:46PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

It's a disgrace, just like me seeing photos of dead children during kicking a football on the beach or going to the shop is a disgrace.

I snigger when I see a reaction to something that people over react to when it's too late. The child is dead, the poor soul.

But that's simply the power of an image.

Sure, if I saw someone who was reacting in a way that seemed fake and wailing I might find it a bit much.

But just as the photo of the child in Sudan drew attention to that crisis, of people in concentration camps in the Balkans shocked the world, or of how one man standing before a tank in China drew a reaction, I think it can be a good thing. I don't think I'd say "the kids dead, the war has started, the Chinese have cracked down and that's that" or whatever and not react.

JONJO THE MISER · 03-09-2015 05:49PM

I love how it should be us white people to take all the refugees, what about South Korea and Japan, two of the worlds richest countries, i dont see people and the media telling them to take refugees.
Fifty-six Syrians have unsuccessfully applied for refugee status in Japan since the civil war broke out in 2011.

Nermal · 03-09-2015 05:50PM

20Cent wrote: »

So their stance on immigration is a bit rich considering they're practically all immigrants or descended from them.

So what? Doesn't mean they're obliged to maintain the same arrangements forever. They're happy with the society they have now built, and will share it only with a select number people they choose to, not whoever turns up, because that will be to their advantage. They're still compliant with relevant international treaties.

Irish Praetorian · 03-09-2015 05:51PM

Jinonatron wrote: »

I feel sorry for the Syrians. They should be given free houses by Britain and the US for their persistent destruction in the region.

Yeah because in an ethno-sectarian conflict between a pro-Shia regime under Assad backed by Iran and provided with weaponry by Russia, against a largely fundamentalist-Sunni rebel movement receiving funding and support from private citizens and governments in states across the Gulf Region (including but not limited to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the UAE) as well as receiving support and manpower from the Muslim communities in several European countries (including many of those now debating how many more refugees they will take in to enlarge those communities) most notably the UK, France, Belgium and Germany as well as incidental support from captured US weapons drops aimed at others and some formerly moderate US trained personnel, both of whom are hostile to a separatist Kurdish movement which is harassed and attacked by them and also by Turkey which up until recently had been turning a blind eye to the passage of men and material to ISIS, in a situation further complicated by the 'FSA' rebels who initially attracted the most attention and support from the 'West' but were subsequently sidelined, it's quite clear that everything is the fault of the US and if only that country would just up and disappear so we could all live in Utopia...

handlemaster · 03-09-2015 05:51PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No, you're spot on.

What's making me snigger is people on Facebook etc are coming out saying how its a disgrace and how this photo will have to be explained to our Grandchildren.

Well here the big bit. About 11million children per year die of preventable causes.

But hey, people only woke up yesterday and once that problem is fixed we can all sleep in the knowledge that we reduced this toooooo about hmmm 10.7million..

Great Stuff.

There comes a point when an event hits home we can be very removed from the suffering of others. Some I can see on here enjoy seeing the suffering from the comfort of Ireland. Continue to Snigger on ..

The_Kew_Tour · 03-09-2015 05:53PM

JONJO THE MISER wrote: »

I love how it should be us white people to take all the refugees, what about South Korea and Japan, two of the worlds richest countries, i dont see people and the media telling them to take refugees.

I do believe Ireland should help, it will, buts that's another matter, but I totally agree here.

I love the "Europe's Problem". It's a worldwide problem and America has bloody blood on its hands here too. IMO they should be the ones taking in the most.

The_Kew_Tour · 03-09-2015 05:55PM

handlemaster wrote: »

There comes a point when an event hits home we can be very removed from the suffering of others. Some I can see on here enjoy seeing the suffering from the comfort of Ireland. Continue to Snigger on ..

Of course you missed the points where I have totally sympathy for the kid.

Read what you like...

foggy_lad · 03-09-2015 05:55PM

efb wrote: »

Refugees don't get to enter Australia they are settled elsewhere.

It works for Australia, rather like Arabic states that bolt its doors firmly shut.

But how does it help refugees???

The refugees are settled in a poor region which is safe and a place where they will get the most basic housing and be eligible for basic health and welfare entitlements paid by the Australian government by way of trade benefits etc.

They are not bankrolled in attempts to make money or start businesses and will never be allowed into Australia.

It would be like Ireland putting all migrants onto Achill Island and other offshore islands and giving them prefabricated basic homes to live in but never allowing them onto the mainland.

JONJO THE MISER · 03-09-2015 05:59PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I do believe Ireland should help, it will, buts that's another matter, but I totally agree here.

I love the "Europe's Problem". It's a worldwide problem and America has bloody blood on its hands here too. IMO they should be the ones taking in the most.

Oh i think we should help the Syrians too and reject claims from countries such as Nigeria and Pakistan.
But as you say the U.S is the cause of this and they should be taking the burnt of it.
I was always pro american but im becoming sick of there policies around the world now.

BoJack Horseman · 03-09-2015 06:07PM

Further to Merkel/Holland's latest finger-in-the-dyke-plan, apparently Ireland, the UK & Denmark have an opt out of compulsory quota.

foggy_lad · 03-09-2015 06:08PM

handlemaster wrote: »

There comes a point when an event hits home we can be very removed from the suffering of others. Some I can see on here enjoy seeing the suffering from the comfort of Ireland. Continue to Snigger on ..

Ah here FFS, I lose interest in what people are posting when they come out with this kind of nonsense.

People posting in this vein really have lost their argument and are at risk of losing their grip on reality, I immediately think of Dougal.

Edit; just seen the start of the news and seen a clip of Inda Kenny in Paris doing a fine job, the poor eejit is almost in tears talking about this poor child's death, he must be looking for an Oscar as well as re-election!

conorhal · 03-09-2015 06:12PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Further to Merkel/Holland's latest finger-in-the-dyke-plan, apparently Ireland, the UK & Denmark have an opt out of compulsory quota.

Yesh, but our quesling government is about to shred that opt out and agree to quotas, which is utter madness.
Even Labour UK loon Evette Cooper managed to make the obvious point last night that the only sensible policy is to go to your local authorities and county counsels and ask them how many refugees they can accommodate.

That is the number of refugees you can accept, not whatever back of the envelope percentage that Germany comes up with after creating this crisis in the first place. Although as the third biggest arms eporter in Europe, they can pay for their own mistakes as far as I'm concerned.

Gatling · 03-09-2015 06:13PM

Seems Holland now plans to remove failed asylum seeker from state shelters and will stop any funding to organisations who help them

snubbleste · 03-09-2015 06:13PM

So after his family were refused legtimate passage to Canada. He skips the queue purely because of publicity and a media storm

the Canadian government had refused the family's application for refugee status.
Abdullah Kurdi said Canadian officials have now offered him citizenship after seeing what happened. But he declined.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/syria-migrants-canada-drowned-migrants-1.3213772

"Haunting Image Of Drowned Boy Sums Up Consequences Of 'The Syrian War'"

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