"Haunting Image Of Drowned Boy Sums Up Consequences Of 'The Syrian War'"

snubbleste · 03-09-2015 01:13PM

https://twitter.com/jenanmoussa/status/639389218511257600

Nodin · 03-09-2015 01:13PM

mfceiling wrote: »

News saying that they had been refused visas for Canada so decided to get there illegally. Why did they decide to illegally enter Canada and not stay in Turkey? Surely they knew there was a huge risk in doing this.

Because
They
Were
Kurds.

Biffo The Bare · 03-09-2015 01:14PM

Nodin wrote: »

You realise Kurds are persecuted in Turkey?

Wrong.
They are a fifth of the population of Turkey. They have equal rights within Turkey according to Turkish law.

FelineOverLord · 03-09-2015 01:19PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Go find out.

But seeing as the vast majority of adults residing here happen to be Irish, I'd hazard a guess that the majority of job applications emailed around every day are probably from an Irish jobseeker.

Ah, so you got caught throwing baseless accusations around.:D Lots of assumptions on your part, you don't know what the numbers are so you'll just make it up to fit your argument.;)

BoJack Horseman · 03-09-2015 01:22PM

FelineOverLord wrote: »

Ah, so you got caught throwing baseless accusations around.:D Lots of assumptions on your part, you don't know what the numbers are so you'll just make it up to fit your argument.;)

Baseless?

I suggested you not sh*t on the Irish unemployed.
I don't know anyone turning their noses up at retail work.

I still encourage you to not be do sweepingly disparaging towards Irish people.
And if you can, tie this into the for vast inward population transfers from the ME?

Nodin · 03-09-2015 01:22PM

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Wrong.
They are a fifth of the population of Turkey. They have equal rights within Turkey according to Turkish law.

Yeah, so had American African Americans after the civil war, in theory.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/07/30/dispatches-amid-rising-tensions-dangerous-moment-rights-turkey

This wasn't that long ago either

https://books.google.ie/books?id=Pyz9fz6il38C&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=turkey+disappears+kurds&source=bl&ots=5WBqWUd01V&sig=BG8BZAWfSM8mdTwcCAz9Ab8aOyY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBmoVChMI0pmBie3axwIVxj0aCh3PxwMS#v=onepage&q=turkey%20disappears%20kurds&f=false

http://formena.org/en/articles/remembering-the-forgotten-the-saturday-mothers-and-turkeys-disappeared-kurds-796757

mfceiling · 03-09-2015 01:23PM

Nodin wrote: »

Because
They
Were
Kurds.

But even so, would it not be safer there than on a small boat heading across the ocean to Canada?

SEPT 23 1989 · 03-09-2015 01:23PM

I think most people are deeply upset watching these images unfold but on the other hand are very worried about what walks amongst these migrants heading through Europe

Nodin · 03-09-2015 01:26PM

mfceiling wrote: »

But even so, would it not be safer there than on a small boat heading across the ocean to Canada?

They were going to Greece, and presumably going to try elsewhere from there. A few hours in a boat vs years in Turkey?

ThisRegard · 03-09-2015 01:26PM

Describing these people as Migrants is doing a massive disservice to most of them. They're refugees.

ComfortKid · 03-09-2015 01:26PM

Why is everyone so outraged when these people try to escape their war torn countries, but I don't see many threads with this level of outrage about the wars themselves. Children are getting blown up in Syria every day for the last 4 years.

Nodin · 03-09-2015 01:28PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

I think most people are deeply upset watching these images unfold but on the other hand are very worried about what walks amongst these migrants heading through Europe

Absolutely.

ComfortKid · 03-09-2015 01:29PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote:

I think most people are deeply upset watching these images unfold but on the other hand are very worried about what walks amongst these migrants heading through Europe

Spot on. For all we know we could be inviting members of ISIS in with open arms.

Didn't they say they would get in to Europe as refugees.

I know most are probably genuinely escaping war but we should be very cautious and not cry to let them all in because we saw a dead child

WakeUp · 03-09-2015 01:29PM

conorhal wrote: »

These people bypass refugee camps, in fact the actively avoid them to ensure that they are not documented on their econimic migration west. What makes you think accepting people fome refugee camps will make a dent in the numbers crossing the Med?

genuine refugees should be helped I dont think anyone is disputing that. but that isnt the problem the problem is the chancers and the economic citizenship shoppers. those people and the people smugglers are making the situation worse for people genuinely fleeing and in need of help. and they all cant come here no matter how emotional people want to get or feel about it. when dealing with a situation of this magnitude reality trumps emotion. Im afraid thats just how it is.

The reality is that the Middle East region needs to create 100 million jobs by 2020 in order to meet the employment needs of populations that have quadrupled since 1960: Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi, UAE, Syria, and Yemen have all seen stratospheric population explosions. It is a similar situation in Libya, Morocco, Algeria, and Ethiopia.

Iran has gone from 22 million in 1960 to 80 million today. Iraq has gone from 7 million to 33 million; Jordan has gone from 84,000 to 8 million; Yemen from 5 million to 24 million; Kuwait from 250,000 to 3.4 million; Libya from 1.4 million to 6 million; Syria from 4.6 million to 23 million. These are huge increases in population in a very short space of time: only 55 years, less than two generations.

By contrast, Britain has gone from 53 million to 64 million in this time frame. The kind of population growths in the ME would equate to the British population currently being 200 million.

Imagine Britain with 200 million people, 147 million of those having been born since the 60s, because that is what we are talking about here when it comes to the equivalent population pressure on many ME and African countries.

There is no way that the ME will be able to create enough employment and infrastructure to deal with this population crisis, so there are going to be huge numbers of Middle Eastern and African young men who will stand no chance of reasonable employment, and no chance of marrying or starting families.

When this situation occurs, young men do one of two things: they fight or they migrate.

And that fight tends to last until the population decreases to the extent where the remaining population has reasonable access to resources -- to be blunt, where every young man feels he can make a reasonable living, get married and support children.

This is why many Middle Eastern observers are predicting that we are seeing the start of a "30 years war" in the ME. That, coupled with an employment crisis in Africa and the Middle East, means that these refugee and economic migrant flows are only going to worsen.

And I haven't even mentioned the impact of current oil prices on social budgets in Gulf countries. Saudi is about ten years off being broke. The impact of that will be explosive.

We are naive to think that the West can stop this process, and we are foolish to think that we can absorb even a fifth of the future migrants that will come knocking at Europe's door without descending into civil unrest and even pan-European war.

We need to start being practical now. Refugee or asylum status needs to be temporary, and linked to recognised civil conflict in the foreign national's country. Schengen will have to go. The EU will have to pour money into administrating its borders. If Britain wants to remain in the EU, free movement rules will need to be linked to an actual offer of work, EU workers will need to prove they have sufficient funds to cover living costs for their families, and all welfare systems will need to align, which inevitably means Britain moves to a more actuarial welfare system.

BoJack Horseman · 03-09-2015 01:30PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Describing these people as Migrants is doing a massive disservice to most of them. They're refugees.

Upon review, 82% of asylum applications are rejected.

Stats cast doubt on your statement.

SEPT 23 1989 · 03-09-2015 01:30PM

Nodin wrote: »

Absolutely.

you don't think any terrorists are using this as perfect cover Nodin?

professore · 03-09-2015 01:32PM

ComfortKid wrote: »

Spot on. For all we know we could be inviting members of ISIS in with open arms.

Didn't they say they would get in to Europe as refugees.

I know most are probably genuinely escaping war but we should be very cautious and not cry to let them all in because we saw a dead child

Lots of ISIS are EU citizens, so they can just book a flight here and stay as long as they like - or are already living here. Also ISIS have lots of money so wouldn't be bothered sending across people in rickety boats. By that logic no-one should get social welfare here because there will be some that are not entitled to it. Also no Irish should be allowed into the UK because one of us might be in the IRA.

professore · 03-09-2015 01:33PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Upon review, 82% of asylum applications are rejected.

Stats cast doubt on your statement.

Hardly an open door policy then.

ThisRegard · 03-09-2015 01:34PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Upon review, 82% of asylum applications are rejected.

Stats cast doubt on your statement.

Rejected from where?

Anyone leaving Syria, particularly those with families, are doing it for all the right reasons.

AudreyHepburn · 03-09-2015 01:34PM

tonycascarino wrote: »

There is absolutely nothing scary about what I said. Just not a completely naive fool as to what's happening. Is my attitude scary because it differs from your opinion? Sure there are genuine refugees but there are also many 'refugees' chancing their arm.

Don't insult both our intelligence with this rubbish. You know that's not why it's frightening.

It's frightening because it's bordering on racism and deliberately ignores the fact the vast majority of these migrants are in fact innocent people fleeing in fear for their lives.

Nodin · 03-09-2015 01:39PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

you don't think any terrorists are using this as perfect cover Nodin?

Some might, but it would be a lot easier to recruit some half eejit already living here, or send over people in a higher socio-economic status, like the Twin Tower attackers. Far less scrutiny, more ease of movement etc.

ComfortKid · 03-09-2015 01:39PM

FelineOverLord wrote:

Ah, so you got caught throwing baseless accusations around. Lots of assumptions on your part, you don't know what the numbers are so you'll just make it up to fit your argument.

You're the one throwing basless accusations around.

Can you prove that Irish people don't want to work?

ComfortKid · 03-09-2015 01:42PM

professore wrote:

Lots of ISIS are EU citizens, so they can just book a flight here and stay as long as they like - or are already living here. Also ISIS have lots of money so wouldn't be bothered sending across people in rickety boats. By that logic no-one should get social welfare here because there will be some that are not entitled to it. Also no Irish should be allowed into the UK because one of us might be in the IRA.

Did I say none of them should be let in? No! I said we should be very cautious! I also said the vast majority are genuine refugees so please learn to read.

eviltimeban · 03-09-2015 01:42PM

ComfortKid wrote: »

You're the one throwing basless accusations around.

Can you prove that Irish people don't want to work?

REALLY getting off track now.

ComfortKid · 03-09-2015 01:43PM

eviltimeban wrote:

REALLY getting off track now.

It went off track after page 1. Why quote me?

BoJack Horseman · 03-09-2015 01:44PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Rejected from where?Anyone leaving Syria, particularly those with families, are doing it for all the right reasons.

From everywhere I assume.

The biggest jump in asylum applications was from Ukraine (from a low base)
... Obviously we know there is a war there.

Syria, Afghanistan, Eritrea, Niger, Mali, Yemen.

All at war.....

But not necessarily asylum seekers.

And don't forget kids, Ireland is much less forgiving with a 92% decline rate.

foggy_lad · 03-09-2015 01:44PM

Well things have taken a far more sinister turn now in Hungary.

The authorities allowed the refugees to board a train that was heading towards the border with Austria but before it got near the border it was stopped and the refugees were told to leave the train and they were to be brought to a refugee camp, They seem to have declined this offer of a place of safety and security and began shouting "NO CAMP", "NO CAMP" and have been involved in scuffles with police.

These people are not genuine refugees or asylum seekers and should be deported back to Libya/Turkey/Afghanistan.

AudreyHepburn · 03-09-2015 01:46PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Well things have taken a far more sinister turn now in Hungary.

The authorities allowed the refugees to board a train that was heading towards the border with Austria but before it got near the border it was stopped and the refugees were told to leave the train and they were to be brought to a refugee camp, They seem to have declined this offer of a place of safety and security and began shouting "NO CAMP", "NO CAMP" and have been involved in scuffles with police.

These people are not genuine refugees or asylum seekers and should be deported back to Libya/Turkey/Afghanistan.

Have you proof to back up this statement?

Nothing sinister there, I'm sure they just don't want to be locked up which is understandable after all they've been through.

ComfortKid · 03-09-2015 01:47PM

foggy_lad wrote:

These people are not genuine refugees or asylum seekers and should be deported back to Libya/Turkey/Afghanistan.

The majority of people on this thread will give them a bed.

professore · 03-09-2015 01:48PM

ComfortKid wrote: »

Did I say none of them should be let in? No! I said we should be very cautious! I also said the vast majority are genuine refugees so please learn to read.

I can read thanks - the lines themselves and between them, where you like to impart the most meaning. I see your lovely personality shining through. Also I couldn't find anything you posted referring to the vast majority being genuine refugees, or maybe the Boards search is not working.

"Haunting Image Of Drowned Boy Sums Up Consequences Of 'The Syrian War'"

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