Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

molloyjh · 03-09-2015 08:59AM

Buer wrote: »

Yup. He's going to be a tired boy but he'll also be absolutely match fit if they manage his game time. He only played 50 minutes in his first match and 60 in the second. If they match that tomorrow, I don't think it's unreasonable that he goes to England with about 160-170 minutes under his belt which is pretty solid for a prop.

They'll absolutely have to use either Furlong or Healy to start one of our pool openers though.

I'm not sure that will happen given the talk around Healy. I think we might be looking at McGrath starting all 4 pool games and then Healy taking over the starting berth in the knock-outs.

awec · 03-09-2015 09:08AM

If Healy can't play this weekend then this selection in the squad is just crazy.

Unless the plan is to replace him in the squad early if he isn't fully fixed.

phog · 03-09-2015 09:14AM

awec wrote: »

If Healy can't play this weekend then this selection in the squad is just crazy.

Unless the plan is to replace him in the squad early if he isn't fully fixed.

He could play against the minnows to get match fit but then might be expected to play a part in all our world cup games.

vienne86 · 03-09-2015 09:16AM

awec wrote: »

If Healy can't play this weekend then this selection in the squad is just crazy.

Unless the plan is to replace him in the squad early if he isn't fully fixed.

I'm inclined to agree with you that it seems crazy for him to be included in the squad if he still can't play. We'll see. I hope Furlong survives Twickenham OK. Big ask.

rrpc · 03-09-2015 09:23AM

connachta wrote: »

consistency is measured by quality of the minutes played.

And Trimble put in a very good shift before he came off injured. You're shifting the goal posts so much, you've lost sight of where you started off. :rolleyes:

You quoted Joe Schmidt as saying that Cave's performances at training and the Millennium Stadium coupled with the fact that he's a specialist 12/13 gave him the nod and extrapolated that to the point where consistent performances in warm ups were the only reason for selection despite the fact that Cave and Trimble only played that one match and Trimble was dropped for inconsistency and Cave was selected?

connachta wrote: »

Schmidt could have taken the risk of bringing Moore if Furlong didn't played a really good 30-min shift

Moore was injured, Trimble was injured, both were not selected and yet you can't seem to find the common denominator?

aimee1 · 03-09-2015 10:10AM

awec wrote: »

If Healy can't play this weekend then this selection in the squad is just crazy.

Unless the plan is to replace him in the squad early if he isn't fully fixed.

I dont know if it is crazy. I dont think he would be selected unless it was felt he was going to be available to play on sept 19 v canada. I reckon he will start a few of those games too to help his match fitness and bench against italy. I think we need him from the start against france.

irishbucsfan · 03-09-2015 10:29AM

connachta wrote: »

consistency is measured by quality of the minutes played.
Schmidt could have taken the risk of bringing Moore if Furlong didn't played a really good 30-min shift

Furlong was brought to give us cover at loosehead. Furlong didn't play loosehead in a single game but supposedly did well there in training. Meanwhile Bent played well at tighthead when given opportunities and was left behind. I think that tells you all you need to know about the importance of training.

connachta · 03-09-2015 10:38AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Furlong was brought to give us cover at loosehead. Furlong didn't play loosehead in a single game but supposedly did well there in training. Meanwhile Bent played well at tighthead when given opportunities and was left behind. I think that tells you all you need to know about the importance of training.

You don't know at all how much Furlong game as TH counted, and if it was more or less decisive than his trainning as LH potential cover

phog · 03-09-2015 10:48AM

aimee1 wrote: »

I dont know if it is crazy. I dont think he would be selected unless it was felt he was going to be available to play on sept 19 v canada. I reckon he will start a few of those games too to help his match fitness and bench against italy. I think we need him from the start against france.

So he plays v Canada which hardly be the full 80, he'll need time v Romania and then you'd imagine it's going to be full tilt from then until we win or are knocked out of the tournament. Can he survive that schedule with no rugby played recently - when did last play a game of rugby?

irishbucsfan · 03-09-2015 10:57AM

connachta wrote: »

You don't know at all how much Furlong game as TH counted, and if it was more or less decisive than his trainning as LH potential cover

He was brought as LH cover. I'd imagine the quality of his play at LH was fairly important...

connachta · 03-09-2015 11:01AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He was brought as LH cover.

Schmidt would have put him on the bench as LH and not TH against Wales if it was the priority

Noopti · 03-09-2015 11:02AM

Yeah, I would guess that they have had him going up against Ross in full on training at LH.

Obviously you can't replicate the nerves/atmosphere of a big match - but obviously the coaching team are confident in his technical abilities to do a job there. And I imagine that job is simply to be "steady".

03-09-2015 11:03AM

I'd say Healy *could* start this weekend but first game back against the English pack might be inviting trouble.

I fully expect him to start against Canada and Romania and then bench against Italy before starting against France.

His fitness should be fine which has previously been his problem coming back from injury. How he will get his power upto scratch having had limited use of one of his arms is beyond me however.

total former · 03-09-2015 11:09AM

connachta wrote: »

Schmidt would have put him on the bench as LH and not TH against Wales if it was the priority

Maybe Kilcoyne was still in the mix at that point, but his performance in that match killed off his chances?

Which again emphasises the point that performances in the warm-ups and in training were key to Joe's thinking, and performances for the provinces in their pre-season games meant nothing.

irishbucsfan · 03-09-2015 11:14AM

connachta wrote: »

Schmidt would have put him on the bench as LH and not TH against Wales if it was the priority

You're performing mental gymnastics here to escape the reality that training is vitally important. I have no idea why.

Michael Bent has played loose head and tight head at elite levels. He played loose head in the Champions Cup last season and played tight head in these warmups.

Furlong had never played a single minute of senior rugby at loose head. Schmidt has coached him the majority of his career but never even looked at him there during a game. Yet in the biggest squad selection of his life Schmidt chose Furlong over Bent and specifically said in the press conference it has based on what he had done at loose head in training with Feek. That decision was clearly based on what happened on the training field.

pickarooney · 03-09-2015 11:35AM

I would prefer to have Healy play 60 minutes in Twickenham and if he's not fully recovered axe him and bring Kilcoyne.

Clearlier · 03-09-2015 11:50AM

pickarooney wrote: »

I would prefer to have Healy play 60 minutes in Twickenham and if he's not fully recovered axe him and bring Kilcoyne.

I wouldn't. My perception is that the gap between Healy and Kilcoyne is pretty big, I'd sooner have McGrath as the mainstay and take what Healy can offer even if it's less than what would be ideal than to dump Healy much less by putting him in a situation I didn't think that he could handle.

smiley_face · 03-09-2015 12:01PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

You're performing mental gymnastics here to escape the reality that training is vitally important. I have no idea why.

Michael Bent has played loose head and tight head at elite levels. He played loose head in the Champions Cup last season and played tight head in these warmups.

Furlong had never played a single minute of senior rugby at loose head. Schmidt has coached him the majority of his career but never even looked at him there during a game. Yet in the biggest squad selection of his life Schmidt chose Furlong over Bent and specifically said in the press conference it has based on what he had done at loose head in training with Feek. That decision was clearly based on what happened on the training field.

Clearly matches and training are both important to selection.
The issue was that some posters were claiming that the matches were completely irrelevant towards selection.

total former · 03-09-2015 12:05PM

smiley_face wrote: »

Clearly matches and training are both important to selection.
The issue was that some posters were claiming that the matches were completely irrelevant towards selection.

No, they didn't.

smiley_face · 03-09-2015 12:05PM

rrpc wrote: »

And Trimble put in a very good shift before he came off injured. You're shifting the goal posts so much, you've lost sight of where you started off. :rolleyes:

You quoted Joe Schmidt as saying that Cave's performances at training and the Millennium Stadium coupled with the fact that he's a specialist 12/13 gave him the nod and extrapolated that to the point where consistent performances in warm ups were the only reason for selection despite the fact that Cave and Trimble only played that one match and Trimble was dropped for inconsistency and Cave was selected?
Moore was injured, Trimble was injured, both were not selected and yet you can't seem to find the common denominator?

And Healy was injured so that upsets your common denominator.

It's not all about training only, obviously it's training and matches and past performances and attitude, all of those thing count to selection, not just training and past performances.

smiley_face · 03-09-2015 12:06PM

total former wrote: »

No, they didn't.

Already posted a few pages back a direct quote from one poster, don't intend on going back and finding more, but yes they did.

smiley_face · 03-09-2015 12:10PM

total former wrote: »

No, they didn't.

Whatever, do you not agree though that the matches were relevant?

total former · 03-09-2015 12:13PM

smiley_face wrote: »

Already posted a few pages back a direct quote from one poster, don't intend on going back and finding more, but yes they did.

No, the direct quote that was posted was shown to be referring to the provinces' warm-up games.

I've been saying all along that the Ireland warm-up games were of relevance.

rrpc · 03-09-2015 12:14PM

smiley_face wrote: »

Clearly matches and training are both important to selection.
The issue was that some posters were claiming that the matches were completely irrelevant towards selection.

One quote was produced to make that claim:

Really though ? Does it actually work like that. That one player in a mix and gatherem team, against a hodge podge weak experimental team, could be compared to another player in a different team, against different equally hodge podge opposition, with any significant bearing on the final squad selection seems bizarre.
If places really are up for grabs and are genuinely influenced by erformance in these games, it strikes me as very amateur hour management. And I dont believe we have that

I don't see the phrase 'completely irrelevant' or 'mickey mouse' in that quote.

And the 'proof' provided was a quote from Joe Schmidt which gave three reasons for picking Cave; one of which was that he went well in one warm up match.

smiley_face · 03-09-2015 12:15PM

total former wrote: »

No, the direct quote that was posted was shown to be referring to the provinces' warm-up games.

I've been saying all along that the Ireland warm-up games were of relevance.

Great, then I think that settles the point.
(You may be referring to a different quote, the one I posted was definitely referring to the International matches.)

smiley_face · 03-09-2015 12:19PM

rrpc wrote: »

One quote was produced to make that claim:

I don't see the phrase 'completely irrelevant' or 'mickey mouse' in that quote.

And the 'proof' provided was a quote from Joe Schmidt which gave three reasons for picking Cave; one of which was that he went well in one warm up match.

You would have to go back and read all the comments, I'm not interested in it myself. I'm not going to get dragged into a semantical argument about what people meant. Make your own judgement as to what they meant.

The Pheasant2 · 03-09-2015 12:42PM

Team announcement today?

aedanknight · 03-09-2015 12:49PM

Sorry is this isn't the right place to post. I'm going to the game Saturday, after the game I was hoping to watch the Dublin Mayo game at 17:00. Does anyone know if any pubs in Twickeneham will be showing this, unfortunately I've noticed this will clash with an England Euro 2016 game. Any chances of getting the GAA anywhere??

smiley_face · 03-09-2015 12:51PM

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Team announcement today?

It's on the IRFU website as below:

IRELAND: Team to be announced on Thursday (1.45pm)

connachta · 03-09-2015 12:54PM

total former wrote: »

Maybe Kilcoyne was still in the mix at that point, but his performance in that match killed off his chances?

Yeah so games did count:D:D (not provincial ones, the debate was about if international friendlies mattered or not)

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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