Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Are the provinces supposed to just conjure scrum halves out of thin air? I don't see what Munster could have done to make Sheridan or Williams any better than they are for example, I wouldn't blame Munster.

The provinces exist to develop players, perhaps, we've been lucky with Stringer, Murray, Reddan, TOL & Boss all being international standard and maybe we'll have to settle for less for a while.

James Hart could have been given an opportunity perhaps. As a 9 who covers 10 and kicks goals he might have been a handy RWC squad player. When he is out of contract in 2017 I think the provinces will show interest.

Murray is considerably ahead of his chasers but that is equally a testament to his own ability.

Buer wrote: »

Such is life. We've only one guy who we could really count on at inside centre. Cave only ever started a couple of low level internationals there.

We've only 4 provinces, we're never going to be able to have great depth in specialist positions. At 2, 9, 10 and 12 we've only got 2-3 lads who can realistically play there in a big test match at this point.

This is not the case. Luke Marshall is a better 12 than Cave. McCloskey is a better 12 than Cave. Olding is a better 12 than Cave. Cave is adept enough at 12 being a big enough guy and he is exceptional at 13 for Ulster. I think he has been selected because he can do both jobs. We have also lost a few guys to other leagues who might have developed into high class centres if they had stayed here. Ian Whitten for example. Reid at Leinster has always looked to me to have a bit of class. Farrell in France is a very good player. It's not that we don't have the players, rather there is a log jam at 12 at Ravenspan.

Utah_Saint wrote: »

I def think ulster could have done more to utilise Ruan to develop a top quality Scrum Half...

Outside of Ruan ulster probably have the worst Scrum Half options

Yes but when Pienaar was signed it was envisaged that it would be him and Boss. Marshall's contract was not being renewed. It was hoped that Ian Porter would develop as he looked promising and was at the time an excellent goal kicker.

I would that Ulster would be trying to tempt Hart back to Ireland. he is certainly better than Marshall and Shanahan. Apparently they have to cut the grass extra short when Shanahan is playing so he doesn't get lost.:D

Is it in the managements thinking to start Healy against Canada or Romania I wonder? He badly needs game time before Italy/France I would have thought?

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Disagree..

A tight-head can typically play loose head without much difficulty in terms of scrummaging. The pressures are greatly reduced on the LH side compared to TH so it's actually quite easy..TBH moving from Right to Left in the scrum is actually like a little holiday!!

Tight-heads are almost universally larger , squarer and less mobile than L/H's- It's the nature of the position..

And that's one of the reasons they don't transition "easily". They're powerful, broad across the chest and shoulders, developed for taking the hit on both sides.

Looseheads are designed to bring their power from their hips and legs (which assists them in their ball carrying). It's not often you get a tighthead who can comfortably play both sides.

The pressure on them is less at loosehead but it's a very different technique also. Unless they've trained a lot there and are used to it, you'll not have much joy as a tighthead moving over and thinking it's going to be "a little holiday".

Looseheads try to get under and drive up through their opposite number. Tightheads try to stay down and square and drive through the opposition hooker/loosehead.

If there was, there'd be a glut of examples of guys who play tighthead who move across to loosehead when required but there isn't nor was there before the 23 man squads.

Buer wrote: »

It doesn't void it. If anything, it strengthens it. Tony Buckley was deemed the best tighthead able to cover loosehead. If tightheads could easily do it, they'd have put anyone there ahead of him. That was the best we could do.

The majority of Jenkins' early caps were at tighthead. He only fully became a loosehead the season of his first Lions tour.

I didnt know that about Jenkins.. TBH, he was probably moved to LH because he wasnt good enough to be TH, as LH is less difficult..

Regarding Buckley, he was put there as you say because we had nobody else.. That was the sole reasoning. If we had a better option at the time, someone else would have been chosen (notwithstanding Kindeys Munster bias, and I'm a Munster supporter).

total former wrote: »

I think it's a shocking indictment of Ulster rugby that they haven't produced someone capable of displacing Ruan Pienaar...

We've just named the strongest RWC squad in our history and a lot of the players left behind would have walked into previous squads, I think the provinces are doing just fine in producing players. Some people are just never happy.

mfceiling wrote: »

I don't think it's Ulster rugby that can be blamed for not bringing on a scrum half that's better than pienaar. With that logic we should have brought on a 6 that was better than ferris (pipe down about Henderson awec!!) or a hooker that's better than Best.

Sometimes the academy or schools just don't bring on an exceptional player in a certain position. We've been lucky with centres this past few years. Who knows in 5 years time we could be tripping over back rows.

Who's blaming Ulster for not producing someone better than Pienaar?

Is anyone blaming Munster for not having someone better than Murray?

It's what behind them is the issue - Boss, Williams, Marshall, etc.

seanm187 wrote: »

Regarding Buckley, he was put there as you say because we had nobody else.. That was the sole reasoning. If we had a better option at the time, someone else would have been chosen (notwithstanding Kindeys Munster bias, and I'm a Munster supporter).

But that's my entire point? If they could move "easily enough" it would have been simple to have someone else there. They don't move easily. There are very few who can do it.

There is still something interesting to learn from the press conference today, will there really be players from outside the 31 involved on Saturday? I suppose it may be necessary

If the emergency call came in now, I'd still be lifting the phone to Peter Stringer over Isaac Boss or Kieran Marmion. The man is supremely fit and avoided much damage over his career, he could give you a top level 40 mins, certainly better than Boss....

Larbre34 wrote: »

If the emergency call came in now, I'd still be lifting the phone to Peter Stringer over Isaac Boss or Kieran Marmion. The man is supremely fit and avoided much damage over his career, he could give you a top level 40 mins, certainly better than Boss....

On what basis? He was primarily a sub for Bath who decided not to renew his deal. In the biggest start he had there, he went pretty poorly in the Prem final. Stringer is viewed hugely through rose tinted glasses. The fact is that Saracens, Bath, Newcastle and Sale have all signed him now and released him (well, Sale haven't released him yet given they only signed him).

Also, I don't think there's another scrum half less suited to role Schmidt wants from his 9.

phog wrote: »

As a squad we've come a long way but with regards to the bolded bit we are in our hole in a golden age unless you mean the age of Boss and Reddan.

He said comparative tbf.

Edit: Damn you IBF...