Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

aimee1 · 01-09-2015 09:16AM

vienne86 wrote: »

I feel a bit sorry for Kilcoyne - he really put the refs his hand up. A bit inclined to give away penalties

FYP

thomond2006 · 01-09-2015 09:17AM

phog wrote: »

The provinces have a lot to answer for really in that we're stuck if one of Reddan or Murray goes down injured.

I don't follow?

total former · 01-09-2015 09:20AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't follow?

He is assuming that we're taking two scrum-halves not for tactical reasons but because Boss and Marmion are crap, and that the provinces have failed in delivering decent alternatives.

I'm not sure what the basis is for that.

jm08 · 01-09-2015 09:21AM

total former wrote: »

Personally, I'd either have brought Bent to cover both sides and dropped Furlong, or brought Kilcoyne as LH and dropped Furlong.

I just can't see the logic in bringing three fully fit tightheads when Healy is still very much in doubt.

I can see the logic in it. Its boom or bust with Healy. He will need to play a couple of games anyway to get match fit. If he breaks down, he is out at this stage and a match fit Kilcoyne can be in the squad in 48 hours.

It is better to have Kilcoyne staying matchfit back in Ireland.

vienne86 · 01-09-2015 09:24AM

jm08 wrote: »

I can see the logic in it. Its boom or bust with Healy. He will need to play a couple of games anyway to get match fit. If he breaks down, he is out at this stage and a match fit Kilcoyne can be in the squad in 48 hours.

It is better to have Kilcoyne staying matchfit back in Ireland.

Healy must be tearing it up in training.

shuffol · 01-09-2015 09:28AM

It'll be great to see if Furlong could force his way into the 23. He did decent against Wales despite only returning from injury. Schmidt obviously rates him very highly considering the other players he's sacrificed to take him.

aimee1 · 01-09-2015 09:29AM

jm08 wrote: »

I can see the logic in it. Its boom or bust with Healy. He will need to play a couple of games anyway to get match fit. If he breaks down, he is out at this stage and a match fit Kilcoyne can be in the squad in 48 hours.

It is better to have Kilcoyne staying matchfit back in Ireland.

well healy was scrummaging last week so they must be confident he will be ok.

Unless Healy breaks down completely, Furlong will be providing LH cover, that seems to be whats happening anyway

01-09-2015 09:29AM

jm08 wrote: »

I can see the logic in it. Its boom or bust with Healy. He will need to play a couple of games anyway to get match fit. If he breaks down, he is out at this stage and a match fit Kilcoyne can be in the squad in 48 hours.

It is better to have Kilcoyne staying matchfit back in Ireland.

What if Healy picks up a minor unrelated injury though. If we want to keep him in the squad but can't play him were in trouble.

Tompatrick · 01-09-2015 09:34AM

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm genuinely pretty shocked at that. And frankly think the two looseheads and two scrum halves selection is dangerous and a bit stupid.

Most tightheads can play loose head easily enough. It doesn't work the other way around.

total former · 01-09-2015 09:45AM

Anyway, back to happy, positive things.

Congratulations to Paul O'Connell on his fourth world cup (not that it was in doubt but anyway...) - himself and BOD the only Irishmen to achieve this I think?

Third RWC for Best and Reddan while Healy, Cronin, Ross, Ryan, Heaslip, O'Brien, Murray, Sexton, Earls and Rob Kearney make their second appearances.

Debuts for McGrath, Strauss, Furlong, White, Toner, Henderson, Murphy, Henry, O'Mahony, Jackson, Madigan, Payne, Cave, Henshaw, Dave Kearney, Fitzgerald and Zebo.

jm08 · 01-09-2015 09:50AM

Deleted User wrote: »

What if Healy picks up a minor unrelated injury though. If we want to keep him in the squad but can't play him were in trouble.

Just put Furlong on the bench - if it takes more than 10 days to recover, it isn't minor.

Yeah_Right · 01-09-2015 09:51AM

Tompatrick wrote: »

Most tightheads can play loose head easily enough. It doesn't work the other way around.

Exactly. Switching from TH to LH is much easier than the other way round. And someone else mentioned Furlong had played LH for the u20 which would have only been a couple of years ago. I imagine he has spent a lot of time there over the past couple of months in the training camp. I don't think it will be an issue.

ronanc1000 · 01-09-2015 09:54AM

Pre squad call I said Boss would be dropped, but I didn't see Cave getting a place, I would have dropped Boss to bring in Trimble IMO.

phog · 01-09-2015 09:57AM

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't follow?

Boss, Williams, TOL, Marmion, Marshall, Cooney, etc.

Some wouldn't get onto a good H/Cup team not to mind represent their country in a World Cup.

Mr Tickle · 01-09-2015 09:58AM

ronanc1000 wrote: »

Pre squad call I said Boss would be dropped, but I didn't see Cave getting a place, I would have dropped Boss to bring in Trimble IMO.

I suppose the problem was a lack of a second outright 12. Madigan is too useful on the bench and the other options involve a bit of shuffling. Cave just lets us rest henshaw for the smaller games.

What i would say is that if either Earls or Fitz had been clearly better than the other then the other would have been left at home and Trimble brought. It looks a little like he couldn't choose between the two so he picked both.

Buer · 01-09-2015 10:02AM

phog wrote: »

Boss, Williams, TOL, Marmion, Marshall, Cooney, etc.

Some wouldn't get onto a good H/Cup team not to mind represent their country in a World Cup.

Well, none of them bar Cooney (which is debatable) are even first choice for their provinces, really so it's not a surprise.

Buer · 01-09-2015 10:05AM

Tompatrick wrote: »

Most tightheads can play loose head easily enough. It doesn't work the other way around.

They really can't. Different angles, different pressure on them. It's easier to do, certainly, but if they could do it easily enough, they would.

Remember the last RWC when we brought Tony Buckley to cover loosehead? He was deemed the best option of any tighthead at loosehead and he was abysmal there.

Guys like Matt Stevens or Gethin Jenkins who have genuinely been able to play both sides to a high level are very rare.

phog · 01-09-2015 10:06AM

Buer wrote: »

Well, none of them bar Cooney (which is debatable) are even first choice for their provinces, really so it's not a surprise.

We've four provinces and end up with only two scrumhalves that can be relied on for the world cup.

There's a huge step back in quality from Murray to any of the pretenders.

total former · 01-09-2015 10:08AM

Buer wrote: »

Well, none of them bar Cooney (which is debatable) are even first choice for their provinces, really so it's not a surprise.

I think it's a shocking indictment of Ulster rugby that they haven't produced someone capable of displacing Ruan Pienaar...

We've just named the strongest RWC squad in our history and a lot of the players left behind would have walked into previous squads, I think the provinces are doing just fine in producing players. Some people are just never happy.

irishbucsfan · 01-09-2015 10:08AM

phog wrote: »

We've four provinces and end up with only two scrumhalves that can be relied on for the world cup.

There's a huge step back in quality from Murray to any of the pretenders.

Are the provinces supposed to just conjure scrum halves out of thin air? I don't see what Munster could have done to make Sheridan or Williams any better than they are for example, I wouldn't blame Munster.

seanm187 · 01-09-2015 10:10AM

Buer wrote: »

Remember the last RWC when we brought Tony Buckley to cover loosehead? He was deemed the best option of any tighthead at loosehead and he was abysmal there.

Guys like Matt Stevens or Gethin Jenkins who have genuinely been able to play both sides to a high level are very rare.

Tony Buckley just wasn't a very good prop to begin with, so that voids that argument. I have never seen Gethin Jenkins every play anywhere other than loosehead also..

padser · 01-09-2015 10:12AM

phog wrote: »

We've four provinces and end up with only two scrumhalves that can be relied on for the world cup.

There's a huge step back in quality from Murray to any of the pretenders.

We have four provinces. Their top scrumhalves are

1) Conor Murray - Has Lions caps, would likely be Lions starter if there was a tour now
2) Eoin Redden - 4 Europeans cups with two different teams
3) Piennar - one of the best scrum halves in the world
4) Marrmion - not great to be fair

After that, we are complaining that the second and third scrumhalves at each province are not up to test level.

Not really a huge surprise....Same with most positions

Buer · 01-09-2015 10:14AM

phog wrote: »

We've four provinces and end up with only two scrumhalves that can be relied on for the world cup.

There's a huge step back in quality from Murray to any of the pretenders.

Such is life. We've only one guy who we could really count on at inside centre. Cave only ever started a couple of low level internationals there.

We've only 4 provinces, we're never going to be able to have great depth in specialist positions. At 2, 9, 10 and 12 we've only got 2-3 lads who can realistically play there in a big test match at this point.

smiley_face · 01-09-2015 10:16AM

Bit obvious perhaps, but just for the record, these were the surprises for me:
White instead of Moore.
Furlong instead of Bent.
Cave instead of Boss or Marmion.
Dave Kearney instead of Trimble.
Both Earls & Fitz together instead of Jones plus one of Earls or Fitz.

Utah_Saint · 01-09-2015 10:18AM

padser wrote: »

We have four provinces. Their top scrumhalves are

1) Conor Murray - Has Lions caps, would likely be Lions starter if there was a tour now
2) Eoin Redden - 4 Europeans cups with two different teams
3) Piennar - one of the best scrum halves in the world
4) Marrmion - not great to be fair

After that, we are complaining that the second and third scrumhalves at each province are not up to test level.

Not really a huge surprise....Same with most positions

I def think ulster could have done more to utilise Ruan to develop a top quality Scrum Half...

Outside of Ruan ulster probably have the worst Scrum Half options

vienne86 · 01-09-2015 10:18AM

smiley_face wrote: »

Bit obvious perhaps, but just for the record, these were the surprises for me:
White instead of Moore.
Furlong instead of Bent.
Cave instead of Boss or Marmion.
Dave Kearney instead of Trimble.
Both Earls & Fitz together instead of Jones plus one of Earls or Fitz.

I agree with the first three. I expected Kearney to be included, but didn't think Jones would travel.

smiley_face · 01-09-2015 10:24AM

total former wrote: »

The scrum half thing I can live with, both the key guys are fully fit and it's not the most attritional position. I don't agree with it but there's some logic.

The loosehead call is a massive gamble. I just don't get it.

I'd have to agree, but only thing I can think of is that Tadhg is solid enough to start or bench at Loose Head against Canada and Romania, and bench at Loose Head against Italy and France. Break glass in case of emergency only.
McGrath can last 80 minutes if he has to, if Healy can't play.

irishbucsfan · 01-09-2015 10:24AM

I guess they may feel that Murray and Reddan can play every game at 9 and 21, perhaps Reddan starting the first 2 with Murray on the bench and then switching round.

I don't think Madigan will play there unless there's an emergency. Not sure why we'd take that risk.

The risk at loose head is far greater. Much more attritional position. I like Furlong but I don't particularly enjoy the idea of finding out what he's like out of position.

Leslie91 · 01-09-2015 10:26AM

The surprises as I see it... the choice of props.

Was sure it'd be Healy Killer McGrath Ross Moore (if fit and if not White, who looked v poor at the w/e). Did not see Furlong making it.

I know the back 3 was a big call, but still surprised Trimble is odd man out. Thought he would have made it over one of Earls/Fitz.

Surprised at Cave over a 3rd 9.

awec · 01-09-2015 10:29AM

I don't understand the selections for LH. It makes no sense.

Is this going to be the defining moment of the 2015 world cup? In the past it was undercooked players, are we going to be looking back in 5 years time at the strange selections made at loosehead and 9?

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

Comments