Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

aimee1 · 30-08-2015 09:35PM

awec wrote: »

If Trimble is going he must surely be in the squad for England.

He played for ulster the other night ?

earls and fitz are definitely injured.
Moore and Healy too.

So maybe Killer, Bent, White will be involved as well as perhaps Jones ?

Im just guessing that would be a reason why.

Buer · 30-08-2015 09:38PM

aimee1 wrote: »

He played for ulster the other night ?

earls and fitz are definitely injured.
Moore and Healy too.

So maybe Killer, Bent, White will be involved as well as perhaps Jones ?

Im just guessing that would be a reason why.

If Moore and Healy are out, then I understand needing another prop to fulfill the propping requirements.

If Fitzgerald and Earls are both injured then we will still have three of Zebo, Jones, Trimble, Bowe and DK available to occupy the 11, 14 and 23 jerseys.

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 09:40PM

Buer wrote: »

Unless there are multiple players that cannot play next week, the notion of giving players outside the 31 game time seems completely bizarre and wasteful to me.

I was thinking earlier on about the team I'd like to see next week and I thought Payne must be a certainty but I was wondering who'd partner him. Henshaw again is certainly possible but they may want to rest him. So do you start Madigan at 12? Maybe.

Maybe you start Cave at 12 beside Henshaw. I'd prefer to see him there than Madigan if Henshaw is rested. I was thinking that earlier, someone like Cave could be involved and not included in the squad. Maybe Felix Jones is another example. Those guys who are possibly the next in line to start in case of injury despite not being in the original squad.

fitz · 30-08-2015 09:44PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I was thinking earlier on about the team I'd like to see next week and I thought Payne must be a certainty but I was wondering who'd partner him. Henshaw again is certainly possible but they may want to rest him. So do you start Madigan at 12? Maybe.

Maybe you start Cave at 12 beside Henshaw. I'd prefer to see him there than Madigan if Henshaw is rested. I was thinking that earlier, someone like Cave could be involved and not included in the squad. Maybe Felix Jones is another example. Those guys who are possibly the next in line to start in case of injury despite not being in the original squad.

Yeah, you'd have to assume that someone outside the 31 being included next week where it isn't covering injury is a definite for call up in the event of an injury during the tournament.

Wang King · 30-08-2015 09:45PM

aimee1 wrote: »

He played for ulster the other night ?

earls and fitz are definitely injured.
Moore and Healy too.

So maybe Killer, Bent, White will be involved as well as perhaps Jones ?

Im just guessing that would be a reason why.

Jones won't be involved in that game

30-08-2015 09:47PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Starts at the shoulders and then moves up as he twists him and brings him to ground. That's not the only angle, Pearce was on the other side which was a better angle.

Ok.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That video just confirms it was the correct call. He had his arms around his shoulders at first and then they slide up and he pulls Tipuric to the ground by his neck. Which is exactly what refs have been asked to watch out for:

Which is it? That video shows him on the shoulder and absolutely not on the neck.

Buer · 30-08-2015 09:48PM

I'd start Henshaw and Payne. They've only 1 start each this series and none together. I'd like my first choice partnership getting at least one start together before the RWC.

I'd go with close to a full strength side next week. Rest Heaslip who has two starts already (and we've ample cover at 8) and McGrath, if possible, who will be vital if Healy cannot prove his fitness to start for Italy.

The Rape of Lucretia · 30-08-2015 09:54PM

fitz wrote: »

Yeah, you'd have to assume that someone outside the 31 being included next week where it isn't covering injury is a definite for call up in the event of an injury during the tournament.

I dont think you could assume that at all.
The aim next week will be further fitness game time for those Joe think need it, positional partneships he thinks need time together although I think that is done at this stage so will be minimal or nil, some positional experience out of normal position for those in the 31 who are covering other positions. After that he will be just filling in the gaps with whoever he feels best allows the above three categories to play the game. Not necessarily his first choices as call-ups. Nevertheless, the likes of The Marmolator, or The McFaddenator playing is quite possible who would be likely callups, but also the likes of Cave if he wanted a covering centre to get some experience even if he were really ever going to call up Cave.

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 09:59PM

Tara Small Yawn wrote: »

Ok.

Which is it? That video shows him on the shoulder and absolutely not on the neck.

In that video at the end you can see his arm is around his neck, but if you haven't seen the other angle then you may not interpret it the same way.

30-08-2015 10:05PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

In that video at the end you can see his arm is around his neck

This is fiction.

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 10:10PM

Tara Small Yawn wrote: »

This is fiction.

Nope, not if you've seen the other angle as I just said but you conveniently omitted from the quote.

Can you see POC's arm at the end in Murray's twitter clip? If not, then the short clip does nothing to prove anything, so you need to look at the other angles, have you done that yet?

.ak · 30-08-2015 10:10PM

Buer wrote: »

Unless there are multiple players that cannot play next week, the notion of giving players outside the 31 game time seems completely bizarre and wasteful to me.

Really? Why risk more injuries? What about guys that have niggles? I'd imagine there'll be a few from outside the 31 playing...

Infact, if it was me, I'd play an experimental side and use it to keep the guys on call match sharp. To be honest the canada and Romania games can serve was warm ups for the first line guys... Sorry if that sounds elitist!

30-08-2015 10:19PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Nope, not if you've seen the other angle as I just said but you conveniently omitted from the quote.

Can you see POC's arm at the end in Murray's twitter clip? If not, then the short clip does nothing to prove anything, so you need to look at the other angles, have you done that yet?

I thought you were saying the clip Kinsella posted shows POC's arm around Tipuric's neck (it doesn't), if that's not what you meant then I misread.

Bolded - no, where are they? Post them up there if they exist thanks, and I'll happily admit I'm wrong if it shows POC around Tipuric's neck.

You initially said the video posted proves the penalty was the right call. It does nothing of the sort.

.ak · 30-08-2015 10:22PM

Wang King wrote: »

Jones won't be involved in that game

I presume you've heard a rumour that jones is in the 31 then?

I'd be happy for the guy... But if he spends the whole tournament sitting on the bench at the expense of players like earls/Zebo/fitz/Trimble or DK I'd be pretty annoyed.

Buer · 30-08-2015 10:24PM

.ak wrote: »

I presume you've heard a rumour that jones is in the 31 then?

I'd be happy for the guy... But if he spends the whole tournament sitting on the bench at the expense of players like earls/Zebo/fitz/Trimble or DK I'd be pretty annoyed.

If Jones goes, he's starting at least one game. Whoever goes as back up full back is guaranteed to start a game.

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 10:26PM

Tara Small Yawn wrote: »

I thought you were saying the clip Kinsella posted shows POC's arm around Tipuric's neck (it doesn't), if that's not what you meant then I misread.

Bolded - no, where are they? Post them up there if they exist thanks, and I'll happily admit I'm wrong if it shows POC around Tipuric's neck.

I don't think there are clips online, the clips are in the match footage though so if the game is up on youtube or the rte player then the angles were shown during coverage.

Tara Small Yawn wrote: »

You initially said the video posted proves the penalty was the right call. It does nothing of the sort.

Well when I look at it I see POC's arm sliding up at the end, but that's because that's what I saw from the other angles when watching the game. In that clip you can't actually see it though, so you're right. It also certainly does not prove the officials wrong though as you said either.

The Lost Sheep · 30-08-2015 10:26PM

.ak wrote: »

Really? Why risk more injuries? What about guys that have niggles? I'd imagine there'll be a few from outside the 31 playing...

Infact, if it was me, I'd play an experimental side and use it to keep the guys on call match sharp. To be honest the canada and Romania games can serve was warm ups for the first line guys... Sorry if that sounds elitist!

There really wont. I don't see any point in playing guys outside of the 31 named. The provinces are back in action next weekend anyway so they will need guys and should have guys back playing with them. We cant go into Canada/Romania using them simply as warm ups for first string guys ahead of games 3/4.

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 10:27PM

Buer wrote: »

If Jones goes, he's starting at least one game. Whoever goes as back up full back is guaranteed to start a game.

Yeah definitely. No way Kearney is starting against Romania and Canada!

How we approach those games is a riddle in itself.

The Rape of Lucretia · 30-08-2015 10:29PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

We cant go into Canada/Romania using them simply as warm ups for first string guys ahead of games 3/4.

Why not ? Neither team will trouble us in the slightest whatever team we put out. So correct to use both games for whatever rest/practice/gametime/etc Joe feels squad player need to be best ready for the subsequent games.

Buer · 30-08-2015 10:29PM

.ak wrote: »

Really? Why risk more injuries? What about guys that have niggles? I'd imagine there'll be a few from outside the 31 playing...

Infact, if it was me, I'd play an experimental side and use it to keep the guys on call match sharp. To be honest the canada and Romania games can serve was warm ups for the first line guys... Sorry if that sounds elitist!

Pretty much what TLS said. At this point, you can't wrap people in cotton wool and go into the RWC with guys undercooked. They need a few games to hit their stride having not played in months.

We play a good solid side and all front liners should get another 80 minutes between Romania and Canada. They won't want them playing in both those games to ensure they've some freshness and the usual bumps and bruises are cleared before Italy so I'd say we'll put out a weaker team against Romania.

Playing guys who aren't in the 31 at this point is simply wasting extremely precious and limited game time, to my mind.

connachta · 30-08-2015 10:31PM

Jones going instead of Earls/Zebo/D Kearney would be another defeat for beautiful rugby after Boss and Jackson ahead of Marmion and Madigan.. My opinion.

smiley_face · 30-08-2015 10:33PM

My guess,
5 props: Healy, McGrath, Bent, Ross, Moore.
3 Hookers: Best, Cronin, Strauss.
4 2nd Rows: POC, Toner, Henderson, Ryan.
5 Back Rows: Heaslip, SOB, POM, Murphy, Henry.
3 Scrum Halves: Murray, Reddan, Boss.
3 Out Halves: Sexton, Jackson, Madigan.
3 Centres: Henshaw, Payne, Earls.
3 Wingers: Zebo, Trimble, Bowe.
2 Fullbacks: R Kearney, Jones.

Call-ups:
LH = Kilcoyne
TH = White
Hooker = Herring
Lock = Tuohy
Back Row = Conan
Scrum Half = Marmion
Out Half = Keatley
Centre = Cave
Winger = Fitzgerald, D Kearney.
Fullback = N/A (will use Zebo and call up a winger)

Edit: fixed it, had one winger too many, D'oh!

30-08-2015 10:35PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't think there are clips online, the clips are in the match footage though so if the game is up on youtube or the rte player then the angles were shown during coverage.

Well when I look at it I see POC's arm sliding up at the end, but that's because that's what I saw from the other angles when watching the game. In that clip you can't actually see it though, so you're right. It also certainly does not prove the officials wrong though as you said either.

Well there's not much else I can say here, I didn't think it was a penalty while watching the game and you're talking about another angle that isn't around anywhere.

I'm going by what I can see and what I can see is he's around the shoulders.

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 10:38PM

That could well be it smiley_face

Not much I'd disagree with there. I do think it could come down to Earls v. Fitz now unfortunately if there's questions over both staying fit. They're our two most talented outside backs imo so I'd be sad to see either left behind.

awec · 30-08-2015 10:40PM

If we are going to be wrapping people in cotton wool at this stage what was the point in scheduling a game against England which is sure to be very physically demanding? I don't buy it.

connachta · 30-08-2015 10:41PM

smiley_face wrote: »

My guess,
5 props: Healy, McGrath, Bent, Ross, Moore.
3 Hookers: Best, Cronin, Strauss.
4 2nd Rows: POC, Toner, Henderson, Ryan.
5 Back Rows: Heaslip, SOB, POM, Murphy, Henry.
3 Scrum Halves: Murray, Reddan, Boss.
3 Out Halves: Sexton, Jackson, Madigan.
3 Centres: Henshaw, Payne, Earls.
4 Wingers: Zebo, Trimble, Bowe, D Kearney.
2 Fullbacks: R Kearney, Jones.

Call-ups:
LH = Kilcoyne
TH = White
Hooker = Herring
Lock = Tuohy
Back Row = Conan
Scrum Half = Marmion
Out Half = Keatley
Centre = Cave
Winger = Fitzgerald
Fullback = N/A (will use Zebo and call up a winger)

Not ideal but that's likely to be that... Maybe Darce ahead of Cave?

total former · 30-08-2015 10:48PM

awec wrote: »

If we are going to be wrapping people in cotton wool at this stage what was the point in scheduling a game against England which is sure to be very physically demanding? I don't buy it.

100% agree. Especially since there's a full programme of Pro12 games on too, it would be bizarre.

smiley_face · 30-08-2015 10:50PM

connachta wrote: »

Not ideal but that's likely to be that... Maybe Darce ahead of Cave?

D'Arcy was the poorest player in the 3 warm-up matches IMO,
He won't be ahead of Cave unless there's some serious bias going on.
Cave covers both centre positions so he's good injury cover.
Also think he's way under-rated.
Fitzgerald is probably ahead of him for a call-up though, but I put him down as a winger.

kuang1 · 30-08-2015 10:53PM

smiley_face wrote: »

My guess,
5 props: Healy, McGrath, Bent, Ross, Moore.
3 Hookers: Best, Cronin, Strauss.
4 2nd Rows: POC, Toner, Henderson, Ryan.
5 Back Rows: Heaslip, SOB, POM, Murphy, Henry.
3 Scrum Halves: Murray, Reddan, Boss.
3 Out Halves: Sexton, Jackson, Madigan.
3 Centres: Henshaw, Payne, Earls.
3 Wingers: Zebo, Trimble, Bowe.
2 Fullbacks: R Kearney, Jones.

Call-ups:
LH = Kilcoyne
TH = White
Hooker = Herring
Lock = Tuohy
Back Row = Conan
Scrum Half = Marmion
Out Half = Keatley
Centre = Cave
Winger = Fitzgerald, D Kearney.
Fullback = N/A (will use Zebo and call up a winger)

Edit: fixed it, had one winger too many, D'oh!

D Kearney in for Zebo.
Zebo in for Jones.
Jones as standby.

And again it's a toss up whether or not earls and fitz swap places in your list...anyone's guess.

I keep saying this I know...but I think Joe has some serious man-love for both D Kearney and Trimble. (And I have no problem with it!)

irishbucsfan · 30-08-2015 10:55PM

Tara Small Yawn wrote: »

Well there's not much else I can say here, I didn't think it was a penalty while watching the game and you're talking about another angle that isn't around anywhere.

I'm going by what I can see and what I can see is he's around the shoulders.

You can't see that he's around the shoulders the whole way through the video unless you have x-ray vision. On the other angle he moves his arm up (whether its as far as the neck is questionable, but its close enough for the call to be made).

Clearouts are looked at the same way as a tackle now. If you grab someone like that in a tackle, over the top of the shoulder, you could just as easilly get pinged for it. Refs are looking for anything over the shoulders now because the powers that be have suddenly become very scared of clearouts. I think it would be a much better idea to start at the source and ensure defenders support their weight and penalise them properly for bridging which is what leads to these types of clearouts, but that's just my opinion.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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