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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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  • #6152
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Joe sees something in Jones and he fits into his strategy. I think he'll travel, otherwise Zebo'd have benched methinks.

    I think Joe definitely holds Jones in high regard but this is a zero-sum game. Jones travelling means someone else loses out, but pretty much all his rivals have had far more game time under Joe than Jones has.

    I don't think he'll go.


  • #6153
    connachta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭connachta


    total former wrote: »
    Jones travelling means someone else loses out, but pretty much all his rivals have had far more game time

    Yeah I can't imagine he'll sacrifice one of the talented players in contention. Maybe if Earls and Fitz both out (fingers crossed they won't be)...


  • #6154
    vienne86
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,078 ✭✭✭✭vienne86


    connachta wrote: »
    Earls and Fitzgerald both injured... from a headache (two for one spot) to another (0 for 1)?

    Both OK according to RTE this evening.


  • #6155
    Cosmo Kramer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    It seems like we're back where we started in terms of the centre, wing and full back picks, there's a case to be made for all the main contenders but they can't all go.

    Henshaw, Payne, Rob Kearney and Bowe are certain to travel. Madigan will obviously go as well as a back up 12 and 15 (and 10).

    I'd also be amazed if Trimble was left out, he has always delivered for Joe when available.

    I wouldn't be Dave Kearney's biggest fan but, to be fair to him, he has put his hand up in the warm up games and looks to be in great form. Joe will pick him.

    Fitz and Earls - both offer a lot of versatility and can cover centre where we don't have a huge amount of back up. Personally if it was one from the two I'd go for Earls, I think in the same situation Joe would pick Fitz. However (assuming theyre fit), because they can cover multiple positions including 13, I think they'll both go. It's touch and go for Earls though.

    Jones has done nothing wrong but nothing to demand selection either. Joe has clearly always been a fan but, with a difficult decision to make, I think he'll be left out this time.

    I think Gilroy, Darcy and McFadden are all well out of the running at this stage. Cave too would need an injury or two at centre to make the cut.

    That just leaves Zebo. I'd certainly have him in the squad but I'm not at all convinced that Joe feels the same. It'll be a huge story if he doesn't go, a much bigger one than if Earls, Fitz or Dave Kearney didn't make it. My prediction though is that, if all of the above are fit, he'll miss out.


  • #6156
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 24,003 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Henwin wrote: »
    ya tat looks like it, but its a bit unfair on earls and fitz are left at home but boss and jackson who i think are really poor get to travel, is there any argument to be made to travel with only 2 scrum halfs or 2 out halfs and bring earls and fitz?

    If you were going to risk only taking 2 OHs it'd be Sexton and Jackson. Madigan is not an OH.


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  • #6157
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,145 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    vienne86 wrote: »
    Both OK according to RTE this evening.

    He is following the concussion protocols though, which I think means no training for him for a while.


  • #6158
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 24,003 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    awec wrote: »
    He is following the concussion protocols though, which I think means no training for him for a while.

    Presumably there's no definite time frame with concussion. He could be fine in a week, it could take a few months. Depends how bad it was. Sexton missed a few months from one concussion, didn't he?


  • #6159
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Presumably there's no definite time frame with concussion. He could be fine in a week, it could take a few months. Depends how bad it was. Sexton missed a few months from one concussion, didn't he?

    Think so, from personal experience, I fell off a horse once and was out of work for 3 months due to long term post concussion syndrome. Then it took me another three months to adjust to the lighting in work.

    However they are saying that with Earls he's a neck/jaw injury. He looked a bit still on the pitch when injured though


  • #6160
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,145 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    Presumably there's no definite time frame with concussion. He could be fine in a week, it could take a few months. Depends how bad it was. Sexton missed a few months from one concussion, didn't he?

    There is. If he is concussed the RTP protocol states a minimum of 21 days before he can play again (2 weekends).


    http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU-Guide-to-Concussion(2).pdf

    So if he is found to be concussed you would have to say his World Cup is over, given he can't even train for 14 days.


  • #6161
    gamma001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 250 ✭✭gamma001


    I'm almost sure there are different concussion protocols for professional players (shorter time outs) since they can be under the supervision of medical professionals.

    The guidelines are for the general non-professional rugby player as far as I can remember.


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  • #6162
    connachta
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,981 ✭✭✭connachta


    awec wrote: »
    There is. If he is concussed the RTP protocol states a minimum of 21 days before he can play again (2 weekends).


    http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU-Guide-to-Concussion(2).pdf

    So if he is found to be concussed you would have to say his World Cup is over, given he can't even train for 14 days.

    Then I'd picked Zebo, I share 100% of how Cosmo analyses above


  • #6163
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 24,003 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    awec wrote: »
    There is. If he is concussed the RTP protocol states a minimum of 21 days before he can play again (2 weekends).


    http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU-Guide-to-Concussion(2).pdf

    So if he is found to be concussed you would have to say his World Cup is over, given he can't even train for 14 days.

    Yeah but my point was there's no guarantee that he'll be okay even when the minimum amount of time has passed. They could assess him again in 21 days and say he's still not recovered. There's guidelines and protocol for concussion but there's no fixed time frame for recovery. Assuming he is concussed.


  • #6164
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    If anyone cares, that defeat moves us back to third in the world rankings behind Australia.


  • #6165
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 24,003 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    total former wrote: »
    If anyone cares, that defeat moves us back to third in the world rankings behind Australia.

    We'll move back up when we beat England next week. :D


  • #6166
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    awec wrote: »
    There is. If he is concussed the RTP protocol states a minimum of 21 days before he can play again (2 weekends).

    http://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU-Guide-to-Concussion(2).pdf

    So if he is found to be concussed you would have to say his World Cup is over, given he can't even train for 14 days.
    That is the case for amateurs. Pros operate under a different system. He can train/play if he passes protocols etc
    gamma001 wrote: »
    I'm almost sure there are different concussion protocols for professional players (shorter time outs) since they can be under the supervision of medical professionals.

    The guidelines are for the general non-professional rugby player as far as I can remember.
    correct. pros and amatuers operate different systems


  • #6167
    Wang King
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,169 ✭✭✭Wang King


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    We'll move back up when we beat England next week. :D

    Wouldn't even bet on that at this stage


  • #6168
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    Gavin Cummiskey reckons "it’s not really a tough call anymore" as to whether Henderson will oust Toner, and in fact Toner will drop out of the 23 altogether.

    Thoughts?


  • #6169
    phog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,048 ✭✭✭✭phog


    total former wrote: »
    Gavin Cummiskey reckons "it’s not really a tough call anymore" as to whether Henderson will oust Toner, and in fact Toner will drop out of the 23 altogether.

    Thoughts?

    Henderson was an absolute beast today, best Irish player bar none today.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Henderson partner Paulie for the bigger games. The question then would be is Toner or Ryan on the bench.


  • #6170
    thomond2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    I think after the rustiness today we'll see close to the first XV against England. Then there is effectively two matches to rotate before France and Italy.

    Depends on who is picked/not picked on Tuesday but here goes (I'm ruling out Earls and Fitzgerald through injury):

    McGrath, Best, Ross, POC, Henderson, POM, SOB, Heaslip;
    Murray, Sexton, Trimble, Henshaw, Payne, Bowe, Kearney

    Cronin, Healy, Moore/White, Ryan, Henry, Reddan, Jackson, Zebo


  • #6171
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    total former wrote: »
    Gavin Cummiskey reckons "it’s not really a tough call anymore" as to whether Henderson will oust Toner, and in fact Toner will drop out of the 23 altogether.

    Thoughts?

    Was the lack of Toner not noticeable in the lineouts and rucks?

    Or is it the result of a new pairing?


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  • #6172
    duckysauce
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭duckysauce


    phog wrote: »
    Henderson was an absolute beast today, best Irish player bar none today.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Henderson partner Paulie for the bigger games. The question then would be is Toner or Ryan on the bench.

    yep Toner would not have gotten over the line like Hendo did today , massive player now POC / Hendo locks for me pure class.


  • #6173
    duckysauce
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭duckysauce


    Stheno wrote: »
    Was the lack of Toner not noticeable in the lineouts and rucks?

    Or is it the result of a new pairing?

    lack of him in which way ?


  • #6174
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    duckysauce wrote: »
    lack of him in which way ?

    We didn't seem imo to contest the lineouts much at all.


  • #6175
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Stheno wrote: »
    We didn't seem imo to contest the lineouts much at all.
    Don't think Toner not playing was reason we didn't contest. All part of how we wanted to play. We did contest quite a bit


  • #6176
    .ak
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,308 ✭✭✭✭.ak


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    Don't think Toner not playing was reason we didn't contest. All part of how we wanted to play. We did contest quite a bit

    Contest in what form? From my memory we waited until the opposition retrieved the ball before engaging the carrier. I think the op was referring to contesting for the ball in the air.


  • #6177
    English Lurker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 609 ✭✭✭English Lurker


    Stheno wrote: »
    We didn't seem imo to contest the lineouts much at all.

    Henderson took one steal and got hands to another only to knock it out; if there was a lack of contesting, I don't think it was on him. And that was in the rear slot, where Toner tends to be on oppo lineouts I think - at least he was there when he stole ball against England in the 6N.

    I do think Ireland's ruck clearing was a bit dilatory, and that Henderson was part of that, but I'm not sure Toner is a key part of the effort there.


  • #6178
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    .ak wrote: »
    Contest in what form? From my memory we waited until the opposition retrieved the ball before engaging the carrier. I think the op was referring to contesting for the ball in the air.

    That's exactly what I meant, it seemed we did little to contest for the ball in the air, sorry


  • #6179
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Toner and POC switch between jumping in the middle of the lineout, I think they're effectively man marking key players at times, for example Toner enjoys jumping across from Richie Gray (and has dominated him at times). Toner's too heavy to jump at the front, he can't get up quick enough, POM was jumping there today and I'd assume he'll continue to do so for our first choice XV.

    I'd be fairly certain Toner is going to keep his starting place. He's a big part of our defense and set pieces and Henderson didn't seem to be used in the same way. Henderson really put his hand up though and certainly completely silenced any questions about who is next in line for the 2nd row, even if he's not starting he could be a very important player off the bench. I'm guessing we'll see him partner Ryan against one of the first two opponents, that's an international standard 2nd row partnership all on it's own imo, which is nice to think about.


  • #6180
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    .ak wrote: »
    Contest in what form? From my memory we waited until the opposition retrieved the ball before engaging the carrier. I think the op was referring to contesting for the ball in the air.
    We did both though... from early on as well iirc


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  • #6181
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    The Lost Sheep wrote: »
    We did both though... from early on as well iirc

    That's completely different from what I thought, Welsh lineouts with the exception of the one that was thrown too long were completely dominated by the Welsh, no competing for the ball after it was thrown at all.


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