Psychics

jonnny68 wrote: »

i was a non believer until last year, my missus went to one and they told her about a job i was going to get before i had even applied for it , months in fact before the job was even advertised, the medium would not have even known my missus had a boyfriend never mind know what type of job i was going to get and where i was from, the job in question actually came up,i applied and got it.

There can be absolutely no doubts some of them are genuine, no doubts at all, the medium told my missus a few other things in which she could not possibly have known.

What happens in this situation is the "psychic" puts words in the mouth of the person they are giving the reading to. She would have made conversation about current employment situations/economic climate/money or something related and have gotten information about you searching for a job from your gf without her realising it.

There is a clip of James Randi exposing a psychic on Youtube. The psychic gave a guy in the audience a reading and, of course, the man is amazed at the personal information she knew about him. He insisted the psychic asked him a half a dozen names at most during the reading to see if he could connect with any of them.

When they played the tape back she actually asked him 37 names during the reading. He was insisting this couldnt be true until he read the transcript back. The point is that people will be taken in by what mediums say and will only remember what they said that was correct and block out the huge amounts of guesswork they do.

As there are many doubters on this thread i have decided to use my amazing psychic powers to perform a readin for the entire boards.ie membership. My reading below is for each of you individually. I am available for private consultations.

You have a need for other people to like and admire you, and yet you tend to be critical of yourself. While you have some personality weaknesses you are generally able to compensate for them. You have considerable unused capacity that you have not turned to your advantage. Disciplined and self-controlled on the outside, you tend to be worrisome and insecure on the inside. At times you have serious doubts as to whether you have made the right decision or done the right thing. You prefer a certain amount of change and variety and become dissatisfied when hemmed in by restrictions and limitations. You also pride yourself as an independent thinker; and do not accept others' statements without satisfactory proof. But you have found it unwise to be too frank in revealing yourself to others. At times you are extroverted, affable, and sociable, while at other times you are introverted, wary, and reserved. Some of your aspirations tend to be rather unrealistic.

May I remind you all: "Mary loves Dick!"

Colin Fry dead.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/colin-fry-dead-tv-psychic-9924658#rlabs=4%20sitewide

He didn't see that coming !!!

One More Toy wrote: »

Darren Brown did a great job of exposing these cunce

History has shown that exposing them does very little to stop them. A great example is the exposure of Peter Poppoff by James Randi. The former left the "circuit" in shame for some time following this, but returned not all that long later doing all the same crap again and making even more money doing so than he did the first time.

I guess some people really are that stupid. But only some. There are genuinely not stupid people who simply WANT to be fooled. They, for one reason or another, need this magic or magical narrative in their life.

Oryx wrote: »

You can choose to believe in it or not

Speak for yourself I guess. Belief has NEVER been a choice for me. I am either compelled to believe something there is substantiation for, or I am not. There is no choice in it for me.

But I only speak for myself as I say. Perhaps there are many others with credulity so labile they are capable of influencing it at will. It simply is not a capability I have. One wonders how labile it is however. Are you, for example, capable of looking into a palpably empty box and simply choose to believe it is full of money? Or are there limits, simply different to my own, as to how malleable you can make it?

Oryx wrote: »

There are, however, psychic and mediumship organisations who have a code of ethics their members must follow.

They are selling unsubstantiated lies and profiting one way or another by it. My confidence in their ethics, code of ethics, or willingness to abide by a code of ethics they agreed to in "good faith" is necessarily reduced therefore.

Oryx wrote: »

And James Randi is mentioned in every single discussion on psychics ever. Im waiting on Penn and Teller. Theyre next.

Indeed, the pool of people who take the time to make a career out of debunking charlatans is small, especially in the face of the hostility, litigation and even threats one is on the receiving end of while doing so. So there are a relatively small number of names to pull from, even less so household names anyone who has not invested much study into this subject would know.

But that Randi, Penn, Teller and Shermer are so readily brought out in such discussions is merely a testament to how skillfully they have engaged in their task.

CliCliW wrote: »

May I ask, it's clear everyone here more or less has a problem with psychics and fortune tellers, but what are your opinions on magicians and the like?

To me they're a stones throw away from each other, but I'd like to hear thoughts. If you're so against psychics then are you against magicians too?

Very simple question to answer. Magicians, with a few exceptions, do not claim what they are doing is actual magic. They openly identify as being entertainers and that their career is in Misdirection and Illusion. And the pleasure of watching them is not in believing what they are doing is real, but in the mental challenge of unraveling how they have achieved it. They are entertainment, they know it, you know it, everything is above board and honest.

The other group however are claiming to have actual capabilities beyond that of normal man. They are lying charlatans, who by necessity often have to prey on the credulity of the weak, desperate and vulnerable. The Uri Gellers of the world are not claiming to be engaging in illusion, but are claiming to have genuine magical powers.

The two groups simply do not compare.

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Should psychics not be made to either prove their 'ability' or if they can't then advertise that what they're doing is all just a bit of fun, otherwise they're deliberately misleading people aren't they and as such should be prosecuted.

I wish it were so. We appear to have many authorities, such as the advertising standards authority, who do clamp down on blatantly false claims about products and their capabilities. It would be nice if these things were extended in law to psychics, purveyors of woo, and charlatan snake oil salesmen like Homeopathy and the like. Yet somehow all these things are exempt. Likely due to legal and linguistic loop holes beyond my knowledge of law and language.

jonnny68 wrote: »

There can be absolutely no doubts some of them are genuine, no doubts at all, the medium told my missus a few other things in which she could not possibly have known.

Except there is ample doubt. Anecdote like yours is useless for a variety of reasons. And such anecdote is also the result of what is known as "The Baltimore stockbroker" effect or also known as the "file drawer problem".

Even the line "could not possibly have known" is a canard in itself. You simply have no idea what channels of information a person may or may not have. You simply have an imagination as to what they may be. And this "could not possibly have known" canard is not limited to psychics. It is used to sell the idea of many things like Reincarnation and more.

jonnny68 wrote: »

you don't just guess these things and hope for the best, therefore there is absolutely no doubts she is genuine.

Actually yes, many of them do do exactly that. You guess things that have a significantly large statistical probability of being real often enough, and you will hit the prize just as often. Again it is the Baltimore Stockbroker effect again.

But it is not all guess work. There are many other channels of information especially in the information age of finding out details about a client before they show up for appointment. Do not underestimate what a googling of your name will reveal.

But even then without guess work and the internet, there are tricks and techniques for mining the information you would like. Quite often the mark can be tricked into giving some information and not even realize they gave it. I have seen videos of psychics at "work" and it is amazing how much of the delusion is trickery to make the client delude themselves.

You say for example "There is no way they could have known I had a son". This is a great example because in some of the clips I have watched the "psychic" will make random chit chat at high speed and the client will at equal speed throw out replies that they never remember giving. And in one clip a question of "Hows the family?" was met with "Oh fine, spent most of the weekend with my step son" and then later the psychic "knew" this client had a step son. The client themselves, until being shown the video later, had NO RECOLLECTION of having mentioned him and was, like you, quite baffled as to how the psychic had this information.

On top of all those three things however, there is the fourth which I see kylith has already touched on. Selection Bias in the mind of the mark. The brain tends to record the "hits" the "psychic" gets while filtering out most of the misses. Unless a "psychic" is getting SIGNIFICANTLY more misses than hits, the average mark will tend to give uneven statistical mental weighting to the "hits" and come out of a session awed at how much the "psychic" got right.

Any one of these four things are powerful in themselves, but all 4 together very much explains the undeserved and unearned credibility many people invest in the charlatans around us.

Melina Rotten Sourdough wrote: »

I remember hearing about an exorcist in England who was saying he is booked up months in advance. The Irish Church also had to train extra excorcists to keep up with the demand of people seeking help. These things are not a joke.

That people book such services does not add credibility to the services however. The things remain a joke regardless. Otherwise it would be an attempt to lend credibility to belief in them merely by pointing out some people have belief in them. Which is.... at best.... circular reasoning.

TiGeR KiNgS wrote: »

Some ?

We tend to have a lot of users under the age around here, especially around school holiday time

This whole thread just reminds me of this

Has anyone here lost a Mary? :pac:

It's 2015 and people still believe in psychics. That's worrying. Sure even the best illusionist/mentalist Derren Brown will tell you they're frauds.

They are parasites... but here if you want a laugh...

jonnny68 wrote: »

i was a non believer until last year, my missus went to one and they told her about a job i was going to get before i had even applied for it , months in fact before the job was even advertised, the medium would not have even known my missus had a boyfriend never mind know what type of job i was going to get and where i was from, the job in question actually came up,i applied and got it.

There can be absolutely no doubts some of them are genuine, no doubts at all, the medium told my missus a few other things in which she could not possibly have known.

You weren't even there in person so you have no idea of what information your "missus" may have inadvertently divulged. As Judge Judy says, "hearsay doesn't count".

Oryx wrote: »

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence, it is a story. 'Man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest' is kinda how readings go. Particularly when they are being relayed to someone else after the fact. But if people want to visit these guys, (and people always will) then the best thing they can do is be informed about it. Understand how fraud works. Know the difference between Barnum statements and real fact. Know that they can stop a reading and not pay. Know that the psychic has no power over them. I've seen people damaged and fearful years after a reading, from some throwaway comment the psychic said. So quite apart from the monetary aspect, these people do wield power over their clients.

I don't think the whole area should be outlawed. Most people here have come down hard on all psychic stuff because they feel it is all bunk. Well so is religion, but we live and let live in that respect (if you discount religious wars, obvs). But within the psychic area are nice people who are just a bit woooo. Or regular people who've had weird things happen. People who meditate and talk to angels in order to get through the day. Not much worse than taking prozac, imo, if it works. Drinking and smoking is also bad for you but would you ban it outright? We don't live in a totalitarian state, we should let people have beliefs that are a bit out there, if it harms none. And thats the key thing. Some people do lots of harm. They get into this for money and they steal and they cheat. There should be a heck of a lot more control over what people can claim to do, and the money they charge to do it. (Tho I do know of one reader who had a revenue audit and had to shut up shop... and no, she didnt see it coming).

nice people who fraudulently take money off the easily conned? real nice people so.