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New changes to regulations from 1st Sep dilemma

13

Comments

  • #62
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    kaff wrote: »
    Number of builders/advisors are saying that, 24" is mad and the Enginner is only convering himself - any advice please as to what we can do?? Thanks

    Ask those advisors to give you the design and to stand over it, certify it with their PI insurance, and then see how many of those advisors will still give you advice.

    Do what your engineer says.


  • #63
    kaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭kaff


    but would one not know from experience what is the standard requirement?


  • #64
    kaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭kaff


    See this is what I mean, you quote 'stand over it' - at the end of the day, is the engineer just covering himself - what about the extra cost for us?


  • #65
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    kaff wrote: »
    but would one not know from experience what is the standard requirement?

    There is no standard requirement when it comes to soft ground. Go build it to your advisors detail and see who will sign off on it and who you will,chase in 6 months when your house starts sinking like a ship that has just hit an ice berg!
    kaff wrote: »
    See this is what I mean, you quote 'stand over it' - at the end of the day, is the engineer just covering himself - what about the extra cost for us?

    The extra cost to you was exposed by the possible lack of site assessment prior to construction, where you may have been able to reduce the footprint to suit your budget (subject to planning of course).

    These things happen, the engineer is not just increasing the depth of your foundation just to "cover himself".


  • #66
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,226 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    you are ALWAYS free to pay for a second opinion


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  • #67
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,896 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    In the past I tended to walk away from client's like this. If there are too many advisors on the job, it is a nightmare plus if the client is querying structural designs based on what the neighbour leaning over the fence is saying, in general those are the type of clients who will never comply with any of the regulations in force since around 2008.


  • #68
    Strolling Bones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Strolling Bones


    kaff wrote: »
    See this is what I mean, you quote 'stand over it' - at the end of the day, is the engineer just covering himself - what about the extra cost for us?

    If you behaved like this with me you would quickly be in need of another certifier.


  • #69
    overshoot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,314 ✭✭✭overshoot


    kaff wrote: »
    but would one not know from experience what is the standard requirement?
    different ground conditions have different requirements. The engineer is "covering himself" by redesigning the foundation, making it fit for purpose for poorer conditions than expected. Surely he would have used this design from the start if he was just throwing out any safe foundation spec?
    foundations are the very LAST area you want to even consider skimping on. Think what that will cost you if it isnt fit for purpose.


  • #70
    Strolling Bones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Strolling Bones


    overshoot wrote: »
    Think what that will cost you if it isnt fit for purpose.

    Thats what the engineers insurance is for - right kaff?
    He gets paid the big bucks for that.


  • #71
    kaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭kaff


    Thank you all for your advice!!! I presume you are mostly Engineers. We are going for the second opionion and at the end of the day - we won't be skimping on the foundations but it's dissapointing to have the extra cost as well as the Engineers 'STANDARD' RIP OFF FEES!!!!


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  • #72
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,147 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    Kaff have a bit more cop-on than to slag your fellow board members liveyhoods, while thanking your fellow board members for their help with your questions


  • #73
    Strolling Bones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Strolling Bones


    Kaff

    1. You will pay for a real life second opinion - you got ours free here.

    2. Perhaps you prefer advice from the untrained and you can get that here free too if you wait long enough. Someone is bound sooner or later to post here to agree with your real life non certifying engineer advisors. Perhaps we should leave you to the likes of them if you choose to continue to post here.

    3 You seem stressed now. Keep it up and you won't make it to wall plate.


  • #74
    stickybookmark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    kaff wrote: »
    Hi, I dont have all the 'building jargon' in relation to building a house BUT quick question...we have just started to buld our new house, 2700sq ft I think!! After digging the Foundation out, Engineer said that the soil under the sun room is soft so instead of 18" of concrete - he has advised 24" of concrete! Number of builders/advisors are saying that, 24" is mad and the Enginner is only convering himself - any advice please as to what we can do?? Thanks

    Try to look on the positive side at least it was identified on time to do something about it.
    My engineer did a site suitability test before any work commenced and from that he said it was suitable for 'standard' foundations. I'm guessing your eng did the same but then discovered the soil under 1 particular area is different to where he did the pre-commencement soil test?


  • #75
    kaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭kaff


    Just letting off 'bit of steam' re Engineers Fees - didn't personalize it in anyway!!

    Yes, it was under the sun room that the problem with the soil is. And yes, thankfully we have got it in time. And yes, maybe a bit stressed out but more so for my husband, even though he's remaining calm, just feel sorry for him that his guesstimated budget has rocketed ALREADY!!!

    We haven't given grief to the engineer in any form but glad we got a second opinion.


  • #76
    Strolling Bones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Strolling Bones


    kaff wrote: »
    Just letting off 'bit of steam' re Engineers Fees - didn't personalize it in anyway!!

    Agreed
    the Engineers 'STANDARD' RIP OFF FEES!!!!

    Is pretty indescriminate
    kaff wrote: »
    And yes, thankfully we have got it in time.

    Your engineer caught it in time and you are not a bit thankful to him/her but you should be.
    kaff wrote: »
    just feel sorry for him that his guesstimated budget has rocketed ALREADY!!!

    What's wrong that that pitcure .....
    kaff wrote: »
    We haven't given grief to the engineer in any form but glad we got a second opinion.

    Nor should you have and you are showing lousy faith here.

    .


  • #77
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    kaff wrote: »
    Just letting off 'bit of steam' re Engineers Fees - didn't personalize it in anyway!!

    Did you agree fees before you started? Its these things why you ahve the engineer in the first place!
    kaff wrote: »
    Yes, it was under the sun room that the problem with the soil is. And yes, thankfully we have got it in time.

    Your Engineer should be thanked, all you did was question him after he found a problem.
    kaff wrote: »
    my husband, even though he's remaining calm, just feel sorry for him that his guesstimated budget has rocketed ALREADY!!!

    How have his figures rocketed already? How did he come up with his original figure?
    kaff wrote: »
    We haven't given grief to the engineer in any form but glad we got a second opinion.

    What did the second opinion contain? Who did you get it from?

    Anyway, best of luck with your build. If you want advice in the future, you may very well have to respect the content that people on here post or they will very quickly ignore you, and there are many people on here with a wealth of knowledge that can help you in so many ways.


  • #78
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,226 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    just one short comment, if going from 18" to 24" in a concrete foundation has caused the "guesstimated" budget to sky rocket... says more about the initial guesstimate than anything else.

    the foundations are the least expensive element of structure, so i hope the maths have been done properly on the above ground works!!


  • #79
    kaff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭kaff


    Thanks for all your advice - I do appreciate same and apologies if anyone was offended - not intended. Anyhow, looks like I better sign off cos maybe I dont have enough info to warrant what I am trying to say and obviously causing offence but not intentional.


  • #80
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,147 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    kaff wrote: »
    Thanks for all your advice - I do appreciate same and apologies if anyone was offended - not intended. Anyhow, looks like I better sign off cos maybe I dont have enough info to warrant what I am trying to say and obviously causing offence but not intentional.

    Kaff
    You are welcome to ask questions, I mean that sincerely.

    Perhaps read the forum charter http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055036302

    Welcome to the C&P forum


  • #81
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    kaff wrote: »
    Thanks for all your advice - I do appreciate same and apologies if anyone was offended - not intended. Anyhow, looks like I better sign off cos maybe I dont have enough info to warrant what I am trying to say and obviously causing offence but not intentional.

    Don't sign off. Get the info and come back. You will learn from it too ;)
    Take photos of your build. It might help you if you share them or create a thread of your own and you can put them all in one place for when it's complete.


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  • #82
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,721 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    kaff wrote: »
    Hi, I dont have all the 'building jargon' in relation to building a house BUT quick question...we have just started to buld our new house, 2700sq ft I think!! After digging the Foundation out, Engineer said that the soil under the sun room is soft so instead of 18" of concrete - he has advised 24" of concrete! Number of builders/advisors are saying that, 24" is mad and the Enginner is only convering himself - any advice please as to what we can do?? Thanks

    Whilst that it is more than likely true to an extent, more importantly he's covering YOU.

    I assume you don't want the sunroom to move/subside etc, right....... ?? ;)

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #83
    cmd12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17 ✭cmd12


    for anyone in louth i was just talking to the local council and the advised me to hold off for a few days until system is updated.
    don't know if this applies to all counties but might be worth checking as i was told it could go in on the old system.
    the minister is only signing this today so it may take a few days to update the system i was told.
    forewarned is forearmed


  • #84
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    cmd12 wrote: »
    for anyone in louth i was just talking to the local council and the advised me to hold off for a few days until system is updated.
    don't know if this applies to all counties but might be worth checking as i was told it could go in on the old system.
    the minister is only signing this today so it may take a few days to update the system i was told.
    forewarned is forearmed

    It's the same throughout the country.
    Minister is supposed to be signing the legislation this afternoon and then the relaxed regulations are in force from 1st Sept onwards.

    How the LA deals with the applications will be their job to figure out. It may be arcade of manual applications and the admin teams will have to manually enter the details.


  • #85
    cmd12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17 ✭cmd12


    okie dokie thanks for that
    we will see where it all leads us


  • #86
    Strolling Bones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Strolling Bones


    cmd12 wrote: »
    okie dokie thanks for that
    we will see where it all leads us

    FG get swept back into government on a wave of self building gratitude


  • #87
    stickybookmark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭stickybookmark


    kceire wrote: »
    It's the same throughout the country.
    Minister is supposed to be signing the legislation this afternoon and then the relaxed regulations are in force from 1st Sept onwards.

    How the LA deals with the applications will be their job to figure out. It may be arcade of manual applications and the admin teams will have to manually enter the details.

    Thought the online BCMS was a Nationwide system?


  • #88
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,721 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Strolling Bones wrote: »
    FG get swept back into government on a wave of self building gratitude

    Ha, LOL, there's not THAT many one offs being built...........they're going to need a bigger boat vote......... :D

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #89
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    stickybookmark wrote: »
    Thought the online BCMS was a Nationwide system?

    It is.
    But a manual operating procedure will be down to each LA until the BCMS system has been updated for the new regulations I would imagine.

    Remember that each LA's interpretation of the BCA is still up to itself. Some LA's were using the cumulative areas for long and short forms and some weren't since SI9.


  • #90
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 41,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Both documents attched


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  • #91
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,533 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    One slightly bizarre bit in those advice notes from the DECLG...see Section 3.5 where it says:

    Homeowners should weigh up carefully the implications of a decision to
    opt out of the statutory certification process....

    ...and...

    Homeowners should appraise themselves of any potential cost or other implications that may arise as a result of choosing to opt out of the statutory certification process. Prior to deciding on whether or not to avail of the opt out option, it is recommended that a homeowner should consult with their solicitor.

    I wonder what the DECLG are trying to suggest by these statements! The use of the word 'implications' is a little sinister?

    Don't come back to us if you find out in 10 years that your home/home with extension is worth less if you do 'opt out' of full certification?


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