New changes to regulations from 1st Sep dilemma

cmd12

It's just a question , I've had a quick glance through, and I've two quick questions
If I get my house certified at 3 stages let's say
stage 1 :foundations poured , , dead building in
Stage 2 : wall plate level and roof on before windows are in
Stage 3 : complete as most of the other parts will be able to be vied from this stage

Does this still now class as a certified house?

And

What does section 3.2 part c mean?

A homeowner who wishes to avail of this facility must sign a form of “Declaration of Intention to Opt Out of Statutory Certification” which may be obtained online via the BCMS or from the local building control authority. This form must accompany the documents submitted to the building control authority when notifying them that works are about to commence which will include the following:-
(a) a Commencement Notice and the relevant fee of €30 per building;
(b) a Declaration of Intention to opt out of Statutory Certification, signed by
the building owner;
(c) such plans, calculations, specifications and particulars as are necessary
to outline how the proposed dwelling house or domestic extension will comply with the relevant requirements of the Second Schedule to the Building Regulations; These will typically include -
(i) general arrangement drawings,
(ii) a schedule of compliance documents, as designed or to be prepared at a later date,
(iii) the BCMS assessment of the proposed approach to compliance, normally completed online,
(d) a Notice of Assignment of

My apologies for a long post if the moderator wishes to edit this or remove I understand

DOCARCH

cmd12 wrote: »

If I get my house certified at 3 stages let's say
stage 1 :foundations poured , , dead building in
Stage 2 : wall plate level and roof on before windows are in
Stage 3 : complete as most of the other parts will be able to be vied from this stage

Does this still now class as a certified house?

It does, if an Assigned Certifier is willing to sign off/certify (absolute) compliance with all parts of the Building Regulations based on just 3 visits.

The reality is that no Assigned Certifier (in their right mind) would/could sign off/certify (absolute) compliance based on 3 visits. A minimum of 10 visits (or more) would be required (in my opinion).

mickdw

cmd12 wrote: »

It's just a question , I've had a quick glance through, and I've two quick questions
If I get my house certified at 3 stages let's say
stage 1 :foundations poured , , dead building in
Stage 2 : wall plate level and roof on before windows are in
Stage 3 : complete as most of the other parts will be able to be vied from this stage

Does this still now class as a certified house?

And

What does section 3.2 part c mean?

A homeowner who wishes to avail of this facility must sign a form of “Declaration of Intention to Opt Out of Statutory Certification” which may be obtained online via the BCMS or from the local building control authority. This form must accompany the documents submitted to the building control authority when notifying them that works are about to commence which will include the following:-
(a) a Commencement Notice and the relevant fee of €30 per building;
(b) a Declaration of Intention to opt out of Statutory Certification, signed by
the building owner;
(c) such plans, calculations, specifications and particulars as are necessary
to outline how the proposed dwelling house or domestic extension will comply with the relevant requirements of the Second Schedule to the Building Regulations; These will typically include -
(i) general arrangement drawings,
(ii) a schedule of compliance documents, as designed or to be prepared at a later date,
(iii) the BCMS assessment of the proposed approach to compliance, normally completed online,
(d) a Notice of Assignment of

My apologies for a long post if the moderator wishes to edit this or remove I understand

In order to go the way you describe with a new build, you will be signing the opt out cert at commencement so no, it will not be a certified house in terms of having a compliance cert lodged on file with the council on completion. It will however be certified as to a standard similar to all houses up to march 2014 if not better. You will be bound to submit building drawings on commencement, You will be bound to submit BER details showing compliance with Part L etc. If you have the Engineer on board for the duration, he will issue opinion on compliance as has always been issued and as such I dont see the issue with sales or anything. The only thing that will unsettle this arrangement is if the banks decide to require full certification. Just on a side note, the idea of the 3 inspections is abit of a fantasy. I have not been certifying works under the assigned certifier regime but am still involved in ongoing builds commenced prior to this and as long as Ive been doing this work, Ive never just visited a house 3 times. A current housing project, admittedly quite substantial needs very frequent visits.

cmd12

Understood it was just used as an example.
Thank you both for your help.

893bet

Edit. Missed a page of discussion. Never mind!

cmd12

Was talking to my local council and they said if i upload a signed copy of the (deceleration of intention to opt out of statutory certification) signed with all other documents regarding the 2 weeks notice to commence it "should" go through on the new legislation.
Ive rang the bcms to confirm this but i cant get anybody willing to answer the phone

Gumbo

cmd12 wrote: »

Was talking to my local council and they said if i upload a signed copy of the (deceleration of intention to opt out of statutory certification) signed with all other documents regarding the 2 weeks notice to commence it "should" go through on the new legislation.
Ive rang the bcms to confirm this but i cant get anybody willing to answer the phone

Do what your local building control dept tell you. They are the ones that validate it after all, not the BCMS.

cmd12

No problems, thank you again for the help
Typical Ireland its a minefield when something new comes out

sydthebeat

cmd12 wrote: »

No problems, thank you again for the help
Typical Ireland its a minefield when something new comes out

something new? nah

http://corporate.nca.ie/eng/Research_Zone/Reports/Home_Construction/NCA-Home-construction-Volume-5.pdf

the problem is they continually keep messing up their attempts to resolve the issues... due to the fact they continue to deny the glaring "elephant in the room" problems.

BryanF

sydthebeat wrote: »

something new? nah

http://corporate.nca.ie/eng/Research_Zone/Reports/Home_Construction/NCA-Home-construction-Volume-5.pdf

the problem is they continually keep messing up their attempts to resolve the issues... due to the fact they continue to deny the glaring "elephant in the room" problems.

Another 44 pages to read. With no resolution at the end😖

cmd12

BryanF wrote: »

Another 44 pages to read. With no resolution at the end😖

Ah here for #%¥ sake!
Emm I'll let ye get onto that one and ya might come back with just the nuts and bolts of it for us ; )
I think personally for the first while it's just a matter of firing all the stuff at them and then they will come back to you with what is wrong .

Sparkyp1981

A two tier market? What about all the houses built pre certification? Are they going to be categorised as poorly built also?

Strolling Bones

Sparkyp1981 wrote: »

A two tier market? What about all the houses built pre certification? Are they going to be categorised as poorly built also?

Houses will continue to be bought and sold just as before. People will want what they want and they will get what they want depending on the the contemporary attitude of the lenders. When banks don't really want to lend certs will be an issue and when they really do want to lend - they won't.

mickdw

To be quite honest, I've been supervising house builds commenced prior to si9 that are far more compliant with the regs in general than many that are being built now with AC.
I don't think the banks will give a damn tbh.
Certainly, in the last 6 months I commenced mortgage drawdown on a house commenced in Feb 14 and was quite worried that someone in the bank might be insisting on AC for no other reason than they may have been issued new forms or internal memo etc.
They dont seem to be concerned or even aware. Once they have an engineer with insurance certifying that he will issue opinion on compliance, all seems to be good.

Some of the work I see going on is shocking and these are commenced under si9.
Engineers from larger businesses not visiting site at all. No detailing of important construction joints, No client awareness of Part L requirements on self builds yet they are plastering out the build. Not so much as a nod towards airtightness etc
imo these engineers are leaving themselves wide open.

Sparkyp1981

I have spoken to some people in the banking/mortgage sector and they have indicated that there bank will be lending without the requirements of certification in the near future

Chemical Byrne

Im wondering if a chartered engineer turned developer is building a scheme of houses, or even his own house, would there be any conflict of interest clause barring him from certifying houses which he has designed and is overseeing the construction of?

stickybookmark

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Im wondering if a chartered engineer turned developer is building a scheme of houses, or even his own house, would there be any conflict of interest clause barring him from certifying houses which he has designed and is overseeing the construction of?

I doubt it considering the BCMS system which was in place between March 2014 and Sept 2015 when you were filling in who the Assigned Certifier was there was a box you could tick called ''Nominate myself for this role'' just like there was for the Builder role as well.

Chemical Byrne

Sweet.

Strolling Bones

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Sweet.

Not when you are the punter.
and
Not when the stated political aim was to avoid another Priory Hall.

stickybookmark

I should add - that box was there if you were applying for a single dwelling. Not sure about a scheme of houses

galwaytt

Strolling Bones wrote: »

..Not when the stated political aim was to avoid another Priory Hall.

...that may be the stated aim. The actual aim was to avoid the State getting caught for millions of € in the future - it actually had nothing to do with Standards one way or the other.....