Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

.ak · 24-08-2015 02:53PM

kingtiger wrote: »

Right lads, I have this from a very reliable source that has never steered me wrong

Healy is out of the WC!!!

Here is all the players cut from the provisional squad

Healy / Tuohy / Conan

Boss / Marmion / Gilroy / Reid / Felix Jones / Darcy / Cave

only bringing two Scrum Halves (Madigan in as cover)

In fairness your source has been spot on before.

That's very disappointing .. Healy being cut now must mean he's in a bad way, hope it's not serious...

Cruel to be denied a Lions test and a RWC.

.ak · 24-08-2015 02:54PM

connachta wrote: »

Who's the 3rd LH for you in the 1st option? Bent?:rolleyes:

If I do understand your logic 6 props with Healy, 5 without him. I don't think this opinion is better than mine. If we lose our main element in the front-row, you're going with only 4 props and one ambidextrous? Will be costly..So costly

If Healy isn't brought they'll just replace him with Kilcoyne. The others won't be shuffled around.

Quin_Dub · 24-08-2015 02:57PM

kingtiger wrote: »

Right lads, I have this from a very reliable source that has never steered me wrong

Healy is out of the WC!!!

Here is all the players cut from the provisional squad

Healy / Tuohy / Conan

Boss / Marmion / Gilroy / Reid / Felix Jones / Darcy / Cave

only bringing two Scrum Halves (Madigan in as cover)

I can't see that happening to be honest..

Whatever about Australia doing it , they can given that they have Giteau there that has started multiple games at scrum-half in the past, we don't have that luxury at all...

So that means that Murray/Reddan are in the match-day squad for every single game or you take the huge risk and have Madigan as your cover in the Canada/Romania games and Reddan gets knock early on..

Even more of a risk..Reddan on Murray get a slight know just before the France game (or later rounds) and you go into one of those games with Madigan as your cover....

It's not the kind of risk I'd see JS taking given his meticulous approach...

total former · 24-08-2015 02:58PM

connachta wrote: »

Who's the 3rd LH for you in the 1st option? Bent?:rolleyes:

If I do understand your logic 6 props with Healy, 5 without him. I don't think this opinion is better than mine. If we lose our main element in the front-row, you're going with only 4 props and one ambidextrous? Will be costly..So costly

Yes, Bent. He's a very good loose head.

I don't think my opinion is better than yours, I think it's what Joe will do.

Buckley will not feature.

connachta · 24-08-2015 03:01PM

.ak wrote: »

If Healy isn't brought they'll just replace him with Kilcoyne. The others won't be shuffled around.

Which would mean

McGrath Killer (Bent)
Ross Moore (Bent)
2SH
1 useless utility back whereas most of our wigers can cover centre

I'd rather prefer

McGrath Killer Buckley
Ross Moore White
2SH

I don't say this is gonna happen, but stop claiming it's "all over the place",

Zzippy · 24-08-2015 03:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Who are the 3% dropping Murray and Sexton

That would be Pierre, Gianluigi and Wayne Barnes. He's afraid of Sexto...

.ak · 24-08-2015 03:04PM

connachta wrote: »

Which would mean

McGrath Killer (Bent)
Ross Moore (Bent)
2SH
1 useless utility back whereas most of our wigers can cover centre

I'd rather prefer

McGrath Killer Buckley
Ross Moore White
2SH

I don't say this is gonna happen, but stop claiming it's "all over the place",

I didn't claim it was all over the place.

But more than likely we were brining 5 props.

I don't think that'll change just because one of them has to pull out.

connachta · 24-08-2015 03:14PM

.ak wrote: »

I didn't claim it was all over the place.

But more than likely we were brining 5 props.

I don't think that'll change just because one of them has to pull out.

It's not just one of them, it's the best. We could afford to have 1 world-class player, 2 quality back-ups, and 2 covering solutions. But we can't just have 2 quality back-ups, and 3 covering solutions. 2 more "specialists" instead of 1 ambidextrous would give more options, more stability, I'd be reassured

Larbre34 · 24-08-2015 03:16PM

I thought for months that 2 SH's would be the way he would go, neither Boss nor Marmion deserve to travel especially.

I don't see why that adds up to a sixth prop, the reduction in the backs should enable one of Jones, D Kearney, McFadden, Trimble etc to travel, then if a replacement SH is needed mid-tournament, the under-performer in the outside backs can be sacrificed.

McGrath, Kilcoyne, Ross, White and Bent is enough.

.ak · 24-08-2015 03:18PM

connachta wrote: »

It's not just one of them, it's the best. We could afford to have 1 world-class player, 2 quality back-ups, and 2 covering solutions. But we can't just have 2 quality back-ups, and 3 covering solutions. 2 more "specialists" instead of 1 ambidextrous would give more options, more stability, I'd be reassured

Ah I think McGrath is up there. It's a massive step down from Healy but I think he'll hold his own against the best. I don't believe Schmidt would mess around with the make up of the squad for that reason. He's always been about developing guys that can step in and do the same role. Like for like.

Synode · 24-08-2015 03:19PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

then if a replacement SH is needed mid-tournament, the under-performer in the outside backs can be sacrificed.

Can someone be replaced without being injured? Didn't think they could

aimee1 · 24-08-2015 03:20PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

I thought for months that 2 SH's would be the way he would go, neither Boss nor Marmion deserve to travel especially.

I don't see why that adds up to a sixth prop, the reduction in the backs should enable one of Jones, D Kearney, McFadden, Trimble etc to travel, then if a replacement SH is needed mid-tournament, the under-performer in the outside backs can be sacrificed.

McGrath, Kilcoyne, Ross, White and Bent is enough.

I would guess moore would go if fit ahead of white. If a replacement SH is needed it will have to be an injury to murray or reddan

Thanos · 24-08-2015 03:21PM

Synode wrote: »

Can someone be replaced without being injured? Didn't think they could

Nothing that a good old kick to the knee would not solve..........

RoundBox11 · 24-08-2015 03:23PM

kingtiger wrote: »

I will put 50 quid on it, want to take the bet?

all barring injuries v Wales

Hmm, I had a quick look back and it seems your source is usually right! Apologies in that case. That's terrible if Healy is gone so.

Does that imply that Trimble is in the 31 man squad so?

It makes me sad to think what our pack would be like for the world cup if we had Healy and Ferris starting and firing on all cylinders. We'd have the most powerful pack in the world!

molloyjh · 24-08-2015 03:23PM

Let's just look at the numbers for a second here:

5 props
3 hookers
4 locks
5 back rows

17 forwards

2 scrummies
3 out-halves (one who covers a load of other positions)
3 centres (Henshaw, Payne and Earls)
3 wingers (Fitz, Bowe and Trimble/D Kearney)
2 FBs (R Kearney/Zebo)

13 backs

That's 30 players in total. We've 1 more spot. The options are to bring a 6th prop, a 3rd SH, a 2nd dedicated inside centre or an extra outside back.

Of all of those options surely to God an extra prop is the bottom of the priority list when you have the option of a prop who can scrummage on both sides?

aimee1 · 24-08-2015 03:24PM

Thanos wrote: »

Nothing that a good old kick to the knee would not solve..........

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fdejJGbaRV8/TCBHCFZUDVI/AAAAAAAAAws/BhTv5saQE3I/s1600/24.png

Thanos · 24-08-2015 03:26PM

aimee1 wrote: »

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fdejJGbaRV8/TCBHCFZUDVI/AAAAAAAAAws/BhTv5saQE3I/s1600/24.png

Now that's how to take one for the team........

connachta · 24-08-2015 03:26PM

molloyjh wrote: »

That's 30 players in total. We've 1 more spot. The options are to bring a 6th prop, a 3rd SH, a 2nd dedicated inside centre or an extra outside back.

Of all of those options surely to God an extra prop is the bottom of the priority list when you have the option of a prop who can scrummage on both sides?

Hell no, when you have utility backs who have experience to play centre, and when you'll face 3 of the best scrums by increasing order Italy, France and Argentina/N-Z

RoundBox11 · 24-08-2015 03:27PM

molloyjh wrote: »

Let's just look at the numbers for a second here:

5 props
3 hookers
4 locks
5 back rows
17 forwards

2 scrummies
3 out-halves (one who covers a load of other positions)
3 centres (Henshaw, Payne and Earls)
3 wingers (Fitz, Bowe and Trimble/D Kearney)
2 FBs (R Kearney/Zebo)
13 backs

That's 30 players in total. We've 1 more spot. The options are to bring a 6th prop, a 3rd SH, a 2nd dedicated inside centre or an extra outside back.

Of all of those options surely to God an extra prop is the bottom of the priority list when you have the option of a prop who can scrummage on both sides?

In that case would definitely be taking Cave as the extra man considering both Earls and Zebo are better on the wing anyway so we already have wings well covered.

Although looking at it that way, having an extra slot to play around with makes leaving the third SH behind just seem mad to me

Larbre34 · 24-08-2015 03:27PM

Synode wrote: »

Can someone be replaced without being injured? Didn't think they could

Technically no, but it could be arranged. In any case, if an SH is injured and we need another called up, its straightforward.

molloyjh · 24-08-2015 03:29PM

connachta wrote: »

Hell no, when you have utility backs who have experience to play centre, and when you'll face 3 of the best scrums by increasing order Italy, France and Argentina/N-Z

If we're down to our 3rd choice prop in that case we're already goosed. And players can be replaced if they are injured so that can be managed to a degree. It's madness to fill an extra spot in the squad that's well covered to the detriment of at least 1, if not 2 or 3, other positions. We will be travelling with 5 props, no more. And it will be the right decision, even if it does mean leaving the Connacht man at home.

Podge_irl · 24-08-2015 03:31PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Technically no, but it could be arranged. In any case, if an SH is injured and we need another called up, its straightforward.

Except there is a 48 hour cooldown window and the injured player can't return. So what do we do if Murray gets a minor soft tissue injury and has to sit out for a week? Or if one of them tweaks something the day before a match.

It's not a good idea and I would be genuinely astounded if such a careful planner as Schmidt did it.

The Lost Sheep · 24-08-2015 03:31PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

I thought for months that 2 SH's would be the way he would go, neither Boss nor Marmion deserve to travel especially.

I don't see why that adds up to a sixth prop, the reduction in the backs should enable one of Jones, D Kearney, McFadden, Trimble etc to travel, then if a replacement SH is needed mid-tournament, the under-performer in the outside backs can be sacrificed.

McGrath, Kilcoyne, Ross, White and Bent is enough.

2 SHs isn't really enough and is a huge risk. Players can only be replaced once named in the 31 if injured. You cant replace players for tactical reasons

RoundBox11 · 24-08-2015 03:34PM

I find it totally nuts that a coach who had a 'no offloading' rule would take such a massive risk and only bring 2 scrum halves.

I just really don't see it

molloyjh · 24-08-2015 03:36PM

RoundBox11 wrote: »

In that case would definitely be taking Cave as the extra man considering both Earls and Zebo are better on the wing anyway so we already have wings well covered.

Although looking at it that way, having an extra slot to play around with makes leaving the third SH behind just seem mad to me

Yeah for me it's a choice between a back-up 12 or a third choice 9. I'm not sure I can call it either way really. We could get away with 2 scrum-halves and Mads as cover. We should be well enough ahead of Canada and Romania before the SH needs to be changed. Murray won't be taking part until Italy and if he's out for any more than 2 weeks he'll have to be replaced anyway. If that happens Redser will just need to manage 80 minutes.

It's a risk, but so is leaving the centres or back 3 a little light. For example if we play Henshaw in one of the earlier games and he gets injured we could be looking at Mads at 12 etc.

connachta · 24-08-2015 03:36PM

molloyjh wrote: »

If we're down to our 3rd choice prop in that case we're already goosed. And players can be replaced if they are injured so that can be managed to a degree. It's madness to fill an extra spot in the squad that's well covered to the detriment of at least 1, if not 2 or 3, other positions. We will be travelling with 5 props, no more. And it will be the right decision, even if it does mean leaving the Connacht man at home.

Honnestly is wasn't at all the hidden reason. I'd prefer White/Buckley stay in the West. Just fairly prefer 6 specialist props than Bent and Cave.

.ak · 24-08-2015 03:36PM

RoundBox11 wrote: »

I find it totally nuts that a coach who had a 'no offloading' rule would take such a massive risk and only bring 2 scrum halves.

I just really don't see it

The two things aren't comparable at all. One is taking a calculated risk with squad selection, the other is asking players not to risk possession in a game.

There was no 'no offloading' rule, but he did encourage players to do the basic thing over the flashy thing. Nobody was banned from expressing themselves. Zebo threw a dodgy offload in the AIs but was picked for the 1st team in the 6N for example.

molloyjh · 24-08-2015 03:37PM

kingtiger wrote: »

Right lads, I have this from a very reliable source that has never steered me wrong

Healy is out of the WC!!!

Here is all the players cut from the provisional squad

Healy / Tuohy / Conan

Boss / Marmion / Gilroy / Reid / Felix Jones / Darcy / Cave

only bringing two Scrum Halves (Madigan in as cover)

kingtigers sources have been right to date so I believe this, as much as I don't want to....

RoundBox11 · 24-08-2015 03:40PM

.ak wrote: »

The two things aren't comparable at all. One is taking a calculated risk with squad selection, the other is asking players not to risk possession in a game.

There was no 'no offloading' rule, but he did encourage players to do the basic thing over the flashy thing. Nobody was banned from expressing themselves. Zebo threw a dodgy offload in the AIs but was picked for the 1st team in the 6N for example.

Oh come on you know what I mean. He's not the type of coach to take unnecessary risks.

connachta · 24-08-2015 03:42PM

connachta wrote: »

Honnestly is wasn't at all the hidden reason. I'd prefer White/Buckley stay in the West. Just fairly prefer 6 specialist props than Bent and Cave.

And Molloyjh don't be such a prosecutor:pac:

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread IV

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