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DART+ (DART Expansion)

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Comments

  • #2302
    Schadenfreudia
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Schadenfreudia


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Does the DU not go to Heuston, just a short trip on th red line or a stiff walk up the hill?

    I was about to reply that James doesn't cover the car access angle when I remembered this is a DU thread and not a Children's Hospital one! ;)


  • #2303
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    As an aside to this conversation but on the topic(-ish) of the thread, who the hell taking the Luas to the hospital? :confused:

    Thousands of staff and non emergancy patients for follow up appointments, meeting with consultants, surgeries etc. emergency room patients are only a small fraction of people in a hospital that size at any given time.


  • #2304
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    markpb wrote: »
    I do it every time we go to Crumlin (Green Line + bus) for my daughters check-up. I'd imagine lots of staff do the same. People seem to have this odd image that people only enter hospitals through A&E.
    Grandeeod wrote: »
    We did Kildare line + luas and walk to Temple Street for check ups.
    cgcsb wrote: »
    Thousands of staff and non emergancy patients for follow up appointments, meeting with consultants, surgeries etc. emergency room patients are only a small fraction of people in a hospital that size at any given time.

    I just don't understand I suppose how building a hospital at Blanch relates to the DART or Luas?

    Isn't that how people are currently getting to James/Mater/etc.?


  • #2305
    Schadenfreudia
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Schadenfreudia


    Freudia wrote: »
    I just don't understand I suppose how building a hospital at Blanch relates to the DART or Luas?

    Isn't that how people are currently getting to James/Mater/etc.?

    And don't you have another thread somewhere teasing out that whole topic?

    Just build at James's (Irish Times permitting) and get back to DU!


  • #2306
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Schadenfreudia wrote: »
    And don't you have another thread somewhere teasing out that whole topic?

    Just build at James's (Irish Times permitting) and get back to DU!
    That's a bit rich considering you're the first person to bring it up in well over a year and probably the first person full stop to bring up the M50 on this thread in relation to same.

    DU is IMO significantly relevant to the NCH and is an extremely valid topic when considering why DU should be prioritised.


  • #2307
    Schadenfreudia
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Schadenfreudia


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    That's a bit rich considering you're the first person to bring it up in well over a year and probably the first person full stop to bring up the M50 on this thread in relation to same.

    DU is IMO significantly relevant to the NCH and is an extremely valid topic when considering why DU should be prioritised.

    I do not disagree with you...except the "a bit rich bit". ;)


  • #2308
    salmocab
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,409 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    whilst I was being a bit tongue in cheek mentioning the NCH on the DU thread in the first place, I think there is something to be said for linking transport infrastructure and other types of infrastructure. Yes the m50 can be a mess but Rialto is a mess too with little scope to improve, a hospital is likely to be in place for 50 to 100 years so transport infrastructure can be brought to it and improved as time goes on. The NCH is for the whole country not just Dublin which means that it needs to be accessed from outside the m50 as much as from inside it.


  • #2309
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The Times recons the Victorian Building on the quays is the site of the new Docklands Station. In previous plans the station had been to the north of the sxisting Spencer Dock luas stop.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/council-to-tender-for-design-of-12m-liffey-bridge-1.2329894

    "The new bridge will connect the old London and North Western Railway Company station on North Wall Quay to Forbes Street on Sir John Rogerson’s Quay on the south of the river and will be funded from levies collected through construction in the Dublin Docklands Strategic Development Zone (SDZ).
    The Victorian train station is the planned location of the proposed Dart Underground station. The Government has a month before planning permission expires on the underground line to decide whether it will go ahead."

    If the planned site for the station has changed, I have to say it's news to me. Does the times know something we don't or is it another case of journos gone rogue.


  • #2310
    noelfirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 635 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    The plans appear to be gone off the net, but I recall that there was to be a quayside front entrance to the underground Spencer Dock station via the old LNWR building. I think think the journalist has incorrectly conflated the two things together.


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  • #2311
    Jack Noble
    Registered Users Posts: 426 ✭✭Jack Noble


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The Times recons the Victorian Building on the quays is the site of the new Docklands Station. In previous plans the station had been to the north of the sxisting Spencer Dock luas stop.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/council-to-tender-for-design-of-12m-liffey-bridge-1.2329894

    "The new bridge will connect the old London and North Western Railway Company station on North Wall Quay to Forbes Street on Sir John Rogerson’s Quay on the south of the river and will be funded from levies collected through construction in the Dublin Docklands Strategic Development Zone (SDZ).
    The Victorian train station is the planned location of the proposed Dart Underground station. The Government has a month before planning permission expires on the underground line to decide whether it will go ahead."

    If the planned site for the station has changed, I have to say it's news to me. Does the times know something we don't or is it another case of journos gone rogue.


    From memory, the building mentioned in this IT report will house the underground station entrance from North Wall Quay. There will be a second overground entrance building beside the Luas stop at Spencer Dock.

    At the time of the application for the Dart Underground Railway Order, the planning notice was posted on the window of the building facing the river. I remember reading it at the time and thinking such an iconic railway building will make a great Dart station entrance on to the quay.

    Here's the archived Dart Underground Railway Order website:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20130130095342/http://www.dartundergroundrailwayorder.ie/

    Maybe someone can have a look and find the details because I'm up to my eyes in my Masters thesis which is due on Monday and I have no time to do anything else before then. I shouldn't even be posting this message.


  • #2312
    noelfirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 635 ✭✭✭noelfirl


    http://web.archive.org/web/20130130095342/http://www.dartundergroundrailwayorder.ie/assets/files/downloads/Railway_Works_Drawings/Area_106-RIVER_LIFFEY_TO_EAST_WALL/RO_Structure_Details/DU-ST_106_O-A_06.PDF

    This file has it. Entrance hall, escalators and underground walkway to ticket hall from LMS building.


  • #2313
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    salmocab wrote: »
    whilst I was being a bit tongue in cheek mentioning the NCH on the DU thread in the first place, I think there is something to be said for linking transport infrastructure and other types of infrastructure. Yes the m50 can be a mess but Rialto is a mess too with little scope to improve, a hospital is likely to be in place for 50 to 100 years so transport infrastructure can be brought to it and improved as time goes on. The NCH is for the whole country not just Dublin which means that it needs to be accessed from outside the m50 as much as from inside it.

    Parking on one or both sides of the road could removed -- bingo, new traffic lane into the NCH.


  • #2314
    McAlban
    Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭McAlban


    Poses the question though, what are they going to do with the rest of the building. Isn' it a listed building along with the Wool Store and the Hotel next door?

    Always Loved North Wall station, would love to see a decent restoration. I Remember my uncle working in there in the 80's/90's when there was still some freight going in and out.


  • #2315
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭Reuben1210


    According to a thread on skyscraper city, they are keeping both and restoring them, and planning permission has gone in for a big development on the rest of that block...


  • #2316
    1huge1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,174 ✭✭✭1huge1


    Ya. skyscraper city have a good discussion involving it.

    Full schematics for the building here

    http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=515490&page=88 (about half way down)


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  • #2317
    McAlban
    Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭McAlban


    Good to hear. I always think it's a shame when a station is repurposed or left derelict. These Victorian Buildings should be preserved as much as possible I think. And When a Refurbishment is done right it can only add to the quality of the building.

    http://archiseek.com/2010/irish-rail-freight-offices-north-wall-quay-dublin/


  • #2318
    hardy_buck
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭hardy_buck


    Does the RPO expire at the end of September or the start? There doesn't appear to be much movement in either case which leads me to fear the worst....


  • #2319
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    It's late september


  • #2320
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭Reuben1210


    hardy_buck wrote: »
    Does the RPO expire at the end of September or the start? There doesn't appear to be much movement in either case which leads me to fear the worst....

    Really hoping common sense prevails, and they set aside the money to build this....transformative for transport in the country...


  • #2321
    hardy_buck
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭hardy_buck


    Reuben1210 wrote: »
    Really hoping common sense prevails, and they set aside the money to build this....transformative for transport in the country...

    You're not the only one, however I have a sinking feeling when I see that the HSE are looking for another €1.4Bn+ http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0831/724663-health-hse/ and the government need a tax cut sweetener for the upcoming election :(


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  • #2322
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭Reuben1210


    hardy_buck wrote: »
    You're not the only one, however I have a sinking feeling when I see that the HSE are looking for another €1.4Bn+ http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0831/724663-health-hse/ and the government need a tax cut sweetener for the upcoming election :(

    oh great! :(


  • #2323
    Schadenfreudia
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Schadenfreudia


    hardy_buck wrote: »
    You're not the only one, however I have a sinking feeling when I see that the HSE are looking for another €1.4Bn+ http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0831/724663-health-hse/ and the government need a tax cut sweetener for the upcoming election :(

    If they simply go ahead with the CPO (€150 million) and protect the route that would be a major advance.

    They could kick the commitment to build a few years down the road.

    The important thing is not to go backwards at this stage....

    That would be criminal :mad:


  • #2324
    Ren2k7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭Ren2k7


    Reuben1210 wrote: »
    Really hoping common sense prevails, and they set aside the money to build this....transformative for transport in the country...

    Common sense doesn't exist within the collective minds of FGLAB.


  • #2325
    hardy_buck
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭hardy_buck


    Ren2k7 wrote: »
    Common sense doesn't exist within the collective minds of FGLAB.

    I don't see much(intelligent proposals anyways) about transport or infrastructure in the Manifestos of FF/SF/AAA/etc. either, this isn't so much a FG/LAB problem so much as it is a problem with the entire political structure and electorate...

    Anyhow let's not hijack this thread and turn into yet another 'gubbermint' bashing thread, this forum has enough of those.

    More to the point, I think the proposal to go ahead with the CPO and just sit on things sounds good. Is that legally acceptable in the eyes of the high court?


  • #2326
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭Reuben1210


    hardy_buck wrote: »
    I don't see much(intelligent proposals anyways) about transport or infrastructure in the Manifestos of FF/SF/AAA/etc. either, this isn't so much a FG/LAB problem so much as it is a problem with the entire political structure and electorate...

    Anyhow let's not hijack this thread and turn into yet another 'gubbermint' bashing thread, this forum has enough of those.

    More to the point, I think the proposal to go ahead with the CPO and just sit on things sounds good. Is that legally acceptable in the eyes of the high court?

    Was this done with metro north, givent the hundreds of millions spent, or was that just designs and consultancy?


  • #2327
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    best case scenario they start work on DU and kick the swords /airport option down the road, even if its 2/3 years. We have waited decades and the solution will be in place for decades. I read about the HSE earlier and the amount of other areas that are starved of funding, then we are in an election year, there is virtually nothing in the pot... My point being that giving go ahead to MN etc now wouldnt be on politically, resecure power and then early on in the term, do the correct thing, but not necessarily popular with the public thing (when you read about virtually every issue, the publics level of understanding is laughable) ...

    Would constructing a large multistorey car park at the Point depot be an option, for traffic coming from port tunnel, it would allow connection to red luas line, which will shortly connect to the green line, then onto Sandyford Business Park , Cherrywood etc. Large amounts commute via the M50 car park from north dublin to get to this location...

    It may be a solution to stop total gridlock until a permanent solution has been come up with...


  • #2328
    Van.Bosch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    best case scenario they start work on DU and kick the swords /airport option down the road, even if its 2/3 years. We have waited decades and the solution will be in place for decades. I read about the HSE earlier and the amount of other areas that are starved of funding, then we are in an election year, there is virtually nothing in the pot... My point being that giving go ahead to MN etc now wouldnt be on politically, resecure power and then early on in the term, do the correct thing, but not necessarily popular with the public thing (when you read about virtually every issue, the publics level of understanding is laughable) ...

    Would constructing a large multistorey car park at the Point depot be an option, for traffic coming from port tunnel, it would allow connection to red luas line, which will shortly connect to the green line, then onto Sandyford Business Park , Cherrywood etc. Large amounts commute via the M50 car park from north dublin to get to this location...

    It may be a solution to stop total gridlock until a permanent solution has been come up with...

    Would that just clog up the tunnel, so people in N Dub, would drive through the tunnel and then onto 2 trams to get to work? If they don't use the commuter line and then walk to green line I can't see them doing this.

    We also shouldn't be bringing more people into the centre.


  • #2329
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Would that just clog up the tunnel, so people in N Dub, would drive through the tunnel and then onto 2 trams to get to work? If they don't use the commuter line and then walk to green line I can't see them doing this.

    We also shouldn't be bringing more people into the centre.

    It wouldnt just be for that area, it would also be for people working in the docklands and city centre, you could easily walk from point depot or take luas red line, depending on where you are working...

    There is a maximum number of vehicles that can be in the tunnel at any one time, price it so that is always at the max usage. It could generate a fortune, that could then go onto pay for rail and other transport infrastructure...

    I mean a lot of traffic could potentially be taken off the existing N1 corridor between the port tunnel entrance and city centre... It might buy a few more years of non total gridlock...


  • #2330
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,814 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    The capacity of the tunnel is immense. A giant park and ride at the port is not really an option though. Quite apart from the space it would require and the cost of constructing, it would be hard to get cars into and out of their spaces fast enough. The car park itself would be a big traffic jam.


  • #2331
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    It wouldnt just be for that area, it would also be for people working in the docklands and city centre, you could easily walk from point depot or take luas red line, depending on where you are working...

    There is a maximum number of vehicles that can be in the tunnel at any one time, price it so that is always at the max usage. It could generate a fortune, that could then go onto pay for rail and other transport infrastructure...

    I mean a lot of traffic could potentially be taken off the existing N1 corridor between the port tunnel entrance and city centre... It might buy a few more years of non total gridlock...

    What happens to all that traffic when it exits the southern portal of the tunnel? Does it suddenly dissipate into the high capacity streets around the Point Depot?

    The only way that's workable is the P&R is at the northern end of the tunnel and they're bussed through the tunnel. Otherwise people will think they've come that far, why not drive the rest of the way?

    Even with that, asking people to park, bus and then luas won't be attractive to many people. If they have to park, bus, luas and then transfer to dart or green line luas, that's even less attractive.

    I agree the tunnel can be part of a solution but I haven't seen a good solution yet. I think the 41x, 33x and Swords Express buses are a good start though.

    Also don't forget that the tunnel operators won't be keen on increasing the volume through the tunnel too much because it will increase the chances of congestion or a crash both of which are major disadvantages for the primary users of the tunnel.


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  • #2332
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    like I said, much of it could park at the large car park. Where does it go, when the tens of thousands of cars currently funnel down the existing N1 to avoid the E10 toll.... currently there are thousands of cars driving into the city centre, through an old undercapacity residential areas to get to the city centre, this also holds up buses etc. We have a motorway running almost all the way in, that results in getting the cars off much congested streets, at least for most of the way. A lot of these people are in cars, due to the totally crap and pathetic transport options here...


  • #2333
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    like I said, much of it could park at the large car park. Where does it go, when the tens of thousands of cars currently funnel down the existing N1 to avoid the E10 toll....

    What do you think will happen if the toll is reduced?

    A - less people will drive into town
    B - more people will drive into town
    C - the same amount of people will drive, all of them moving to DPT and no-one new will be enticed by the empty streets of Drumcondra and decide to drive (instead of taking public transport or moving to an area poorly served by public transport because driving is now an option)


  • #2334
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    hardy_buck wrote: »
    You're not the only one, however I have a sinking feeling when I see that the HSE are looking for another €1.4Bn+ http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0831/724663-health-hse/ and the government need a tax cut sweetener for the upcoming election :(

    The dept of defense is also looking for 3 new ships, a rake of new aircraft and tanks, every department will want a boost in funding.


  • #2335
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Schadenfreudia wrote: »
    If they simply go ahead with the CPO (€150 million) and protect the route that would be a major advance.

    They could kick the commitment to build a few years down the road.

    The important thing is not to go backwards at this stage....

    That would be criminal :mad:

    with the planning permission expiring in 3 weeks time, we can't kick the can. It's either now or take multiple steps backward and have to get new planning approval.


  • #2336
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    best case scenario they start work on DU and kick the swords /airport option down the road, even if its 2/3 years. We have waited decades and the solution will be in place for decades. I read about the HSE earlier and the amount of other areas that are starved of funding, then we are in an election year, there is virtually nothing in the pot... My point being that giving go ahead to MN etc now wouldnt be on politically, resecure power and then early on in the term, do the correct thing, but not necessarily popular with the public thing (when you read about virtually every issue, the publics level of understanding is laughable) ...

    Public information comes from the herald and indo. Neither paper actually understand, or have taken the time to read about DARTu, many articles still insist that it's a connection between Heuston and Connolly :rolleyes:

    and that goal can be achieved by reopening the ppt :rolleyes:


  • #2337
    hardy_buck
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭hardy_buck


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Public information comes from the herald and indo. Neither paper actually understand, or have taken the time to read about DARTu, many articles still insist that it's a connection between Heuston and Connolly :rolleyes:

    and that goal can be achieved by reopening the ppt :rolleyes:

    I'll never for the life of me understand why the newspapers have such an axe to grind against capital expenditure in this country. At the very thought of a big project in our capital they are almost tripping over themselves to resist it, howling at the cost or disruption during building..

    One such example that makes me want to bang my (and the authors much, much harder) head off a wall: http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/dan-white/dan-white-its-time-to-bury-the-dart-underground-plan-permanently-31432860.html
    Millions spent on planning and consultations, proven business cases, economic benefits (€2-€2.5 out for every €1 in) confirmed by leading London economists...

    I can't understand this agenda.. :confused:


  • #2338
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    I love the bit about 'tunnel mining' being 'laborious' as if it was 1895 Paris and we were discussing Cité station.


  • #2339
    Langerland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 328 ✭✭Langerland


    How do all the great ideas end up back on the Dart line? An already over capacity stretch of two track rail that only extends to Bray? Surely a relatively low cost project would be to add 2 or more tracks to the dart central line at various intervals. Remove all the intercity, commuter and cargo trains from these lines. This would then allow for all the extra capacity that would be planned from the Dart Airport connections, etc. The same should be done on the lines approaching Heuston from Newbridge - especially to maximise the Pheonix Park tunnel.

    Maybe this is already planned :) I didn't check that!


  • #2340
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭Reuben1210


    hardy_buck wrote: »
    I'll never for the life of me understand why the newspapers have such an axe to grind against capital expenditure in this country. At the very thought of a big project in our capital they are almost tripping over themselves to resist it, howling at the cost or disruption during building..

    One such example that makes me want to bang my (and the authors much, much harder) head off a wall: http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/dan-white/dan-white-its-time-to-bury-the-dart-underground-plan-permanently-31432860.html
    Millions spent on planning and consultations, proven business cases, economic benefits (€2-€2.5 out for every €1 in) confirmed by leading London economists...

    I can't understand this agenda.. :confused:



    I think that unfortunately, the papers believe many of the people who buy them daily are very conservative and pro "ye old Dublin", and not progressive...and basically just moaners and nimbies :(


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  • #2341
    hardy_buck
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭hardy_buck


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I love the bit about 'tunnel mining' being 'laborious' as if it was 1895 Paris and we were discussing Cité station.

    The sad thing is that people are largely clueless about infrastructure and are likely to believe most of what is written here. Link it to the Celtic tiger years and declare it a white elephant and all of a sudden you have a nice hit piece on your hands.


  • #2342
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Langerland wrote: »
    How do all the great ideas end up back on the Dart line? An already over capacity stretch of two track rail that only extends to Bray? Surely a relatively low cost project would be to add 2 or more tracks to the dart central line at various intervals. Remove all the intercity, commuter and cargo trains from these lines. This would then allow for all the extra capacity that would be planned from the Dart Airport connections, etc. The same should be done on the lines approaching Heuston from Newbridge - especially to maximise the Pheonix Park tunnel.

    Maybe this is already planned :) I didn't check that!

    The plan is to run Bray -> Maynooth line

    and Kildare ->dart underground -> North Dublin

    Dublin city centre is to be resignalled to be able to run 20 trains per hour each way, or one train every 3 minutes.

    8 carriage trains with 200 people per carriage is a through put of 32k people per hour per direction, which should be grand for a while

    THis also avoids the conflict of where a train on the Maynooth line coming into tara street blocks a northbound and southbound track from being used by a northern line train at present.


  • #2343
    Dardania
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    McAlban wrote: »
    Good to hear. I always think it's a shame when a station is repurposed or left derelict. These Victorian Buildings should be preserved as much as possible I think. And When a Refurbishment is done right it can only add to the quality of the building.

    http://archiseek.com/2010/irish-rail-freight-offices-north-wall-quay-dublin/

    Totally agree. I attended some meetings in one of those buildings while Spencer Dock was being built (it was the site office for that development) - was a much nicer building than the rest of the development!


  • #2344
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    hardy_buck wrote: »
    I'll never for the life of me understand why the newspapers have such an axe to grind against capital expenditure in this country. At the very thought of a big project in our capital they are almost tripping over themselves to resist it, howling at the cost or disruption during building..

    One such example that makes me want to bang my (and the authors much, much harder) head off a wall: http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/dan-white/dan-white-its-time-to-bury-the-dart-underground-plan-permanently-31432860.html
    Millions spent on planning and consultations, proven business cases, economic benefits (€2-€2.5 out for every €1 in) confirmed by leading London economists...

    I can't understand this agenda.. :confused:

    I hope someone with far greater infrastructural knowledge than myself has written into the Herald to correct that nonsense.


  • #2345
    alias no.9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    hardy_buck wrote: »
    I'll never for the life of me understand why the newspapers have such an axe to grind against capital expenditure in this country. At the very thought of a big project in our capital they are almost tripping over themselves to resist it, howling at the cost or disruption during building..

    One such example that makes me want to bang my (and the authors much, much harder) head off a wall: http://www.herald.ie/opinion/columnists/dan-white/dan-white-its-time-to-bury-the-dart-underground-plan-permanently-31432860.html
    Millions spent on planning and consultations, proven business cases, economic benefits (€2-€2.5 out for every €1 in) confirmed by leading London economists...

    I can't understand this agenda.. :confused:

    I can only hope he's being deliberately obtuse to get DU back on the agenda. He misrepresents the purpose of DU so badly that it almost has to be deliberate. He couldn't possibly be as ignorant as he seems to be, could he?


  • #2346
    Schadenfreudia
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Schadenfreudia


    alias no.9 wrote: »
    I can only hope he's being deliberately obtuse to get DU back on the agenda. He misrepresents the purpose of DU so badly that it almost has to be deliberate. He couldn't possibly be as ignorant as he seems to be, could he?

    Of course he could!

    From Busaras to the DART; from the Luas to the M50...every transport infrastructure initiative in Dublin (and elsewhere) is seen by the media as an opportunity to create controversy and hence sell papers.

    From Garret Fitzgerald's senile ramblings about the Luas to this latest bull...all in a good cause...keeping mediocre hacks in jobs. :cool:


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  • #2347
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,210 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    Hard to believe that over 12 years later DU (nee the interconnector) is still a victim of shabby, poor and downright ignorant journalism.


  • #2348
    hardy_buck
    Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭hardy_buck


    Grandeeod wrote: »
    Hard to believe that over 12 years later DU (nee the interconnector) is still a victim of shabby, poor and downright ignorant journalism.

    And it will likely be another 12 years of this too, Howlin has claimed that they need to make €1.5Bn of adjustments shutting down the HSE request for €1.9Bn. http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0901/724892-budget/

    Consider then the rumours that the government will cut income tax or offer another break as an election sweetener and I would say you have odds on that this project will be scrapped, especially when you have clowns like those in the herald painting them as white elephants...

    It seems that if people can tolerate the absolute disaster that is the HSE, they can certainly tolerate traffic problems. :(


  • #2349
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,755 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The government does not need to spend €4bn in this budget in order to go ahead with DARTu. It'll be a PPP.


  • #2350
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The government does not need to spend €4bn in this budget in order to go ahead with DARTu. It'll be a PPP.
    Do they have a partner on board, or has it not yet gone to tender? If they do, should it probably go back to tender anyway though?


  • #2351
    Schadenfreudia
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Schadenfreudia


    Key thing is to go ahead with the CPOs.

    That shows commitment to eventually doing it when the cash is available; by whatever mechanism.

    Not going ahead with the CPO would be akin to building houses on the Harcourt St line reservation; it vastly increases the cost of the project - all planning would have to start from zero and it would be a hammer-blow to the chances of DU ever going ahead - regardless of what waffle might accompany an announcement.

    The most disheartening thing really is that we are collectively to blame; obviously not one single party or Independent seems to think there is any electoral gain in promising to go ahead with DU.

    With 22 days left to a possible catastrophic decision for PT in the GDA I hear M Martin waffling about the Garda Commissioner and SF have certainly never felt strongly enough about DU to actually mention it on air.

    Their focus groups must be telling them no one gives a sh1t :(


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