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Irish Rail Fine

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    #92
    savagethegoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,297 ✭✭✭savagethegoat


    my view is that you should pay the fine for your daughter as you gave her bad advice. Why on earth didn't you ask the RPU guys what to do?


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    #93
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    Yeah I mean really, I don't see the issue here.
    16 year old didn't buy a ticket, despite there being a working ticket machine
    Father instructs daughter to get on train
    Daughter gets on the train without ticket and gets fined
    Father outraged that he was undermined as a parent and talks about sueing Irish rail for breaching his constitutional right.

    Father claims his daughters dyslexia is a mild form and that it was because she also didn't have her glasses with her. Although apparently she could use her phone to call/text but not read the ticket machine?

    well, unless you can prove otherwise, his story is the case. he offered to pay the fare when she got to the destination. once someone makes an offer to pay the fare and shows the cash to prove that they will, that should be the end of it. as we don't know how big the writing is on her phone compared to the ticket machine there is nothing to say he isn't telling the truth here. he may not be but there is nothing to prove it.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #94
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    end of the road wrote: »
    well, unless you can prove otherwise, his story is the case. he offered to pay the fare when she got to the destination. once someone makes an offer to pay the fare and shows the cash to prove that they will, that should be the end of it. as we don't know how big the writing is on her phone compared to the ticket machine there is nothing to say he isn't telling the truth here. he may not be but there is nothing to prove it.

    Rubbish - that's not how you run a transport system.

    My wife picks me up from the station, I could walk on not buy a ticket and if she sees RPU at the station she could just walk up and say her dyslexic husband is on the inbound train and offer to pay for my ticket!

    How often would that happen? Not very - in fact it'd brilliant of you could do that I'd probably never have to buy a return ticket ;)

    It's a 15 minute drive to Balbriggan from Laytown - if she couldn't buy a ticket then she could've been picked up.


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    #95
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    As someone else already pointed out, if mild dyslexia was an excuse that worked and got the fine overturned after a court case then half the country would use it

    complete rubbish. you cannot simply walk into court and make such a claim, you have to prove it
    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Not having glasses to read the machine was the girls fault. As was turning up with insufficient time to purchase a ticket/ask someone for help with the machine considering her condition.

    maybe there wasn't anyone around to help her. maybe if these stations were actually staffed there wouldn't be an issue.
    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    The RPU guys have heard every excuse in the book so asking them to have a heart or use what you think is "common sense" is pointless because they deal with spoofers every day of the week as a matter of course in their work day.

    yeah, i'm sure. i'd bet few of them are actually excuses though.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #96
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    newacc2015 wrote: »
    I personally dont get the Dyslexia argument either. I have Dyslexia and generally I will mix up my understanding of words, like though and through. It would never hinder my ability to press Child/Adult and zones/place name required on the screen. I find the Dyslexia argument BS. I think if your daughter is able to function in a School at 16, what Judge is going to buy the story of " she has Dyslexia and cant use a ticket machine". I going to hazard a guess, that the child has laptop and phone, that she uses without support either?

    I think when do dumb **** like not pay for a ticket and get fined. Its easier to blame someone, than to take responsibility.
    well, i'm sure this father knows his daughter. so until someone else who knows her can prove its BS, then it isn't. there is nothing to take responsibility for. the fare from wherever she got on to wherever she got off should be payed at destination and that should be the end of it. the penalty fare nonsense is a racket and completely fails to deal with the act of fare evasion.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #97
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Rubbish - that's not how you run a transport system.

    no, not rubbish at all. much easier to have a little cash cow racket then actually get to grips with the problem
    Jawgap wrote: »
    My wife picks me up from the station, I could walk on not buy a ticket and if she sees RPU at the station she could just walk up and say her dyslexic husband is on the inbound train and offer to pay for my ticket!
    How often would that happen? Not very - in fact it'd brilliant of you could do that I'd probably never have to buy a return ticket

    she would have to pay it straight away to the RPU lads.
    Jawgap wrote: »
    It's a 15 minute drive to Balbriggan from Laytown - if she couldn't buy a ticket then she could've been picked up.

    maybe he couldn't drive there for some reason.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #98
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    I have a taxsaver ticket for the train that's prepaid. On Tuesday I left it in work and I still had to buy a ticket that evening to get home and the following morning to get work. Why? Because I couldn't get on the train without a ticket.


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    #99
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I have a taxsaver ticket for the train that's prepaid. On Tuesday I left it in work and I still had to buy a ticket that evening to get home and the following morning to get work. Why? Because I couldn't get on the train without a ticket.
    irrelevant to the situation being discussed

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #100
    Ilovelucy
    Registered Users Posts: 705 ✭✭✭Ilovelucy


    OisinDunne wrote: »
    Nope. They were at the station all day. I knew they were there before she even got on the train in Balbriggan. I was even talking to them when she rang me all worried about not being able to work the machine.

    If you knew they were there and talking to them would it not have been sensible to ask if what you intended to do was ok with them.


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    #101
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    end of the road wrote: »
    no, not rubbish at all. much easier to have a little cash cow racket then actually get to grips with the problem



    she would have to pay it straight away to the RPU lads.



    maybe he couldn't drive there for some reason.

    How is it a cash cow? How much to the RPU raise and how much do they cost - I assume you have these figures if you say it's a cash cow.

    And of course my wife would have to pay the RPU lads - but how often would they be at any given station outside the commuter zone.

    I'm an occasional user of Laytown and I've never encountered RPU at the station in 9 years of using so I'd happily board a train with no ticket if I knew wifey could pay the RPU guys before I arrived and texted me to remind me to be dyslexic.


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    #102
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    end of the road wrote: »
    irrelevant to the situation being discussed

    Actually, it's even more relevant.

    The poster had already paid for the journey, forgot the proof of it and still had to pay for another ticket.

    How'd it have played out if he ran into RPU and said he'd forgotten his annual pass and offered to bring to them the next day?


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    #103
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    Jawgap wrote: »
    Actually, it's even more relevant.

    The poster had already paid for the journey, forgot the proof of it and still had to pay for another ticket.

    How'd it have played out if he ran into RPU and said he'd forgotten his annual pass and offered to bring to them the next day?

    Another one they would have heard 5 or 6 times already that day :)


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    #104
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Another one they would have heard 5 or 6 times already that day :)
    yet they wouldn't be able to prove it wasn't the truth i'd bet

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #105
    mickydoomsux
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭mickydoomsux


    end of the road wrote: »
    yet they wouldn't be able to prove it wasn't the truth i'd bet

    Maybe.

    Going by you logic they should just believe every excuse thrown at them.


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    #106
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    mickydoomsux wrote: »
    Maybe.

    Going by you logic they should just believe every excuse thrown at them.
    or just have it automatically go to court and let a judge decide instead of the pf nonsense which doesn't seem to deterr fare evasion

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #107
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    end of the road wrote: »
    irrelevant to the situation being discussed


    It's not really, it's pretty much the same thing. Although I've paid for my ticket and have emails proving that, they don't care and expect you to be in possession of a valid ticket.

    When you don't have a valid ticket, irregardless of excuse, you have no business being on a train.

    Does the same work for luas? Same machine idea? Can I go on the luas if I forget my glasses?


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    #108
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    end of the road wrote: »
    or just have it automatically go to court and let a judge decide instead of the pf nonsense which doesn't seem to deterr fare evasion

    Yes, because the courts have nothing better to do :rolleyes:


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    #109
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    It's not really, it's pretty much the same thing. Although I've paid for my ticket and have emails proving that, they don't care and expect you to be in possession of a valid ticket.

    When you don't have a valid ticket, irregardless of excuse, you have no business being on a train.

    Does the same work for luas? Same machine idea? Can I go on the luas if I forget my glasses?

    As you say 'possession' not payment is the key requirement - if payment was the key requirement they'd never be able it issue freebies!


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    #110
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    It's not really, it's pretty much the same thing. Although I've paid for my ticket and have emails proving that, they don't care and expect you to be in possession of a valid ticket.

    it is really, its not the same
    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    When you don't have a valid ticket, irregardless of excuse, you have no business being on a train.

    the bi-law says otherwise in certain situations. so, in certain situations, you have a business being on the train.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #111
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,276 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    end of the road wrote: »
    yet they wouldn't be able to prove it wasn't the truth i'd bet


    it is not up to the RPU guys to prove you are lying. you either have a ticket in your possession or you dont.


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    #112
    Miaireland
    Registered Users Posts: 4,063 ✭✭✭Miaireland


    Op if I were you I would just pay the fine purely because of the upset and stress this is causing your daughter. You cannot get the case transfered into your name and I can't see how the arguement that Irish Rail is undermining you as a parent is going to hold water in your situation.

    At the end of the day is going to court really worth your daughter being stressed and upset.


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    #113
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    it is not up to the RPU guys to prove you are lying. you either have a ticket in your possession or you dont.
    they cannot say someone is making an excuse without proof

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #114
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    end of the road wrote: »
    it is really, its not the same



    the bi-law says otherwise in certain situations. so, in certain situations, you have a business being on the train.


    http://tinypic.com/r/28lxa1l/8 There you go, straight from the horses mouth, as it were. I don't know how you can attempt to argue that. How do people get through life thinking laws and rules don't apply to them?


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    #115
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,998 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    http://tinypic.com/r/28lxa1l/8 There you go, straight from the horses mouth, as it were. I don't know how you can attempt to argue that. How do people get through life thinking laws and rules don't apply to them?

    my post still stands. in general, there are some rules which are worth breaking, but they aren't for this thread

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #116
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    A little plastic plaque isn't the actual byelaws


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    #117
    sbkenn
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭sbkenn


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Don't you think we would be hearing about in the papers it if the courts started rejecting and throwing out cases on those grounds?

    Irish Rail clearly are viewing the two as one and the same and if they are prosecuting people then I find it somewhat difficult to believe that this your view has been taken by the courts.

    The courts ARE a bit more sympathetic towards disabilities, and esp if you had tried to pay before your daughter got "caught". The machines can be unfriendly, esp if you have difficulty reading and are in a hurry. They should have a 2-stop button, and a 5 stop button. I have difficulty reading those screens, even though I do use a computer a lot.


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    #118
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,276 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    end of the road wrote: »
    they cannot say someone is making an excuse without proof


    you really dont understand how court works do you?


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    #119
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    end of the road wrote: »
    I DO YES. HOWEVER WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT COURT ARE WE. IN COURT YOU HAVE TO BRING PROOF FOR EVERYTHING YOU STATE AGAINST SOMEONE ELSE

    Not true.

    There's a thing called judicial notice and you can't 'prove' a negative such as the lack of possession of a ticket.

    You have to have a ticket to travel.


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    #120
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    L1011 wrote: »
    A little plastic plaque isn't the actual byelaws


    Jesus lol
    What part of that is open to interpretation??


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    #121
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    @EotR deleting posts :confused:


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