Cork GAA Discussion Thread

keano25 wrote: »

I'm starting to wonder should you change your name to nonsense.

How many current Kilkenny or Kerry players play both codes at club level?

It will never happen in Cork and rightly so. It's a dual county. Players won't let their clubs down like that.

Galvin was a good hurler with Lixnaw. A good few of the Dublin footballers play club hurling and they seem to get on okay. If you look at Cork footballers this year it's arguable that our best performers were lads who play a fair bit of hurling for their clubs (I.e. Collins and Cadogan who hurl for Douglas, and Colm O'Neill who's a serious hurler, albeit his club is junior level).

When Cork are in championship these lads will only play championship for their clubs and this will only be played when there's a good break so as to accommodate the county lads. They might play the opposite code 2 or 3 times in this period. They don't play league. I really don't think it has any sort of significant effect.

keano25 wrote: »

I'm starting to wonder should you change your name to nonsense.

How many current Kilkenny or Kerry players play both codes at club level?

I repeat, you obviously have no feel or understanding of our Association or the games.

Be a good lad and run along now.

Deise_2012 wrote: »

You don't have a clue

Thanks but sure you mustn,t have a clue either.
I know we aint going nowhere while he is there.

Deise_2012 wrote: »

You don't have a clue

Oh he has a clue alright.Hammered by Tipp in Croke Park last August.Beaten by a good but not great Waterford team in league and championship and last Sundays shambles.This talk of JBM the miracle worker with these poor players is a load of patronsing bullsh!t.This Cork team has got enough good hurlers to be competitive.Players like Harnedy Lehane and Horgan are as good as any in the country.JBM has done a good job but he's not immune from criticism imo.Tactically he is a very poor manager and they are too many county board yes men on his management team for my liking.Last Sunday was a tactical failure and physically we weren't able to compete.All in all JBM is the best out of the options acceptable to Frank but no more than that.As for Brian Cuthbert to be fair he was robbed of a historic win in Kilarney and he couldn't pick the players up after it.But that defeat to Kildare spoke a thousand words really.A united squad with everyone on the same page would not have caved in like that.The hurlers and footballers are there in Cork it's the tactics preparation and physical side of things that's letting us down.

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Cork man ross Corbett with limerick under twenty one hurling tonight as trainer

Where is he from ? the Limerick captain was full of praise for him in his speech ..said they would not have won only for him ...Kiely manager also thanked him bigtime ...sounds like hes very good.

Straight Talker wrote: »

Oh he has a clue alright.Hammered by Tipp in Croke Park last August.Beaten by a good but not great Waterford team in league and championship and last Sundays shambles.This talk of JBM the miracle worker with these poor players is a load of patronsing bullsh!t.This Cork team has got enough good hurlers to be competitive.Players like Harnedy Lehane and Horgan are as good as any in the country.JBM has done a good job but he's not immune from criticism imo.Tactically he is a very poor manager and they are too many county board yes men on his management team for my liking.Last Sunday was a tactical failure and physically we weren't able to compete.All in all JBM is the best out of the options acceptable to Frank but no more than that.As for Brian Cuthbert to be fair he was robbed of a historic win in Kilarney and he couldn't pick the players up after it.But that defeat to Kildare spoke a thousand words really.A united squad with everyone on the same page would not have caved in like that.The hurlers and footballers are there in Cork it's the tactics preparation and physical side of things that's letting us down.

Sunday was a tactical failure? What other tactics should he have employed?

I'll happily agree JBM isn't a great tactical manager but we were completely overrun by Galway the last day. Tactics had nothing to do with Glynn cleaning out Walsh, then Murphy and finally Ellis. Tactics had nothing to do with the fact our back line couldn't cope with the Galway forwards, even with having an extra defender.

We don't have the players. It's as simple as that. Harnedy is top class. After that how many of our players get close to starting with Kilkenny, Tipp or even Galway and Waterford?

Lehane is top class on his day but is way too inconsistent. I'm one of Hoggy's biggest defenders on here but he blows very hot and cold and can be marked out of it if in the corner. I think Cooper has shown himself to be an excellent player this year to be fair. I still don't think any of those are certainties to get into the other opposition's teams though. Joyce would probably get in most teams and he was a huge loss this year.

JBM has weaknesses tactically and he has been criticised for that here especially after the two Warerford games. In fairness, he rectified that somewhat afterwards with the sweeper system. Being honest and this isn't nice to have to say, it wouldn't have mattered what tactics we employed last Sunday, Galway were just a lot better team than us.

If he wants another year I think he deserves it. Getting to an AI and winning a Munster with these lads gives him enough rope to excuse this year IMO.

dcrosskid wrote: »

Looking in from the outside, I think's Cork's problem is lack of quality in the backline.

Shane O Neill is really only a shadow of his former self, I really don't know what he was doing when he left Whelan off for the last goal last weekend & made an appalling effort to get back.

Brian Murphy was a very decent back in his day & in fairness he did okay but really Cork need to be looking to the future & not at who they can coax out of retirement.

Stephan McDonald is a decent corner back. He can do a job if he has any protection in front of him.

To be fair Joyce would have been an improvement in the full back line but I cant understand the lack of game time Conor O Sullivan got earlier in the year. I would rate him as Cork's best inside back and was completely under utilized.

The half back line is another issue, Walsh is very capable of pulling off stunning catch's, massive sidelines and can score from distance but when it comes down to the simple things his hurling is lacking. I would maybe play him midfield but would be more inclined to chance him in the half forward line in the league at least.

I have good time for Ellis but he seemed to be struggling with injury a bit this year. The other wing backs name escapes me but he is average enough at this level, he was badly exposed for a goal against Waterford. Is William Egan unavailable or where is he these days? At the very least he was solid and a good defender, nothing to flashy and a big man.

If I was JBM I would be looking to freshen things up a bit next year if possible, throw in the young goalkeeper who I have heard a lot about and bring in O Sullivan & Egan. Is there any other promising young backs on the u21's or minor's that could be looked at? Yer minor's were supposed to be promising this year so maybe a couple of good young lads can be brought in? Kearney midfield is a good hurler, if some one could step up with him ye should be okay here. It's a pity Sweetnam (not sure of spelling) is gone playing rugby, he looked very promising & had speed to burn.

If Walsh could add something at half forward along with Harnedy & maybe Cooper that would be a very competitive line that would tackle as well as compete & score. Lehane, Cadogan & Horgan are all very similar types of players. A different type of forward willing to put in a good shift needs to be tried with 2 of them.

Without doubt there are a lot more knowledgeable posters here that can comment on Cork hurling but that's how i'd rate yer team from what I can see.

Yeah that's a fair assessment.

O'Neill was a superb corner back for us for years. He seems to have lost a step of pace and some of the bite you used to associate with him.

Conor O'Sullivan hasn't been hurling great for Sars apparently but I've always rated him, especially as a sweeper.

Egan went travelling and didn't want to come back into the panel this year. Have to respect that decision. No idea what his intentions are going into the future. I think Cormac Murphy will keep developing so he should hopefully one of the wing back spots should be bailed down for a while.

Pa Collins in goal is a terrific keeper. I'd have no problems with him playing next year.

In terms of young prospects and throwing names around who've impressed me there'd be Conor Twomey from Newtown, Niall Cashman from Blackrock who may be looked at in the backline. I don't know enough about this year's minors to assess a lot of the backs.

What highlights our struggles at the moment to me is that if you were to pick a combined 15 between us and say Waterford (described as a good but not great team above, which I'd largely agree with, although they've the potential to be great), I can see only Joyce at FB, Harnedy and Lehane in the forwards and an argument to be made for Hoggy up front and either Cooper or Kearney in midfield (although that's optimistic) making it from a Cork perspective. When you add the struggles at underage recently that's a big worry.

I flagged Corbett year ago as soon as he got the job and indeed limerick thread knows I huge fan limerick under twenty one set up and while I said may be bit young this year I had real belive and faith in the management as Corbett is a magnificent coach trainer, innovative, a scientific coach, attention detail, awesome communication, and drills top top class
He's been all over ulster promotional camoige, key man promotion the game, where he fought tooth and nail get it promoted and was kerry minor football few years ago and was highly rated
You see any time I critsed management various teams or laud others people think I'm agenda driven
As proven again and again I'm not
But you look at the records speak for themselves
You always knew Corbett make difference with limerick as he's record showed logic to say there's reason to believe not just false hope
Kiely limerick team praised him after wards
No surprise
Also I can open a thread here cork coaches trainers etc made huge improvement success gaa teams outside cork etc and other sports
Point is Cork have coaching talent within cork but simply not given the opportunity within so they go elsewhere
There is no need absoultey no need for cork have outside football management of hurling manager
Coaches yes not main men
And thankfully cork gaa won't allow outside manager as good thing about pairc in one sense simply won't allow it and if it did it would be a disgrace to pour money in to management expenses when like Derek kavanagh said many others more money has invested cork under age
It would be a master class in irony and case of solving problems without solving the root cause of cork paid outside managers yes didn't put money under age
Outside manager will only have short management cycle at best
He'll come and go
Put money in to underage development cork coaches you build model sustained success
Man United have van gal and temporary but gigs groomed long term
United have a short term fix with a long term solution in mind
To fix today is all well and good but you must correlation that to the future
It's called direction
All companies and top sporting teams have it
A direction so the road of success will join up and meet them on their journey
With out direction in truth you arrive at a cross roads where ultimately cork gaa is now at
We need to choose the right road and not go down cul de sacs so to speak



Corbett with limerick I always knew going to work and kiely while some doubts regards him bottom line while he's not greatest ever management fact is he surrounds himself right people helps him and he's team and john clearly football is the same
Fitzmaurice kerry isn't great great what makes him great is he surrounds himself great people
Horan mayo was never great on he's own became Great surrounding himself with Buckley and ed coughlan

Look at cork football could been successful if surrounded themselves great coaches they didn't
You see cuthbhertt could been good if good back room team but he's enthusiasm was brilliant but you always felt he was trying do too much when be fair never proven some areas

Cork gaa owes him the way he was thrown in at the deep end to give him administration role as said day one that's be strength
Also one point of all the after math after Sunday bob Ryan escaped no accountability when he's record as chairman played huge part cork football failure by ist of all having the casting vote to give him the job over Cleary but also by accusing cork paper having agenda against cork football when echoed haven delegate Michael maguire concerns ccb meeting on what procedure was appointed cork managment over Cleary and didn't engage decormatic debate over issue

To hear some gaa people say you can change things in cork over decormatic debate is some laugh in fairness when you look at the history cork gaa and Denis Walsh podcast last October on today fm politics cork gaa
Nothing has changed it seems yet
But minor football hurling and senior football appointment will tell us if it has

For all the talk regards hurling it's pointless imo until we have coach fully committed to the sweeper possession game
Cork changed system three weeks ago and like my fear was too late
Also this team lost too many game that while good players there the record loosing means you need something new to rebuild as same panel goes out next year no county will fear them

Nash Collins, Joyce Ellis, cahalane, coughlan Lawton, cadogan Harnedy cooper, Kearney, Murphy, Lehane horgan should be retained
Mcdommell also
Cronin as panel players
Walsh need be coached properly
O shea should be retained and paudie sullivan

Moylan McCarthy, farell, I'd let go
Brian Murphy great servant brilliant this year but Cork need building team three years and he won't be around then so I'd let go
Credit cork hurling

Shane o Neill great player confidence ruined playing as full back
Next league cork need add dennehy, Burke, John Cronin, Kevin o Neill, Anthony Spillane, Luke meade, dwayne Lee, Eddie gunning, Eoghan kinery playing super hurling with Killeagh and is ball winner that with proper coaching has way more in him
Shane o keoffe, niall cashman, Conor toomey, David doolin, Shane Kingston all needed to be panel next year waterford crystal and league and given consistent run of games
Pa Callaghan it's up to himself but good management hopefully he'd come on board but jbm be fair done all he could to get him there and can't be blamed for that
Tony Murphy Carrigaline players that's big man, has pace and playing well for cork intermediate and course club and should get looked at


Cork need new management if jbm goes
No real option out there
Wallis be good be involved
Kingston probably be front runner if he was available
And he'd be okay but you had him and mulchay as selector with Wallis wouldn't be bad at all

I agree kerry poster who again gave good insight in to cork football
Id argue though cork have defenders like galvin clancy dorman sean white, loughrey and Cronin etc who need coaching and system and when you see kerry less options doing good last year options are in cork
Midfield yes to be fair maguire was a huge loss but we'll before that all last year cork never solved midfield at all and dinneen leary kiely deane if they had proper coaching I don't doubt would improve like kerry and Donegal lads have
Kissane gave brilliant article coaching today in the paper
Cork as you can see by the system, good players not developing further coaching wasn't great the last two years
Are these lads good enough to win an all ireland
Time will tell but I don't doubt there good enough to beat Kildare and be top four team and push kerry to the limit

People have view cork won't win all ireland til every twenty years and I genuinely see why they feel that and you can't blame them but at the same time accepting it and just saying this is our legacy won't change it
Cork ladies football, leinster rugby, clare under age and senior hurling, Donegal, monaghan football, all had no success legacy in no given right to win but though hard work, good coaching and above all the most important change of all a change of attuide things changed
They don't use the excuse cork football has in we have no given right to expect more
Cork go down to killareny every time and the attuide when we loose is we never win there sure it is what it's is
There's difference in going there and saying we won't win cause we haven't picked the best team to we actually can't win
Xmas comes twenty fifth day December every year
We can't change that it is what it is
To say cork have to accept that we can't win in killarney or one all ireland every twenty years is not it is what it is in its more it is what we ALLOW IT TO BE
Some may say this Roy keane attuide is not in line with reality
Fair enough in reality is Cork will never ever ever ever be up their with kerry in the roll of honour
That unfortunately is what it is


But surely realism would be we can expect a well coached cork team in the next few years to go and beat kerry in kerry and be a top four team
You look at monaghan and Donegal
Mcguimness and o rourke said easiest part was getting defensive structure in place
Cork have no excuse not to do same
Unlike monaghan and fermanagh cork have footballers who can score goulding doc, colm Brian dan maceoin etc
Cork have forwards
That's my view cork with structure and organisations can be doing like those counties have done

Irish rugby changes from moral victory to one point world cup defeat to Australia years ago, one off denying England grand slams to Keith woods demanding defeats that not good enough ireland loosing and look ten years later we go to world cup wanting to win it
If we don't it's simply were not good enough and that's fair enough but at least there the best they can be, have best coach they could have and will be up there with the top teams in the world competitive
You can't ask for any more
Ireland rubgy will always struggle with playing number against the southern hemisphere power houses and the English and the French playing number wise but at least now ireland give consistent performance
Brian o Driscoll dismissed ireland loss all-black as moral victory
Now ireland may well struggle to get a ist win but you can't fault the attuide in ireland least now demand and expect to win

Cork football has want more, demand more and no one expects winning all ireland every three years but surely cork football demands right to expect win one least every five or six years and when not least have minimum standard still being top four
Cork accepted one all ireland every twenty years is out legacy it will never change
Cork football ladies the day elaine harte handed in a letter asking for their good friend to step down as manager when they barely won a game and it hurt them to say their close friend has to go as manager changed the legacy cork ladies football from minnows to the greatest ever by simply a change of attuide, we want more and lets be the best we can be and see where it takes us
Cork senior football needs that attuide let's be the best we can be and see where it takes us
It truly deserves more


Tony considine said attuide cork hurling is wrong
He's right but that changed in the last ten years in famine at senior began
Football attuide always unfortunately had the poor mouth attuide
Quirke article was having a dig at McCarthy article and kerry lads cork media normally do and lot I don't agree with but at the same time we can't be naive or let emotions dislike kerry to dismiss it, we should say hold on a minute he actually raised valid points here
Cork football too often clings to expect excuses as if like limerick hurling we never get the breaks


Simple fact is you change what you can
For all the appalling poor referee decision let's not kid ourselves we still had seventieth minutes from the penalty to regroup and come again
It wasn't like Cork under twenty one v roscommon in last minute appalling Nolan referee decision gave roscommon last score game cork no time to come back
Cork had time and a full seventy minutes to regroup in the replay as kerry are not
Anywhere like unbeatable great kerry teams of the past


Cork under Cleary and o Driscoll had appalling referee performance by both tipperary's referee Derek o brien and o mahony in twice games gave everything to kerry but Cork still won
Cork had a system in play and total believe whatever way the difference dice rolled they were going to win
Simple fact is and I get no joy in saying it but brolly o se were right lot issues game plan, leadership etc in cork So getting caught up penalty is not right
Penalty or no penalty simple fact was cork made no change to the game plan for the replay And no change to the team bar the enforced one and subs made too slow and like kerry poster said lads played out position
For all blame to Hughes the referee he had nothing to do with this



All doom and gloom that cork football is finished imo is not true
I defended talent in cork month after month here and I critsed performance on field management as I simply knew usual old stuff once cork lost players lack talent etc be blamed
Imo it's nonsense absoultey nonsense
A good management a system of play a good structure cork football will be top four
Football is actually in better position than the hurling as the availability talent senior all ireland winners to youth is there
Look at monaghan they had nothing like Cork
Good management and it's start new era cork football


Minor has wonderful talent and it needs new coach like kissane and kavanagh or James McCarthy
Hurling under twenty one is in good management but minor must be good and jbm outstanding management to degree where took cork with no talent coming up but still tactical wise off the modern game but he's imo outgrew this team now
Every management out grow team unless you win you can keep it going once you keep evolving

danganabu wrote: »

Would agree with all of that and in particular re Nash ( Incredibly weak when the ball is hit across him) however I wouldn't dismiss Cooper as readily as that, he has potential IMO.

I'd agree cooper is bonner maher cork however not as great as maher but work horse, abrasive committed hunger want and desire to compete
Often forgotten he was late development to hurling in played rubgy and then after Walsh time got awful back injury and then jbm left it while before recalled


Cork with Nash fine
Nash superb keeper and should be there but captain should be Harnedy and not him

As regards cork football flangan should be retained if new management want him as he's outstanding this year and no-fault any way cork lost this year
Fitness wasn't problem
However if he goes cork should looking within their own
Ross Corbett stands out with micheál deasy Samoa rubgy or esst cork trainers Richard can't think second name now under Cleary many years as trainer

Corbett is with munster camoige and ul Fitzgibbon cup winning team this year as s and c and also last night limerick munster winners


He football kerry minor football all semi final monaghan won ulster men two years ago minor and all ireland semi final


He was down minor hurling won ulster huge achievement them


Coaching is in cork in cork men should be offered jobs first
Corbett you imagine jump senior chance
One thing about o Neill kerry he was diverse well travelling with tipp hurling mayo football and then newtownshandrum hurling


Corbett huge huge experience young man and worked tip environment but crucial worked non elite counties also where faces many challenges he won't face top counties but that stand him test time as he's battle hardened coaching in every sense


Imagine clearly English coach flangan or Corbett trainers

O brien Ballincollig or ricken part cork set up maybes kissane selector but also minor coach

Now that would be unbelievable and have no doubt no doubt what so ever cork be better last two years


Most amazing thing is some cork so called experts ex pundits haven't even mentioned Corbett achievements before
If there looking for a story he's fella after limerick win last night should be mentioned in article

Top trainers and kerry had him proved it
Has he's own business too I think
Top trainer

Figsy32 wrote: »

Cooper was immense against Clare.

He was also very good in last years Munster Final. I think his best position is midfield. He has a great engine & I feel he is the fall guy when things aren't going well in the forward line. Scoring is not his forte but he'll run at defences all day & has good vision at bringing others into play. He would also ease the workload on Kearney. He should be given that role in the league to let him get used to it.

http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-walsh-a-returning-icon-ready-to-restore-glory-days-31417025.html
Whatever happens with the Donegal game Galway have made progress year one
This article imo is significant to cork in i don't belive all the doom and gloom with Cork football if Cleary get the job with the right team around him could have a good future ahead
Fitzmaurice Horan mcguimness all made huge progress year one
Gavin also
Mcgenney was mentioned here but imo I don't or never have rated he's management

O rourke fermanagh made huge progress

All these management had one common denominator in they all had either at club or inter county some form proven success


Cleary has to be offered the cork job as he's record with haven and Cork under twenty one beating kerry brings that belief
Yes he's concerns tactically fair enough but he's man management and strong character and really grass roots football man in working cork ladies under age and minors shows he often works teams outside limelight shows he appreciate football at every level

Also he's interview in southern star shows he's interested cork football purely nothing else in said issues over last interview cork senior job but kept quiet
He felt no point saying things creating drama
He could spoke out but he choose not to and he deserves management last time
Yes concerns remain but he's more qualified last management at club and county with success beating kerry and would bring in tip top team around him
He brought in video assessment cork under twenty ones
He knows cork football huge job


I think he knows he can't change cork he's own but if he gets it and I think he will this time he won't have inexperienced back room team
You at worst see one selector limited experience but most he's team will have experience
Read between the lines he's interview
Cork football he stress big job
He's not naive to have inexperienced around him
A lot talk going around so it's hard to know what to believe
And it's early yet
If and I stress if again if what I hear is true and he is offered and takes job back room team likely bring in looks very good
That's the key
Back room team
Mcguimness o rourke fitzmaurice cody all helped by good back room team
There knowledge enough to bring in the best people
That will be the success or failure of Cleary if he gets the job
I don't doubt he will have a good team with him

He took over Cork under twenty one football with Tony Leahy after loosing waterford year before under Davis

It's not unknown territory for him to come in and rebuild a team
Cork football some said last year cork would win things and imo it was never clear cut
Some now say who ever comes in has almost impossible job
I don't agree
Yes it's tough and lot work ahead absoultey but good system and belief things can change


Look at the general scene the next few years
Dublin kerry stand out yes
Tyrone are there but maybes harte will go as great as he is maybe time new man
Monaghan have great coach system but lot mileage and old team and won't be around for ages

Mayo have young players coming up but doubts imo remain over the management and lot team could change if don't win this year and I don't think they will

Galway yes next year will be stronger
Donegal have good coaching system but lot mileage and ulster take lot out them
If get tough ulster draw won't help them
Cork have just kerry in cork at munster and once prepared well have game plan imo golden chance be all ireland semi final year one


Yes be realistic all ireland out but let's not sell ourselves too short either
Year one stay up league solve midfield and have solid defence system with effective style play
Yes it will have turbulent days but once improvement made from game to game you tend to belive in system
It's when same mistakes repeated you get concerned


Year two all ireland final should be agenda


Two year term but has been minimum standard set in have keep division one status and have been least all ireland quater final with beating kerry in cork set attainable goal simply has been number one priority next year beat kerry as fitzmaurice kerry getting dominated cork and superior complex cork have to end that soon as


Beat kerry get all ireland semi final is progress

Cork football has all ireland winners senior under twenty one young lads now in peak years and lot lads ucc won Sigerson cork football isn't actually in bad place that talent isn't there
If Cleary get the job I believe top four realistic perfectly attainable goal and Cleary won't be going in just year one going though motion imo he is in there he will focus hugely kerry from day one

As for kerry football we could learn from them
Fitzmaurice saying kerry could loose Kildare
Yerra nonsense
Kavanagh said it he didn't think Kildare go too far
Kerry play up Kildare
In truth with greatest respect Kildare kerry will beat them and won't hit full peak
Fermanagh could with outstanding McGrath coach prove test Dublin but lack few forwards will tell and Dublin should come though handy enough
You can't blame McGrath though as he's already over achieved with fermanagh

http://www.punditarena.com/gaa/khealy/analysing-the-four-candidates-who-can-rebuild-cork-football/
Evans is solid manager and yes be fair good tippeary under twenty one and laune Rangers but no way is he best fit for cork absoultey not no way with greatest respect to him
Intercounty senior record is hardly great and yes league he's good manager but we had two years good League in group stages that's not what cork need championship is the test

Time with meath as selector and indeed roscommon hardly great
The simple question is also to be asked would kerry have him manager any team
They haven't and likely won
That in itself tells you cork shouldn't
It's waste time mentioned outside men it won't happen in cork

Some one will probably mention Jason ryan or mcgenney
Some one now looking for a new name to add to this list
At times you swear this was a raffle in pull out any old names and we may get lucky
Morgan is credit name their but he's had he's time he should be having role cork football over see things structure etc but he's had he's time and Cork needs fresh voice

Cork football was served well by Morgan over all but it's time new man
Morgan any role he get minor be one

No way shouldwe go to an outside manager ....John Evans no way Michael Quirke said when he had him at club level he was very old school ...look what he did in Roscommon this year disaster.