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The arrest and death of Sandra Bland.

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Comments

  • #152
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I beg to differ. And I have no agenda, I'm just passing comment. I have no skin in this game.

    My belief is that this is a case where neither party helped themselves. They both escalated it. He had an attitude and so did she.

    It's kind of like the Zimmerman incident. If Trayyvon Martin had kept running away, he would still be alive today.

    If Sandra Bland had complied with the police officer's request, she would still be alive today.

    Cops will always meet people with bad attitudes. Most cops will base their decision to prosecute a traffic offence on the attitude of the driver. But you cannot arrest someone simply for a being an asshole and I cannot see how this arrest could be deemed legal unless there is some law in that State which allows for a cop to direct someone to put out a cigarette.

    As to her death, very few people accept that their friends or relatives have taken their own lives and even less can predict it. There's nothing substantial to suggest she didn't take her own life.


  • #153
    dickwod1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭dickwod1


    RedemptionZ wrote: »
    I'm confused about the big deal here, she killed herself in jail which is obviously a very sad story and shouldn't have been allowed to happen but nobody seems to care about that.

    Where does she was arrested, maybe wrongly, actually result in her dying? I doubt they made her kill herself. Or are people implying they killed her?

    The woman was in jail for 3 days, She had just got her phone call to post bail and was then found dead hanging by a plastic bag in her cell less than 1 hour after the phone call to get out, Thats why this is so suspicious.

    You have to bear in mind the reason this started was not using an indicator while changing lanes, She had just got a new job and was not a murderer/criminal/sex offender etc. who might have thought it better to commit suicide than face the consequences.


  • #154
    LostinKildare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 994 ✭✭✭LostinKildare


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Again, I dont see what the big issue is with being asked to put out the cigarette.
    ...
    From the transcript above it seems a perfectly reasonable request given properly. Surely the guy should be able to work without havign smoke in his face?

    No, not reasonable, and not properly given, because he had no business with her at that point, no lawful reason to be detaining her and making that or any other request. In post 106 above I explain that per a recent US Supreme Court ruling, a police officer cannot keep a person for a traffic violation after serving them the ticket unless (1) he suspects you've committed another crime or (2) there are "safety concerns."

    He shouldn't have been bothering her at all after serving the ticket. It's pretty clear he had some problem with her, whether it was because she was black, because she was a woman, because she had a Northern license plate on her car (which yes is a thing in the South, and especially notorious in Texas), or because when he asked her if she was ok -- what did he ask for, if he couldn't handle an honest answer? -- she expressed her irritation rather than cowering under his alpha-male puffed-up authority. Who knows? Maybe he was just having a crap day and blew a fuse.

    In any case, you gave her the ticket, let her go -- that's the law. If he got smoke in his eyes, well why didn't he just leave, as he was required to do? He had done his job, he was illegally detaining her at that point (per the SC) to try to force her into submitting to his will, somehow, over a very very small thing. And even that was outside his authority.


  • #155
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Hagar7 wrote: »
    Watched the full 52 minutes version on YT.
    Also viewed the mayor and various other clips.

    Did the cop read her Miranda rights at any stage of his so-called arrest?


  • #156
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    I'll pop into these threads to point out, once again, that very few people here live in the U.S.


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  • #157
    dickwod1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,101 ✭✭✭dickwod1


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    I'll pop into these threads to point out, once again, that very few people here live in the U.S.

    Thanks for the info


  • #158
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    LostinKildare wrote: »
    ...or because when he asked her if she was ok -- what did he ask for, if he couldn't handle an honest answer? -- she expressed her irritation rather than cowering under his alpha-male puffed-up authority. Who knows? Maybe he was just having a crap day and blew a fuse...
    And not only that, but she did so in a pretty formal/professional manner. It's not like she screamed at him or used expletives or anything; she just firmly stated that she was not OK without being disrespectful to the officer.


  • #159
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Why are you going on about black people? I dont see anywhere in my post that mentions doing anything differently if you're black. Would you do things differently based on the race of the cop you're talking to? Did he ask her to put out thecigarette specifically because she black?

    I'd consider it common courtesy for people not to blow smoke in my face regardless of either of our race or job. Any time I've been stopped the first thing I do is lower the radio all the way and drop the window right down. I'm probably not legally required to but its common courtesy.

    It was hardly an unreasonable request and he said "(would) you mind" and "please". What more do people want? (we're taking that part of the exchange in isolation btw before someone starts going off in another direction)

    She was not blowing smoke in his face.

    I think it's wonderful the effort you are putting in toward the defence of a man we know was fired for prior racism and who unnecessarily and illegally placed a Black woman in a situation that resulted in her tragic loss of life.

    All that cop had to do was just not be a racist and authoritarian dick. You keep defending him though, good job.


  • #160
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,002 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    I'll pop into these threads to point out, once again, that very few people here live in the U.S.

    My life is now complete ... now you can just pop back out.


  • #161
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,002 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    I beg to differ. And I have no agenda, I'm just passing comment. I have no skin in this game.

    My belief is that this is a case where neither party helped themselves. They both escalated it. He had an attitude and so did she.

    It's kind of like the Zimmerman incident. If Trayyvon Martin had kept running away, he would still be alive today.

    If Sandra Bland had complied with the police officer's request, she would still be alive today.

    If Sandra Bland had been white, she would still be alive today.


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  • #162
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Why is this a race issue ? Are they trying to paint this as a murder in custody, Looks awfully like negligence. Will have to wait for the outcome. Why don't we get videos of Black cops on power trips ?


  • #163
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    cnocbui wrote: »
    If Sandra Bland had been white, she would still be alive today.

    Why does your skin tone affect your mental state ?


  • #164
    LostinKildare
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 994 ✭✭✭LostinKildare


    Billy86 wrote: »
    And not only that, but she did so in a pretty formal/professional manner. It's not like she screamed at him or used expletives or anything; she just firmly stated that she was not OK without being disrespectful to the officer.

    Yes. She was quite controlled given the situation. Apparently he had sped up and come up very close behind her, she thought he was trying to get past her so she moved over into the slow lane to let him by (as you would for police, ambulances, fire engines), then he stops her for not indicating that lane change. Cmon, it is BS. I'd be annoyed too.

    I'd say he was tailing her for the out-of-state plate -- one of the first things out of his mouth is "How long have you been in Texas?"


  • #165
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Why does your skin tone affect your mental state ?

    You missed the point entirely.


  • #166
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    How about police that respect the rights of citizens?

    :confused:

    You really think what was said was unreasonable? How exactly should he have asked her?


  • #167
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    karma_ wrote: »
    You missed the point entirely.

    No I did not, One is assuming its a racist cop. And not that he could have done the exact same thing to a white person.


  • #168
    Robsweezie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Robsweezie


    It's sad that in 2015 there is a need for a hashtag such as #blacklivesmatter


  • #169
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    You really think what was said was unreasonable? How exactly should he have asked her?

    He could have sung her a sonnet while pirouetting around sprinkling petals in all directions... she still had the right to refuse.


  • #170
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    Its not.

    Law enforcement cant go demanding citizens do anything other than obey the law.

    Thats a pretty basic right. I dont quite get why people dont understand that. In a civilized society law enforcement has to actually follow the law.

    I suppose you'd have to have some understanding of the US Constitution to understand. Or Magna Carta.

    You're going on about demands and being civilised. The cop said "(would ) you kind putting out the cigarette please". What the **** is demanding and uncivilised about that?

    Again. I'd consider it basic common courtesy to do it before even being asked.

    But answer single sentences from my posts all you like though.....


  • #171
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    No I did not, One is assuming its a racist cop. And not that he could have done the exact same thing to a white person.

    No need to assume, he was fired from his last 'Police' job for being a racist. Thanks for playing.


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  • #172
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    karma_ wrote: »
    He could have sung her a sonnet while pirouetting around sprinkling petals in all directions... she still had the right to refuse.

    So it was a perfectly reasonable request then,yeah? Glad we cleared up that. That's what the conversation was about. Nothing else.

    Is that how you deal with people in your everyday life btw? Standing there smoking in their face and if they ask you not to you just say "no, you can't legally make me stop"? Or would it be common courtesy to not do it?


  • #173
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    karma_ wrote: »
    No need to assume, he was fired from his last 'Police' job for being a racist.
    He wasn't. That was the sheriff of the country/area.


  • #174
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    karma_ wrote: »
    No need to assume, he was fired from his last 'Police' job for being a racist. Thanks for playing.

    Link ?


  • #175
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    So it was a perfectly reasonable request then,yeah? Glad we cleared up that. That's what the conversation was about. Nothing else.

    In the context, no. It was quite the opposite, he was abusing his power. He is precisely the type of filth who has no right to pull on a uniform.


  • #176
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Link ?

    See post #113


  • #177
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    karma_ wrote: »
    In the context, no. It was quite the opposite, he was abusing his power. He is precisely the type of filth who has no right to pull on a uniform.

    Link to him being fired please. And also is there any information on him having done something like this before ?


  • #178
    osarusan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    karma_ wrote: »
    See post #113
    That's about the sheriff of the county, not the officer involved.


  • #179
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Is that how you deal with people in your everyday life btw? Standing there smoking in their face and if they ask you not to you just say "no, you can't legally make me stop"? Or would it be common courtesy to not do it?

    What I would do is quite irrelevant but yes in this particular context I would explained that there was no chance in hell of me extinguishing my cigarette and proceed to tell him how much they cost in this day and age.


  • #180
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,002 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Why does your skin tone affect your mental state ?

    No, but there is overwhelming evidence that it affects the mental state of a certain proportion of police officers in the USA.

    Had she been white, she wouldn't have been threatened with being physically dragged out of her car, 'lit up' with a tazer, had her head smashed into the ground, been arrested and then put in jail because she didn't comply with an unlawful request that she put out a cigarette.


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  • #181
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,797 ✭✭✭karma_


    osarusan wrote: »
    That's about the sheriff of the county, not the officer involved.

    I'll stand corrected on that then so.


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