The arrest and death of Sandra Bland.

Hagar7

Disgraceful,totally disgraceful.
Summary.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33627708

In the video, released by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS), Brian Encinia, a white police officer, is seen issuing a ticket and then asking Bland to stub out her cigarette, which she refuses.
When she refuses to step out of the car, he tries unsuccessfully to pull her out. He then appears to threaten her with a Taser and says the words: "I will light you up."
She gets out of the car and they move out of vision, but the audio suggests the confrontation becomes physical before more officers arrive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05mAnnEnvx4

jaymcg91

Social media seems to have played a positive role in garnering this awful incident national attention in America. I believe the FBI are investigating it now.

Has cover up written ALL over it. I think I read that the Police Chief for the local area has suddenly taken early retirement?

Mmhmmm.

The Backwards Man

Thread title reads like an old Western.

Hagar7

jaymcg91 wrote: »

Social media seems to have played a positive role in garnering this awful incident national attention in America. I believe the FBI are investigating it now.

Has cover up written ALL over it. I think I read that the Police Chief for the local area has suddenly taken early retirement?

Mmhmmm.

Perhaps it might help if they ALL retired early.
660 people have been killed so far this year,
644 members of the public,16 were cops.

conorh91

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Thread title reads like an old Western.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqqQcjK2phU

Peregrine

Mod note:
After Hours isn't a newsdump. Please add a brief summary in your OP.

Son Of A Vidic

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Thread title reads like an old Western.

Worryingly, The Outlaws would obviously have to be some cops who appear to be outta control, power tripping, over reacting, intolerant & almost Nazi like in nature.

Hagar7

Hagar7 wrote: »

Perhaps it might help if they ALL retired early.
660 people have been killed so far this year,
644 members of the public,16 were cops.

But out of those 644 how many were by police and how many were by civilians?

Funny how these incidents only garner attention in the media when it's white on black, whereas if the perpetrator is black on black or black on white, nobody really seems to have the same degree of outrage.

osarusan

Deleted User wrote: »

Funny how these incidents only garner attention in the media when it's white on black, whereas if the perpetrator is black on black or black on white, nobody really seems to have the same degree of outrage.

Ah, not this sh!t again, please.

donegaLroad

She had just moved half way across the country to start a new job. Why would someone then go and hang themselves?
Something stinks here

deco nate

Hagar7 wrote: »

Perhaps it might help if they ALL retired early.
660 people have been killed so far this year,
644 members of the public,16 were cops.

But this is about a woman that died under police custody, then the police release the video that has been edited by someone and then when found out the police chief resigns.
Audio left intact /parts of the video were reused, did you watch the video?

eeepaulo

Little Hitler will be along shortly to tell us

conorh91

osarusan wrote: »

Ah, not this sh!t again, please.

It's a fair point. I don't believe you can tackle the (obvious, undisputed) problem American police have with race relations until you tackle the question of whether certain minorities display an anomalous propensity to gun crime or violent crime generally.

We shouldn't be afraid of asking questions, since nothing excuses police brutality.

Of course we can distinguish Sandra Bland's case from some of the others, in that we can see there was never any threat from Sandra Bland. It looks like a case of the policeman on a power trip, furious that his authority might be undermined by a woman smoking a cigarette in his presence.

osarusan

conorh91 wrote: »

Of course we can distinguish Sandra Bland's case from some of the others, in that we can see there was never any threat from Sandra Bland. It looks like a case of the policeman on a power trip, furious that his authority might be undermined by a woman smoking a cigarette in his presence.

Indeed, which explains my response to someone trying to shoehorn that angle into the thread.

Junkyard Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Funny how these incidents only garner attention in the media when it's white on black

The killing of white Farmers in Zimbabwe got global coverage.

RichardCeann

osarusan wrote: »

Ah, not this sh!t again, please.

Doesn't suit the narrative, no? Prefer to lay the blame for Americas racial problems on the cops instead. The majority of murders in the US are committed by African Americans. Which is staggering considering that they make up less than the 15% of the population.

deco nate

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The killing of white Farmers in Zimbabwe got global coverage.

Yea but that's because the white farmers were the minority..... Oh..... Em...

RichardCeann

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The killing of white Farmers in Zimbabwe got global coverage.

Mass killings of a particular group of people usually do. The South African farm murders currently going on gain very little traction in the media.

osarusan

osarusan wrote: »

Ah, not this sh!t again, please.

What sh*t do you mean, statistics?

The numbers don't really back up the media coverage which seems to portray an out of control police force in the US that go out of their way to brutalise and kill black people.

The story never gets told about the work the white police do to help black communities and keep them safe. Neither does black on black crime get anywhere near the same coverage.

Wompa1

The fact the video is clearly edited and looped in parts while the audio seems to be in constant flow is pretty telling.

Apparently, she actual told somebody at the Jail that she had previously attempted suicide...she checked some box on an eval form saying She was not suicidal...

there's also now rumors that she's actually dead in her mugshot!!

conorh91

osarusan wrote: »

Indeed, which explains my response to someone trying to shoehorn that angle into the thread.

He was responding quite fairly to a different point about gun crime. Maybe you should tackle the person who originally raised that stat…

Anyway sorry for adding to the derailment. There is nothing ambivalent about the policeman being at fault in how he conducted himself here. Clearly a power trip.

osarusan

conorh91 wrote: »

He was responding quite fairly to a different point about gun crime. Maybe you should tackle the person who originally raised that stat...

There was nothing fair about the response. The question they asked demonstrated that they know nothing about that particular statistic.

644 deaths refers specifically to people killed by police, and the poster is asking how many of those 644 were killed by civilians, while arguing 'statistics'.

conorh91

osarusan wrote: »

There was nothing fair about the response. The question they asked demonstrated that they know nothing about that particular statistic.

644 deaths refers specifically to people killed by police, and the poster is asking how many of those 644 were killed by civilians, while arguing 'statistics'.

But sure you can only know if that's disproportionate if you know the statistics for gun crime/ criminality amongst civilians…


If 70% of the people carrying guns in Hicksville are only 35% of the town's demographic, then you shouldn't be surprised when police interaction with that minority is two times bigger than it 'should' be. Do you get my drift?

This has nothing to do with Sandra Bland of course…..

Hagar7

Hagar7 wrote: »

660 people have been killed so far this year,
644 members of the public,16 were cops.

Deleted User wrote: »

But out of those 644 how many were by police and how many were by civilians?

osarusan wrote: »

There was nothing fair about the response. The question they asked demonstrated that they know nothing about that particular statistic.

644 deaths refers specifically to people killed by police, and the poster is asking how many of those 644 were killed by civilians, while arguing 'statistics'.

I don't get it. Please explain the stats for my simple brain.

osarusan

conorh91 wrote: »

If 70% of the people carrying guns in Hicksville are only 35% of the town's demographic, then you shouldn't be surprised when police interaction with that minority is two times bigger than it 'should' be. Do you get my drift?

This has nothing to do with Sandra Bland of course…..

Your drift doesn't have anything to do with either of my two points.

The first of which is that I don't think these arguments are relevant in a case like Sarah Bland's, and the second is that while that poster is mentioning statistics, they are clearly unfamiliar with the only one posted so far on the thread. Their question demonstrated that.

PandaPoo

People are saying she's dead and lying on the floor in her mugshot. I feel ill just thinking that's a possibility horrible story.

Junkyard Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

What sh*t do you mean, statistics?

What statistics?

deco nate

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't get it. Please explain the stats for my simple brain.

More then 664 people have been killed in the US this year.... The above is the total, deaths is involving police, police deaths have not been subtracted

osarusan

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't get it. Please explain the stats for my simple brain.

660 = police-related deaths. Of that 660:

644* = people killed by police (I get the impression you think it is the total number of deaths in the USA this year, but that is of course way higher.)

16 = number of police killed.

So when you start asking the question you did about how many of the 644* deaths were caused by civilians, it tells me that you are not at all familiar with this statistic.



*now 647.

Guy:Incognito

donegaLroad wrote: »

She had just moved half way across the country to start a new job. Why would someone then go and hang themselves?
Something stinks here

It might well turn out not to be true in this case but lots of people who seem very happy to those around them commit suicide.

Friends and family of Gary Speed commented how he seemed in a good place and talking about the future the day before he commited suicide.

crockholm

Once,when I was living over there I had an "interaction" with a cop,I made sure to answer his questions clearly and concisely,and finished the sentence with "sir",even when he asked stupid questions,even when he mocked my Irish surname,I never once gave the fukker any sassmouth.After 10-12 minutes,I was on my way.

deco nate

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It might well turn out not to be true in this case but lots of people who seem very happy to those around them commit suicide.

Friends and family of Gary Speed commented how he seemed in a good place and talking about the future the day before he commited suicide.

That's all well and good. But what about the edit video that was released by the police clearly showing the same cars going by? Who edited it and why. The fbi are investigating it now, the police chief has taken early retirement. Smells fishy

dfx-

I'm finding a lot of this amateur investigation/lynch mob stuff, reading into the colour of the face in the mugshot and why things might have been edited, very uncomfortable.

crockholm wrote: »

Once,when I was living over there I had an "interaction" with a cop,I made sure to answer his questions clearly and concisely,and finished the sentence with "sir",even when he asked stupid questions,even when he mocked my Irish surname,I never once gave the fukker any sassmouth.After 10-12 minutes,I was on my way.

Yeah, but if you had to do that everyday for 'minor' offences like changing lanes your patience would be more strenuously tested after a while I imagine.

Charlie19

Jasus that's a dreadful story and it all came about because she failed to use a car indicator. It's hard to comprehend all these rumours, I just hope there is no cover up and she did indeed take her own life. Poor woman.

InTheTrees

There's a acronym DWB that every african american knows.

It means Driving While Black.

Wompa1

Charlie19 wrote: »

Jasus that's a dreadful story and it all came about because she failed to use a car indicator. It's hard to comprehend all these rumours, I just hope there is no cover up and she did indeed take her own life. Poor woman.

My number 1 pet peeve about driving in America. NOBODY uses their indicators...he wasn't pulling her over for that. Hell, in the video he does a U-turn right after she pulls out at a junction.

He was harassing her. He claimed she changed lanes without indicating..which to me would legitimize what she said to him. She changed lanes because he was on her ass. Still...she AND everybody should use their indicators but I've driven in over 20 states here and people do not use them and I don't see people getting pulled over for it. So that's BS

Wompa1

crockholm wrote: »

Once,when I was living over there I had an "interaction" with a cop,I made sure to answer his questions clearly and concisely,and finished the sentence with "sir",even when he asked stupid questions,even when he mocked my Irish surname,I never once gave the fukker any sassmouth.After 10-12 minutes,I was on my way.

I've only been pulled over once. I was nice as pie...a few months later, I get a call from a court liaison about a warrant out for my arrest for failure to appear at court. The guy issued me a ticket to the wrong address. After telling me he quashed the ticket...Fun times. Luckily, I'm white!

A hispanic work colleague told me he got pulled over on his way to work one morning. He had a warrant out due to an unpaid ticket. He had separated from his wife. The ticket went to their house and she never told him. He spent 4 days in jail because he 'got lost in the system'

arayess

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The killing of white Farmers in Zimbabwe got global coverage.

It did but what was done about it.
Tony Blair ran into Iraq at the behest of the US and BiG Oil but allowed british passport holders to be run off their land and killed.

So apart from some crocodile tears and some tory eton old boy ranting about it ....nothing was done about. absolutely sweet fa.

The lady Sandra Bland will probably have more politicial pull than the white farmers.

AudreyHepburn

If all the rumors surrounding this case turn out to be true then it's truly sickening and the officer involved should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

However I really don't think we know enough yet to be passing judgement either way. Would be asking to much of people to withhold jumping to conclusions when we are not yet in full possession of the facts?

So far we have only Ms. Bland's side of the story in full, that's not nearly enough to convict anyone beyond doubt.

Also, and I know I will probably get lynched for this, but I refuse to believe that every single case of a black person dying in police custody in the US is a case of police brutality. Nor do I believe that every time the police knock on a black person's door or pull them over they are just harassing them.

Is it not possible of the people in these cases are actually in the wrong, not the police?

kylith

Deleted User wrote: »

But out of those 644 how many were by police and how many were by civilians?

Funny how these incidents only garner attention in the media when it's white on black, whereas if the perpetrator is black on black or black on white, nobody really seems to have the same degree of outrage.

You're right. There certainly wasn't articles about a white man who died (was killed) in police custody in Mississippi all over my Facebook yesterday. Oh wait, yes there was; it was all over my Facebook.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3168941/Troy-Goode-dies-Mississippi-incident-involving-Southaven-police-following-Widespread-Panic-concert.html

orubiru

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

If all the rumors surrounding this case turn out to be true then it's truly sickening and the officer involved should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

However I really don't think we know enough yet to be passing judgement either way. Would be asking to much of people to withhold jumping to conclusions when we are not yet in full possession of the facts?

So far we have only Ms. Bland's side of the story in full, that's not nearly enough to convict anyone beyond doubt.

Also, and I know I will probably get lynched for this, but I refuse to believe that every single case of a black person dying in police custody in the US is a case of police brutality. Nor do I believe that every time the police knock on a black person's door or pull them over they are just harassing them.

Is it not possible of the people in these cases are actually in the wrong, not the police?

I think the fact that she died in police custody puts the police in the wrong to some degree. Regardless of any conversation on race or police brutality, this kind of thing should never happen. If it does happen then there should be a full and transparent investigation.

Something that stands out for me where that she seems to have been in jail for several days before she killed herself? I thought her alleged crime would not be serious enough that they would have to hold her in jail for several days?

Another striking thing is that fact that she refuses to step out of the car when asked. I really feel like if I lived in a culture that frequently reports stories of people just like me being beaten up or killed by police in questionable circumstances that I would just cooperate. Refusing to get out of the car is just giving them an excuse to do whatever they are gonna do.

Here in Ireland we seem to be overly exposed to a lot of these kinds of stories from the USA. We don't really ever find out about incidents where people die in suspicious circumstances involving police in countries like Estonia or Angola or Singapore (just listing random countries) unless it involves an Irish citizen.

While it is clear that someone who is arrested and taken in to custody by the police should never end up dead, is a single incident like this in the USA really worthy of worldwide media attention?

DarkyHughes

Deleted User wrote: »

But out of those 644 how many were by police and how many were by civilians?

Funny how these incidents only garner attention in the media when it's white on black, whereas if the perpetrator is black on black or black on white, nobody really seems to have the same degree of outrage.

You haven't watched the O'Reilly Factor.

zeffabelli

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

If all the rumors surrounding this case turn out to be true then it's truly sickening and the officer involved should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

However I really don't think we know enough yet to be passing judgement either way. Would be asking to much of people to withhold jumping to conclusions when we are not yet in full possession of the facts?

So far we have only Ms. Bland's side of the story in full, that's not nearly enough to convict anyone beyond doubt.

Also, and I know I will probably get lynched for this, but I refuse to believe that every single case of a black person dying in police custody in the US is a case of police brutality. Nor do I believe that every time the police knock on a black person's door or pull them over they are just harassing them.

Is it not possible of the people in these cases are actually in the wrong, not the police?

I'd say white people get harassed too.

Cops have a huge sense of entitlement as do low level enforcement. Trickle down effect of the patriot act and some policies Clinton brought in. That's why US has the insane incarceration rate that it does.

No one will respect enforcement at this rate, just making fools of themselves.

Vojera

orubiru wrote: »

Another striking thing is that fact that she refuses to step out of the car when asked. I really feel like if I lived in a culture that frequently reports stories of people just like me being beaten up or killed by police in questionable circumstances that I would just cooperate. Refusing to get out of the car is just giving them an excuse to do whatever they are gonna do.

Conversely you may feel safer with a car door between yourself and the police officer. You may feel that stepping out of the car is removing your last defence.

MonkeyTennis

Interview with ex Baltimore cop Michael A Wood on his real experiences. Some truly shocking revelations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5nPyf-0UMc

wakka12

Deleted User wrote: »

But out of those 644 how many were by police and how many were by civilians?

Funny how these incidents only garner attention in the media when it's white on black, whereas if the perpetrator is black on black or black on white, nobody really seems to have the same degree of outrage.

Because blacks are an oppressed minority and whites arent. Do you think anyone would care if a gay guy beat up a guy for being straight?It sounds so ridiculous it might gain attention due to the novelty of the event but I doubt anyone would feel too much sympathy for the victim, but if the roles were reversed it would be different.

wakka12

Oh my god if she's dead in those mugshots I will have lost all faith in humanity that is just beyond awful to think about

orubiru

Vojera wrote: »

Conversely you may feel safer with a car door between yourself and the police officer. You may feel that stepping out of the car is removing your last defence.

I did consider this and I was wary of getting involved in blaming the victim as I think the police are clearly in the wrong here (again) BUT given the reputation of the police in the USA if one of them asked me to get out of my car I would be making sure that I did what they asked without provoking them.

I don't think we can ignore that he asks her to stub out her cigarette and she refuses, he asks her to get out of the car and she refuses. It also seems he called for back up?

Of course, all of this distracts us from the real issue that this lady was taken in to custody and then is found dead a few days later. This is unacceptable. Even if it was a suicide it's unacceptable that this should happen to someone who has been taken into police custody.

The social media agenda here seems to be to focus on the circumstances of the arrest and tie that in with the circumstances surrounding her death.

Is there no room at all for the argument that if she had just stubbed out the cigarette after he had issued the ticket then she would have been on her way with no drama?

kylith

orubiru wrote: »

Is there no room at all for the argument that if she had just stubbed out the cigarette after he had issued the ticket then she would have been on her way with no drama?

Is anyone arguing that the penalty for not getting out of a car and for smoking a cigarette should be arrest? What would she be charged with? "Not respecting my authoritah"?

BattleCorp

kylith wrote: »

Is anyone arguing that the penalty for not getting out of a car and for smoking a cigarette should be arrest? What would she be charged with? "Not respecting my authoritah"?

What's the problem in doing what a cop asks?

If it was me in the traffic stop, I'd follow the cops orders.

If he asked me to put out a cigarette and get out of a car, then that's what I'd do. Am I wrong to follow the directions of a police officer?

If she did what the cop asked in the first place, she'd be alive today.

kylith

BattleCorp wrote: »

What's the problem in doing what a cop asks?

If it was me in the traffic stop, I'd follow the cops orders.

If he asked me to put out a cigarette and get out of a car, then that's what I'd do. Am I wrong to follow the directions of a police officer?

If she did what the cop asked in the first place, she'd be alive today.

Hey, so would I, but I also don't see what the big whoop about putting a fag out is. So she was smoking; does that make him incapable of issuing her with a ticket?

I find it discomforting that you seem to be saying that by smoking and not wanting to get out of her car she somehow brought about her own death, or that those actions somehow justify the fact that she later died in custody. Do you think that dying in a police cell is an acceptable outcome for the heinous crimes of smoking and not wanting to get out of a car?