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10 reasons why IRL should say no to IAG on their Aer Lingus offer

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13

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    #62
    hytrogen
    Registered Users Posts: 952 ✭✭✭hytrogen


    So like the banks everything should be nationalized? And where exactly will that get us?
    National Health service is worse than a considered 3rd world country (first hand experience, go to Cuba or Kenya; top rate quality health service which is apologetic for costing so much and a delay of 3 days to get a scan, same scan in HSE 8month waiting list!!)
    So prices go up, inflation caused by very cheap interest and cheap credit. We're running out of fossil fuels and clean air, don't even mention water!
    More competition and the flexibility of a corporate structure without so many pigeons from the Dail with their fingers in the mud means it'll turn a profit finally!
    And don't even get me started on how mundane and backwards the unions are!!!


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    #63
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    hytrogen wrote: »
    So like the banks everything should be nationalized? And where exactly will that get us?
    National Health service is worse than a considered 3rd world country (first hand experience, go to Cuba or Kenya; top rate quality health service which is apologetic for costing so much and a delay of 3 days to get a scan, same scan in HSE 8month waiting list!!)
    So prices go up, inflation caused by very cheap interest and cheap credit. We're running out of fossil fuels and clean air, don't even mention water!
    More competition and the flexibility of a corporate structure without so many pigeons from the Dail with their fingers in the mud means it'll turn a profit finally!
    And don't even get me started on how mundane and backwards the unions are!!!

    Aer lingus makes a profit. How in God's name can the competition authority above this takeover. Just shows what a joke the eu is. When it comes to core principles like competition , a blind eye will be turned as long as you are a preferred business.


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    #64
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Dob74 wrote: »
    Aer lingus makes a profit. How in God's name can the competition authority above this takeover. Just shows what a joke the eu is. When it comes to core principles like competition , a blind eye will be turned as long as you are a preferred business.

    Before mentioning jokes, I'd suggest spend some time studying the topic, you'll be amazed at what you discover!


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    #65
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    Jim2007 wrote:
    Before mentioning jokes, I'd suggest spend some time studying the topic, you'll be amazed at what you discover!


    Like what? Love flying ba to the states but now with the only irish competitor out of the way they can charge what they want. Why sell a profitable airline at the end of a recession. It's fine Gael selling off state assets on the cheap.


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    #66
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    jimmycrackcorm wrote:
    In case you didn't realize it, Aer Lingus hasn't been our national airline for many years. You could consider that Ryanair is. Also the last few times I flew to the U.S. other airlines were much cheaper.


    And sadly with competition taken out of the market flights to the states will go up. I personally don't like flying AL. But the British version of it taking it over won't be an improvement.


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    #67
    WheatenBriar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,170 ✭✭✭WheatenBriar


    I think it's inevitable that flights to the U.S will become more expensive as AA,BA and EI will no longer be competing
    A number of smaller carriers to Canada in summer time may mitigate that to a small extent but continental are unlikely to compete when there's money to be made
    Ryanair and others will keep prices to the UK and Europe lower,so no worries there

    On the net jobs front,it's all good though, and there may be some spin off via more one world alliance passengers visiting Ireland en route to Europe


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    #68
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Dob74 wrote: »
    Why sell a profitable airline at the end of a recession. It's fine Gael selling off state assets on the cheap.

    It was privatised in 2006 long before FG had the opportunity to have a say.

    Do you object to BA taking control of AL or that it was sold off?


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    #69
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,066 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Dob74 wrote: »
    Like what? Love flying ba to the states but now with the only irish competitor out of the way they can charge what they want. Why sell a profitable airline at the end of a recession. It's fine Gael selling off state assets on the cheap.

    There are sufficient carriers around to ensure competition. As for profitability, that is doubtful as it falls to questionable accounting rules in most cases. In general airlines are basket cases and you should not own one unless you have to.


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    #70
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    on a random search of airfares BA via London comes up cheaper than Aer Lingus direct

    in another it is an extra €40


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    #71
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    kbannon wrote:
    Do you object to BA taking control of AL or that it was sold off?


    A competitor taking over is my problem. If you fly to the states and are not from dub. Flying ba through Heathrow is the easiest way to travel. Since Cork is completely dependent on US companies it is critical that this route is protected. In 7 years it's gone.
    For some reason people in Dublin seem to be kidding themselves that ba will continue the frequency of flights.
    Just shows that this country is run by a bunch of degenerate gambles who would sell state assets on the cheap for short term gain.


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    #72
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Dob74 wrote: »
    Just shows that this country is run by a bunch of degenerate gambles who would sell state assets on the cheap for short term gain.
    Well why post now about it now?
    Where are all your posts from before it was privatised years ago?
    You're seven or so years too late to show faux outrage!


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    #73
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    Riskymove wrote:
    on a random search of airfares BA via London comes up cheaper than Aer Lingus direct

    Riskymove wrote:
    in another it is an extra €40

    Nearly Always cheaper to go with BA. Bet they will be priced the same in the near future


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    #74
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    Where are all your posts from before it was privatised years ago? /quote]

    On a server some where I assume.

    The 30% stake still protects the landing slots in Heathrow. To sell them for 300 million is pretty cheap.


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    #75
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,371 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    In seven years time, the biggest employer in Cork, Apple, will probably be running the world so it won't be an issue!


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    #76
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Its a pity Ryanair was blocked from completing the takeover, had they succeeded the cost of long distance flights would have come down a lot. I am not persuaded "competition" was an adequate excuse for blocking a takeover by Ryanair. After all, the aviation industry is international by nature. Besides, if the Irish and British governments were genuinely concerned about monopolies they would privatize everything, but that is politicians for you, hypocritical to the end.

    Still, Ryanair will no doubt find another long haul airline to takeover, most likely some state owned basket case. That reminds me, fairplay to Ryanair for helping the Greeks out in their hour of need with their 5 euro fares (not that the Greeks deserve it). Also nice to know Ryanair made a tidy profit on their Aer Lingus shares. So pop the corks and raise your glasses: To Ryanair!


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    #77
    ScottSF
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭ScottSF


    Another loss for flights to/from the U.S. is that Aer Lingus was a partner with multiple airline alliances. They didn't belong to any. So you could book a connecting flight with United Airlines + Aer Lingus on one ticket for example.

    So unless a Star Alliance airline offers a new flight from Dublin to London, that option would be off the table for travelers that are frequent fliers on SA. So if a direct Ireland flight is not optimal for a trip, you'll have to connect via Zurich or Frankfurt or Copenhagen. Obviously London is a better hub to avoid flying a extra hours in the wrong direction when going to the USA :)

    Again as stated above, fewer options can lead to higher prices.


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    #78
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    Impetus wrote: »
    If the sale of Aer Lingus to IAG is allowed to go ahead, the cost of air travel to/from Ireland will double. Especially to/from North America and GB. Airline crews won’t benefit from these higher prices – quite the opposite with complaining passengers. The extra cash will go into a dark pool.
    BA business class to JFK is currently EUR 7’167 equivalent. Because they can get away with it. (Shortage of runway slots etc). BA “Economy” one way is EUR 1,630.

    Aer Lingus economy to JFK is EUR 735 on the same date. Or €2’418 business.

    BA prices are 2x to 3x higher than Aer Lingus.
    The quality of service is horrible on BA, as it is on US airlines. And the security paranoia creates needless hassle for ordinary, non-“terrorist” travellers.

    Britain and America created “terrorism” by their invasion and attempted cultural take-over of other countries. There would have been no IRA if GB behaved in a civilised manner (eg like Switzerland). And there would be no ISIS if GB/US did not attempt to steal control of Iraq under the “weapons of mass destruction” lie.

    As an Irish citizen I do not want my national airline to be taken over by this lot. Period.I like neutrality. And I don’t want a national airline to be owned by a foreign based company in the event of a Brexit. (Not to be confused with a GRexit – because the Greeks have loved being Europeans for centuries). And I don’t want to increase the risk of travel by becoming a victim of terrorism by some poor disenfranchised group of people who get confused and mix up Aer Lingus with Britishness.

    It seems to me that the gov.ie and EU competition authorities have been clueless on the competition impact of this transaction. And Ireland has been clueless about the impact on Irish airports of the event in terms of handling PAX flow, and extra runway movements and how service levels will fall and queues will increase as people who have zero interest in visiting Ireland get pumped through a non-system devised by Willie Walsh & co.
    US multi-nationals based in Ireland have picked Ireland because it is easy to get to and from the US. The proposed IAG transaction will bring hell to the traveller to/from the US.

    Allowing IAG to steal Aer Lingus and its brand, will probably cost Ireland more than the post Celtic Tiger era debt.

    This "deal" is just an under-priced acquisition of the goodwill of a neutral state airline by another airline which is based in a country that are hated by by probably 50% of the population of the planet. It is impossible to put a price on Aer Lingus's goodwill, in this context.

    The politicians who
    allow the transaction to take place deserve to be put on the firing line, and taken out by expert marksmen, at the earliest ballot box opportunity.

    I see your back again with another load of trollop

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=96096310

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=94694432

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=94396800

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057376580


    The reality is that the deal is a great deal for Ireland Inc. How many times has the country being held to ransome by Aer Lingus. The EU finally stopped them AL from coming cap in hand ever 10 years to cover commercial losses.

    AL cannot expand without raisinghuge funds on the market. This market would refuse to lend ( by buying new shares) if it considered taht the government would always limit commercial options. The airline industry is noted by it failures. The giovernment has sold AL maybe not at a profit but still it has offloaded a potential liability. It would be great if it could do the same with the oold bunch of CIE company's.


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    #79
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    On North American routes alone, there are minimum 3 airlines in direct competition with EI. To expect IAG won't be competitive via EI on these routes is complete nonsense.


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    #80
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    FreudianSlippers wrote:
    On North American routes alone, there are minimum 3 airlines in direct competition with EI. To expect IAG won't be competitive via EI on these routes is complete nonsense.


    Which ones? Mostly if you fly ua or aa it's an Aer Lingus flight.


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    #81
    Impetus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,667 ✭✭✭Impetus


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    On North American routes alone, there are minimum 3 airlines in direct competition with EI. To expect IAG won't be competitive via EI on these routes is complete nonsense.

    Competition on airline matters depends on routes. Not everybody competes on all routes. Far from it. US based airlines charge far more than European airlines. BA charges far more than most other European airlines - especially if you are comparing quality of service, cuisine, aircraft condition, and "security politeness" which is appalling at British airports, and little better at Irish airports, especially Dublin - but not limited to Dublin.

    Flying the Atlantic from Ireland is going to get a lot more expensive in the post IAG environment for real world events (ie ignoring special offers to fly at super off peak periods).

    Baggage handling on connections at British airports is appalling by European standards. Delayed/lost luggage is a big factor at LHR.


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    #82
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Dob74 wrote: »
    Which ones? Mostly if you fly ua or aa it's an Aer Lingus flight.
    Never heard of AA codesharing with EI. With UA, ORD and IAD are definitely on UA aircraft.


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    #83
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Impetus wrote: »
    If the sale of Aer Lingus to IAG is allowed to go ahead, the cost of air travel to/from Ireland will double. ......

    ....and will still be a lot cheaper than it was 20 years ago when they practically had the monopoly on air travel between here and the UK.

    I think it's a great coup for the country and if anything we'll see increased connectivity as BA / IAG look to use Dublin to alleviate some of the pressure on Heathrow.


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    #84
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Impetus wrote: »
    Competition on airline matters depends on routes. Not everybody competes on all routes. Far from it. US based airlines charge far more than European airlines. BA charges far more than most other European airlines - especially if you are comparing quality of service, cuisine, aircraft condition, and "security politeness" which is appalling at British airports, and little better at Irish airports, especially Dublin - but not limited to Dublin.

    Flying the Atlantic from Ireland is going to get a lot more expensive in the post IAG environment for real world events (ie ignoring special offers to fly at super off peak periods).

    Baggage handling on connections at British airports is appalling by European standards. Delayed/lost luggage is a big factor at LHR.
    EI is still going to operate as EI out of Ireland on Atlantic routes. They will now compete with UA outside of the codeshare, although they may start code-sharing with AA as a part of oneworld (presumably). Air Canada remains the cheapest option most of the year to fly to N.America and that will not change.

    UK airports are moot.


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    #85
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    FreudianSlippers wrote:
    EI is still going to operate as EI out of Ireland on Atlantic routes. They will now compete with UA outside of the codeshare, although they may start code-sharing with AA as a part of oneworld (presumably). Air Canada remains the cheapest option most of the year to fly to N.America and that will not change.

    FreudianSlippers wrote:
    UK airports are moot.

    FreudianSlippers wrote:
    EI is still going to operate as EI out of Ireland on Atlantic routes. They will now compete with UA outside of the codeshare, although they may start code-sharing with AA as a part of oneworld (presumably). Air Canada remains the cheapest option most of the year to fly to N.America and that will not change.


    EI has only a hand full of direct routes. As for air Canada being cheap I don't think so. I assume they are cheap to Canada but for merica, Try BA or Klm always better priced than EI.


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    #86
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Dob74 wrote: »
    EI has only a hand full of direct routes. As for air Canada being cheap I don't think so. I assume they are cheap to Canada but for merica, Try BA or Klm always better priced than EI.
    So your argument to support the "fact" EI will raise prices and stifle competition under IAG ownership is that it is cheaper to fly to the USA from another country? :confused:

    Yeah... so? I'm missing your point here - are you claiming this isn't the case with EI owned by the government/Ryanair?

    Your implication that Canada (somehow not counting as trans-Atlantic in your views?) doesn't count is equally ridiculous. Toronto direct with a connection into anywhere in the US is extraordinarily cheap. Even better fly to Calgary of Vancouver BC and connect to the West Coast.


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    #87
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    FreudianSlippers wrote:
    Yeah... so? I'm missing your point here - are you claiming this isn't the case with EI owned by the government/Ryanair?


    It's called competition. If you use snn or ork the EI price is a bit less than ba. I have no doubt EI watch the ba price and work from there. now its get ready to be screwed. They can charge what they like.


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    #88
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Dob74 wrote: »
    It's called competition. If you use snn or ork the EI price is a bit less than ba. I have no doubt EI watch the ba price and work from there. now its get ready to be screwed. They can charge what they like.
    ORK has no routes to North America; are you suggesting that it's cheaper to fly from SNN to London and then to North America via BA?

    Otherwise, I think you're losing track of what point you're attempting to make? :confused:


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    #89
    Johnnyjump
    Registered Users Posts: 324 ✭✭Johnnyjump


    When the competition from other airlines is removed, BA can then charge what ever they like.


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    #90
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Johnnyjump wrote: »
    When the competition from other airlines is removed, BA can then charge what ever they like.
    But... am I missing something here? How is the competition on North American routes going to be removed? :confused:

    On European routes, are you seriously suggesting an IAG owned EI is going to operate in cahoots with Ryanair?


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    #91
    Dob74
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dob74


    FreudianSlippers wrote:
    On European routes, are you seriously suggesting an IAG owned EI is going to operate in cahoots with Ryanair?


    Two easy ways to go to merica. EI out dub or through Heathrow with BA. Both where separate companies in competition. Now two become one and IAG can charge what they like. Unless they don't like making money of course.


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