Donegal GAA Discussion Thread

eddie73 · 21-07-2015 10:06AM

Just read an earlier post about the lack of intensity in our players, and the fact that we needed goals to beat Tyrone and Derry. This might well be the case in the Derry game, but we definitely did not need goals to win the Tyrone game, yes we got one at a crucial time, but we could easily have got 2 more had it not been for some great tyrone goalkeeping. We forget the Armagh game, as poor as they were, we were very good that day. My point about acknowledging their efforts is on the back of some great results and performances too. It is not just bravado talk.

I do think that we were tired on sunday. We looked bereft of zip, akin to 2013 with the exception that monaghan were not as good on sunday over 70 minutes whilst they were in 2013 for 70. This worries me for the next day and really bothers me thereafter should we get over Galway.

Had we won on sunday, there is an argument that we would have had a good break and an easier match against tyrone or galway in the quarters. This is easy talk, we struggled last year to get past armagh at the same stage and on the back of an ulster win.

The reality is that our running game is very exhausting, we have a small squad and if we meet a team who takes their chances, we are in trouble.

On a final note, did anyone else notice the amount of times our forwards were turned over after slipping on the turf in Clones? I couldnt understand how our lads couldnt keep their feet when they turned as opposed to monaghan who were more assured on their feet.

doc_17 · 21-07-2015 10:14AM

Jayop wrote: »

Really? There's been r4 games in croke park for years before sky came in.

Between who? What is the justification for playing games at HQ? Surely it is one of 3 things:

1. Capacity - no other venue can accommodate the crowd.
2. Fair neutral venue
3. Dublin aren't allowed to play away matches in the championship (for whatever reason and I'm not blaming Dublin for that).

None of these apply here. It is a disgrace of a decision. I was speaking to few Sligo people last night and they believe they will get a very poor turnout.

Redsoxfan · 21-07-2015 10:23AM

eddie73 wrote: »

I do think that we were tired on sunday. We looked bereft of zip, akin to 2013 with the exception that monaghan were not as good on sunday over 70 minutes whilst they were in 2013 for 70. This worries me for the next day and really bothers me thereafter should we get over Galway.

Had we won on sunday, there is an argument that we would have had a good break and an easier match against tyrone or galway in the quarters. This is easy talk, we struggled last year to get past armagh at the same stage and on the back of an ulster win.

The reality is that our running game is very exhausting, we have a small squad and if we meet a team who takes their chances, we are in trouble.

Fully agree with this. This team looked tired against Derry. It doesn't make sense however - training is meant to be 'easier' this year. But maybe that's the problem?

Rory Gallagher was in Killarney to watch the first Kerry v Cork game. He obviously expected or at least planned to win on Sunday. Something's not right.

Redsoxfan · 21-07-2015 10:25AM

Sligo and Enniskillen would have been adequate for the demand for these games.

Heck, I have no real interest in heading in to watch Sligo v Tyrone after Sligo's capitulation on Sunday. We won't learn much about Tyrone from watching that game.

doc_17 · 21-07-2015 10:26AM

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Fully agree with this. This team looked tired against Derry. It doesn't make sense however - training is meant to be 'easier' this year. But maybe that's the problem?

Rory Gallagher was in Killarney to watch the first Kerry v Cork game. He obviously expected or at least planned to win on Sunday. Something's not right.

I suppose that would be just preparing for all eventualities maybe. I'd imagine there will be no league games now this week due to the 13 day rule although some clubs are playing away.

doc_17 · 21-07-2015 10:27AM

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Sligo and Enniskillen would have been adequate for the demand for these games.

Heck, I have no real interest in heading in to watch Sligo v Tyrone after Sligo's capitulation on Sunday. We won't learn much about Tyrone from watching that game.

Yeah Tyrone will annihilate poor Sligo. I'm eagerly awaiting Jim's column. Wonder he mention the manager by name this week!

Redsoxfan · 21-07-2015 10:29AM

doc_17 wrote: »

I suppose that would be just preparing for all eventualities maybe.

Pity that Mayo v Galway clashed with our game in Armagh....

doc_17 · 21-07-2015 10:31AM

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Pity that Mayo v Galway clashed with our game in Armagh....

Yeah it is. And I'm sure he was away watching Dublin too. They all be at it and I'm sure Jim Gavin was in either Hyde Park or Clones on Sunday

Fr Tod Umptious · 21-07-2015 10:42AM

doc_17 wrote: »

Between who? What is the justification for playing games at HQ? Surely it is one of 3 things:

1. Capacity - no other venue can accommodate the crowd.
2. Fair neutral venue
3. Dublin aren't allowed to play away matches in the championship (for whatever reason and I'm not blaming Dublin for that).

None of these apply here. It is a disgrace of a decision. I was speaking to few Sligo people last night and they believe they will get a very poor turnout.

In 2008 the following final qualifier round games were in CP on the bank holiday weekend

Mayo v Tyrone
Kerry v Monaghan
Kildare v Fermanagh
Wexford v Down.

And over the years there have been many others, Kerry v Armagh in 2006, Galway v Cork in 2013 are other examples.

It's nothing new unfortunately.

bob skunkhouse · 21-07-2015 11:32AM

eddie73 wrote: »

On a final note, did anyone else notice the amount of times our forwards were turned over after slipping on the turf in Clones? I couldnt understand how our lads couldnt keep their feet when they turned as opposed to monaghan who were more assured on their feet.

100%! Even commented to the buck beside me on the studs they must have been wearing.

charlie14 · 21-07-2015 12:40PM

babybuilder wrote: »

Donegal are going to have their hands full with the Galway midfield. Indeed they have a couple of good forwards. Paradoxically we should play our normal game against Galway and not start changing things too much. Monaghan were a different proposition.

I would agree with you that the Galway midfield will be a handfull, and they have a few handy forwards. O Griofa has come on this year and Walsh back for the Derry game is another boost for them.
As to playing our normal game, I believe that playing our normal game was the main reason we lost on Sunday.
Derry showed how to counteract it, we struggled, and then went into the Monaghan game with the same set-up. We were way too predictible, and as against Derry when it wasn`t working there didn`t appear to be a plan B.
For me the weakness in this Galway team is at full back. Hanley under the dropping ball is no great shakes.
Murphy at full and Mc Brearty feeding off him for me is how we should go. As perhaps we should have gone against Monaghan when we saw how they were set up and especially as Murphy looked to be carrying an injury.
It would have given Monaghan something to think about in that rather than trying to break their line constantly and being forced wide or turned over, we would have the option when forced wide, the diagional ball aimed at Murphy.
Even if we get past Galway, the game plan that has been a constant all year will not do against any team in the QF in that both of those teams have shown how to counteract it.
Time for a plan B imo.

fullstop · 21-07-2015 02:01PM

eddie73 wrote: »

I do think that we were tired on sunday. We looked bereft of zip, akin to 2013 with the exception that monaghan were not as good on sunday over 70 minutes whilst they were in 2013 for 70. This worries me for the next day and really bothers me thereafter should we get over Galway.

This is what worries me too, should Donegal win like against Laois in 2013, they're facing a very quick turnaround against a very fresh Mayo team (again). Look at Monaghan last year too, extra time against Kildare in the qualifier after losing the Ulster final and beaten out the gate by Dublin 2 weeks later. They looked like they didn't have much in the tank that day either. Gallagher will have been planning everything around winning Ulster with regards training and rest days, so it'll be a big challenge to get everyone ready to go again IMO.

Nidgeweasel · 21-07-2015 05:44PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

In 2008 the following final qualifier round games were in CP on the bank holiday weekend

Mayo v Tyrone
Kerry v Monaghan
Kildare v Fermanagh
Wexford v Down.

And over the years there have been many others, Kerry v Armagh in 2006, Galway v Cork in 2013 are other examples.

It's nothing new unfortunately.

That was a quarter final. Armagh won Ulster. Donegal beat Fermanagh in Brewster Park of all places in round 4.

Not that it matters obviously, your point remains.

harpsman · 21-07-2015 07:02PM

Disappointed not to have won a 4th title in 5 years-it would have been a great achievement for a county that had only won 5 in the previous hundred odd years particularly as I don't think we were ever serious all ireland contenders this year. It would always have been a bridge too far for a very small panel with alot of miles on the clock and having such a tough draw.

In terms of performance it was fairly predictable- we' ve always struggled against teams that set up defensively. Its no coincidence that our 2 outstanding performances in the last 5 years were against Cork 12 and Dublin 14-2 teams that played with 6 forwards and attacking half backs and left alot of space that were perfect for our counter attacking game plan. Even against Derry this year- a team that were really just going through the motions we had no strategy for creating scoring chances against a team that set up a defensive line 40 yards from goal. We've always been dependent on keeping the opposition score low and a few long distance scores from Murphy and Mcfadden, from play and frees. Unfortunately we coughed up a couple of bad scores in the 1st half, Colm missed a few and Murphy didn't have a shot all day. On top of that the guys who would have been breaking the defensive line in the past- Toye, Lacey, Kavanagh and McLoone either gone or legs gone.

Lastly, given that our whole game is based on workrate and energy the fact that we're just a tired looking outfit against a fresher, hungrier team then we're going to struggle.

Anyway its been 5 great years, just hope it doesnt end with a hammering!!

harpsman · 21-07-2015 07:50PM

Would have to take issue with a few points
1-"we should have pressured Monaghan further up the field in the 1st half and not dropped back so much".
Have you watched any of our games over the last 5 years-thats how we play. You either press teams up the field like Mayo or you drop back like Donegal- you cant do both. Also, we were playing against the wind in the 1st have so we were always going to try to contain them til half time. I certainly expected to go in behind at ht and ithink Donegal would have been quite happy goin in down a couple. The inability to score and those bad turnovers were the main problem.

2-"McFadden should be dropped."
Disagree. Think hes playing well. Sure he did kick a few wides but they were from half chances that he had to manufacture himself. Id still rather have a wide than turning the ball over after going over and back for 20 passes.

3- Leo mcloone is fast becoming the Andy reid of Donegal gaa. The longer hes off the team the more his reputation grows. Good player yes but don't think he deserved to go straiyin the last day.

Ceist_Beag · 21-07-2015 09:30PM

harpsman wrote: »

2-"McFadden should be dropped."
Disagree. Think hes playing well. Sure he did kick a few wides but they were from half chances that he had to manufacture himself. Id still rather have a wide than turning the ball over after going over and back for 20 passes.

I agree with most of what you say harpsman but really can't agree with this one. I would need to see the stats but my view was that McFadden was our second biggest offender on Sunday of turning over possession (McElhinney being the biggest offender from what I remember of it). So not only was he taking on ridiculous kicks under pressure (as he did against Derry aside from a few cracking points) but he also brought the ball into traffic far too often (as he did against Derry). I was Colms biggest fan a few years back but I really don't think he has the brain for the midfield role nor the legs for the full forward role.

Nidgeweasel · 21-07-2015 09:52PM

harpsman wrote: »

3- Leo mcloone is fast becoming the Andy reid of Donegal gaa. The longer hes off the team the more his reputation grows. Good player yes but don't think he deserved to go straiyin the last day.

Couldn't disagree more with this. Leo's reputation comes from his performances at minor, u-21, senior and with his club.

I do not need convincing as to his merits. He's proven his credentials often enough. I'd have started him on Sunday myself and dropped someone like Christy or even Colm Anthony who could then come on and make a big difference with 20 to go.

As it was we left him off far too long he should have been in much earlier. He should start the next day.

babybuilder · 21-07-2015 10:35PM

harpsman wrote: »

Would have to take issue with a few points
1-"we should have pressured Monaghan further up the field in the 1st half and not dropped back so much".
Have you watched any of our games over the last 5 years-thats how we play. You either press teams up the field like Mayo or you drop back like Donegal- you cant do both. Also, we were playing against the wind in the 1st have so we were always going to try to contain them til half time. I certainly expected to go in behind at ht and ithink Donegal would have been quite happy goin in down a couple. The inability to score and those bad turnovers were the main problem.

2-"McFadden should be dropped."
Disagree. Think hes playing well. Sure he did kick a few wides but they were from half chances that he had to manufacture himself. Id still rather have a wide than turning the ball over after going over and back for 20 passes.

3- Leo mcloone is fast becoming the Andy reid of Donegal gaa. The longer hes off the team the more his reputation grows. Good player yes but don't think he deserved to go straiyin the last day.

Sorry but I have to disagree. Donegal played their best football on Sunday by pushing up the field and pressurising Monaghan. We know that in the majority of games that has been our approach. Were you at the national league match in Letterkenny against Monaghan? The whole game was exactly like our first half display and guess who won by a point or two . Its not a massive tactical switch to press higher up the field especially when the opposition are not counting on it. Our style of play is becoming very predictable and has been found out by Kerry (who pushed up on us) and Monaghan who knew how we would set up.
Remember how we "contained" Mayo in 2012? We destroyed them in the first 15 minutes. OTOH against Monaghan we retreated handing over the initiative. I predicted that we were going to get caught doing this at against a quality team.

I would have liked for us to go in 1 or 2 points down at halftime but not 3 and then 4. I also agree that inability to score and poor decision making cost us but panic had set in meaning that things were rushed.
Mc Fadden is playing because of previous exploits and that our panel is very bare not on much else. How you an say that McLoon is becoming an Andy Reid type is beyond me? If he is good enough and is showing it in training he should start.
Another aspect of our play that worries me is our fitness levels/energy. I had heard that part of the falling out between McGuinness and Gallagher was over McGuinness's arduous training schedule. Are they fit enough to play their particular brand of football? Or is it miles on the clock, not enough in the tank? Only those on the inside will know.

harpsman · 21-07-2015 10:37PM

Ceist_Beag wrote: »

I agree with most of what you say harpsman but really can't agree with this one. I would need to see the stats but my view was that McFadden was our second biggest offender on Sunday of turning over possession (McElhinney being the biggest offender from what I remember of it). So not only was he taking on ridiculous kicks under pressure (as he did against Derry aside from a few cracking points) but he also brought the ball into traffic far too often (as he did against Derry). I was Colms biggest fan a few years back but I really don't think he qhas the brain for the midfield role nor the legs for the full forward role.

Aside from a few cracking points? When you only score 1-9 then 2 cracking points is a pretty big contribution. I felt he was willing to take responsibility when noone else would and for that id applaud him. Would have been very easy to just pass it on to someone else. Anyway who would you replace him with?

On a separate issue it's ironic that in the first ten minutes of all our games this year we seemed to have developed a really good attacking system to beat massed defence with a great mixture of short passing, support runs and short and long kicks. However after that we seemed to completely run out of ideas to the point on Sunday where it ended up with one player just running as far as he could, totally unsupported until he was dispossessed or just turned around and kicked the ball back. In fairness to Mark McHugh he did provide some penetration in the second half but i felt we got a good few soft frees as well. Was there a strategy to create chances or was it just a case that the players didnt have the energy to carry it out?

eddie73 · 21-07-2015 10:44PM

McFadden will struggle badly against Mayo should we get that far. He was poor on sunday, mind you the supply he was given wasnt top drawer, but any time he tried to run at the monaghan defense, he was dispossessed very easily indeed.

I hope that Odhran mc neilis can regather some form too. I thought he was strangely anonymous on sunday, for such a young talent. He and Mcilhenney didnt get going at all.

If I were to change anything in the next couple of weeks, I would rotate the full forward line and rest gallagher as well as murphy, by doing this. Having said that, the more I think about the challenge ahead, the more I am thinking that we will be very lucky to avoid a drubbing. Its an awful thing to have to watch, and I wouldnt like Gallagher to have that on his report sheet at the end of the year, coupled with a few retirements. It could set a precedent for the county, and none of us want to go back to them old days.

henke · 21-07-2015 10:55PM

On the other hand they might be well up for a crack at Mayo. They might want to set the record straight after 2013 and not get tanked by them again. Mayo impressed against Sligo but still hard to judge how good they are and we got a draw there in the league. If we could somehow win our next two matches and give the Dubs a decent game it probably represent a highly successful season from the current point we are at. Sam is beyond us when you look at who we would have to beat I'm afraid.

babybuilder · 21-07-2015 11:03PM

Mc guinness played McNiallais as an outlet on the left wing that gave good width to our play. When the play went up one side last Sunday there was no one on the other wing where there was acres of space. Monaghan swithced play excellently avoiding contact and waiting till the opportunity arose.

I have the smae feeling that I had when we played Down in Breffini in 2013 and it will take a miracle for us to get past Mayo if we are able to beat Galway in Croker.

I hope that Murphy, Lacey and McBrearty can recover in time.

harpsman · 21-07-2015 11:06PM

babybuilder wrote: »

Sorry but I have to disagree. Donegal played their best football on Sunday by pushing up the field and pressurising Monaghan. We know that in the majority of games that has been our approach. Were you at the national league match in Letterkenny against Monaghan? The whole game was exactly like our first half display and guess who won by a point or two . Its not a massive tactical switch to press higher up the field especially when the opposition are not counting on it. Our style of play is becoming very predictable and has been found out by Kerry (who pushed up on us) and Monaghan who knew how we would set up.
Remember how we "contained" Mayo in 2012? We destroyed them in the first 15 minutes. OTOH against Monaghan we retreated handing over the initiative. I predicted that we were going to get caught doing this at against a quality team.

I would have liked for us to go in 1 or 2 points down at halftime but not 3 and then 4. I also agree that inability to score and poor decision making cost us but panic had set in meaning that things were rushed.
Mc Fadden is playing because of previous exploits and that our panel is very bare not on much else. How you an say that McLoon is becoming an Andy Reid type is beyond me? If he is good enough and is showing it in training he should start.
Another aspect of our play that worries me is our fitness levels/energy. I had heard that part of the falling out between McGuinness and Gallagher was over McGuinness's arduous training schedule. Are they fit enough to play their particular brand of football? Or is it miles on the clock, not enough in the tank? Only those on the inside will know.

ok well its not my recollection that our tactics in most games is to push up and pressurise the opposition from the front- I thought we were more of a counter attacking team. You mention the game against Mayo- my memory is of both of those goals starting inside our 13m line, one with Eamonn mcgee winning possession and the 2nd with a free kick and Michael Murphy taking possession on his own 20m line. Maybe my memory is wrong though.
Fair enough if you don't agree with the tactics but I didn't hear too many peole complaining when (imo) the same tactics were winning games.

WRT Leo weve all had our say. Time will tell.

babybuilder · 21-07-2015 11:11PM

"We know that in the majority of games that has been our approach!

Sorry but I meant that was agreeing with you about the counterattacking approach.

eddie73 · 22-07-2015 09:53AM

Tactics are fine when they work and when the players have the fitness and appetite to follow through with them.

On sunday, we didnt have the fitness, nor the mental edge to do it. We either trained too hard, too often, or took our eye off the ball in the monaghan game. I am not being disingenuous about monaghans success or anything like, but they are not an exceptionally good team, and they certainly were not in the second half on sunday. If we were about ourselves at all we would have beaten them similarly to the previous year. (not 2012, as we have not played with the same consistency since then).

I really hope we can salvage a season by beating galway, and at least giving mayo a good game.

harpsman · 22-07-2015 06:01PM

babybuilder wrote: »

"We know that in the majority of games that has been our approach!

Sorry but I meant that was agreeing with you about the counterattacking approach.

Ahh. Fair enough. Like yourself I would not necessarily have agreed with alot of our tactics and team selections over the years but its hard to argue with the results.
Personally Id really like to see Murphy play at centre forward

2moreMinutes · 23-07-2015 03:53PM

An 'interesting' story currently doing the rounds on the (normally reliable) local GAA grapevine.
Unfortunately, as it involves the toxic mixture of notions above your station, drinking, poor training, heated team meetings, bad blood amongst teammates and a reluctance to upset your 'wee' friend, it all reminds me of the dark days of years gone by......

harpsman · 23-07-2015 04:09PM

Yes the "normally reliable gaa grapevine":D:D:D

Ceist_Beag · 23-07-2015 04:10PM

Is this all in relation to the same player or does it spread a bit deeper than that? .. my thought process being

notions above your station - I think I know of one player who fits this bill
drinking - I think I know of one player who fits this bill (and it ain't Eamonn!)
poor training - I think I know of one player who fits this bill
heated team meetings, bad blood amongst teammates
a reluctance to upset your 'wee' friend - I think I know of two players who fit this bill and one of these doesn't fit the above descriptions!

Funny how these rumours always come out after a defeat!

jjdonegal · 23-07-2015 04:37PM

A certain player had 1 pint with food in a local hotel a few days after the Derry game. He was speaking to my father as the family are neighbours and said person went home after this.
Funnily enough I was speaking to a fellow supporter last Thursday who told me that this player was hitting the drink hard. Absolute tripe. Whether it is right or wrong to have 1 pint is not my place to judge but absolute bullcrap rumours that are lies do my head in. Totally escalating the situation from what actually happened to what sounds like a better story.
As someone said this crap always comes out after a defeat.
Onwards and upwards and get behind this magnificent team for the Galway game is my viewpoint.

Donegal GAA Discussion Thread

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