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€12,000 Reward for driving someone elses car with no tax or NCT and resisting arrest.

245

Comments

  • #32
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    In fairness if 2 male Gardaí can't arrest a woman without the use of pepper spray there's something wrong. There trained better than that. It was OTT.
    You don't give women enough credit. Like any man, a woman losing the plot physically can be very difficult to restrain. And like this case shows, the courts are horrifically sexist, so any injury to a woman in the course of arrest and the Gardai will be in big trouble.

    Trying to restrain someone who is physically resisting carries a pretty high chance of injuring them. Pepper spray is pretty effective at disabling sober people without causing any physical injury or long term effects. A broken arm or nose, or rotator cuff injury in the course of arrest, by contrast is a much longer-lasting trauma.

    As said, would the judge have preferred that they took out their batons and smacked her around the arms and legs? Or threw her onto the ground and kneeled on her back?


  • #33
    Riskymove
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,903 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Should the DPP appeal this judgement ?

    I don't think the DPP has a role here as it is a civil case not a criminal one

    I think the State should certainly appeal the judgment as the idea that a non-lethal tool is to be deemed a "last resort" makes it pretty pointless as a tool. When can they use it? when threatened with guns?


  • #34
    lanos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭lanos


    i would suggest in future that the Guards spend more time harassing known criminals and
    junkies plaguing the capital streets instead of assaulting normal citizens with no criminal past.
    i want to refer to the case of the tourist that was attacked with a bottle in dublin city centre.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/tourist-attacked-with-bottle-just-after-arriving-in-country-31391460.html

    but i suspect the Guards would say Fcuk that, i'm not tangling with that mad ba*tard
    drive on, lets nick a few motorists


  • #35
    tradhead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 369 ✭✭tradhead


    I don't get this- was she not even done for having no tax and NCT on the car?? If not, sure why would anyone surrender their car if stopped and everything wasn't in order?

    Kick up a big fuss, abuse the guards as much as you want until you get pepper sprayed or otherwise "assaulted", and then get a nice big payoff with absolutely no consequences (apart from a "panic attack" and a rash). :rolleyes:


  • #36
    CH3OH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,221 ✭✭✭CH3OH


    Could this be the same judge that was convicted of failing to provide a sample to a Garda in 2012?
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/judge-fined-for-failing-to-give-sample-26880639.html

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056713190

    If it is the same judge, should he even have been on the bench for this case?


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  • #37
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    lanos wrote: »
    i would suggest in future that the Guards spend more time harassing known criminals and
    junkies plaguing the capital streets instead of assaulting normal citizens with no criminal past.
    i want to refer to the case of the tourist that was attacked with a bottle in dublin city centre.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/tourist-attacked-with-bottle-just-after-arriving-in-country-31391460.html

    but i suspect the Guards would say Fcuk that, i'm not tangling with that mad ba*tard
    drive on, lets nick a few motorists

    Last week there were three Gardaí from Ronanstown station hospitalised after being attacked in a house. I challenge you to find a single reference to it in the news.


  • #38
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,004 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    What if she'd run over an innocent child due to an unsafe car and her being uninsured meant there was no insurance company to cover that child's medical bills?

    Would she be a criminal then Ianos? Or is she allowed to ignore the laws the rest of us have to follow and to assault those we as a society have hired to enforce those laws (for the protection of that hypothetical child, or indeed ourselves) because she happens to have given birth at some point in the past?

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  • #39
    Streetwalker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    Way over the top from the Gardaí and then they wonder why they have no respect in a lot of our communities.


  • #40
    Neyite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,946 ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Her gender, and the gender of the Gardai should never come into it. If she was abusive and attempted to physically assault a Garda who is just doing the job that we as tax payers trust them to do then she deserved to get charged for that.

    It's pretty clear that they were between a rock and a hard place. It sounds like if they had used physical restraint on her, that she would have sued them anyway for them putting their male hands on her female body, judging by the inference where she talks about the garda put her seat belt on for her.

    If anything, she should be made to pay €12,000 into the court poor box or Garda benevolent fund for failing to obey the law on:
    • Driving without a tax disc
    • Driving without an NCT
    • Failing to obey Garda instruction
    • Verbally abusing Gardai
    • Failing to put on a seat belt when instructed
    • Attempting to assault a member of An Garda Siochana
    • Resisting arrest
    How the fcuk can we expect Gardai to do their jobs when people get rewarded for failing to obey basic Garda instruction?


  • #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 53,068 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mod

    I've just updated the title, as there is no reference to her not having insurance anywhere in the article.


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  • #42
    Starokan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 746 ✭✭✭Starokan


    Streetwalker wrote: »
    Way over the top from the Gardaí and then they wonder why they have no respect in a lot of our communities.

    I doubt that cases like this are the reasons the gardai do not have respect in a lot of our communities.

    I suspect the lack of respect is due to the fact that the members of said communities have absolutely no regard for the law and are inclined to rebel against the gardai tasked with administering it.

    Why have they no regard for the law?, because more often than not they are breaking it.

    Gardai are not infallible, they make mistakes, this for me however does not appear to be one of them


  • #43
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Streetwalker wrote: »
    Way over the top from the Gardaí and then they wonder why they have no respect in a lot of our communities.
    Enlighten us then with what the Gardai should have done in this scenario based on your detailed analysis and CCTV footage.


  • #44
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,867 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Streetwalker wrote: »
    Way over the top from the Gardaí and then they wonder why they have no respect in a lot of our communities.


    I have seen Gardai go overboard in the past but this doesn't seem like one of those occasions.

    What were they supposed to do, just let her assault them and resist arrest?

    I think they were right to use pepper spray if she was attempting to assault them.


  • #45
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,938 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    If a person with no Insurance driving a car with no NCT is allowed drive on our roads and causes a serious accident then the Gards would come in for some more harsh criticism!
    After all, this is part of the job they are paid to do!


  • #46
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,004 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Mod

    I've just updated the title, as there is no reference to her not having insurance anywhere in the article.
    If she had insurance the lack of a valid NCT would invalidate the policy so, whether she'd paid for it or not, she was uninsured.

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  • #47
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    Sleepy wrote: »
    Is the judge so thick that he can't recognise what every little scrote in the country who hears about this case will cop to?.

    Won't work for them though


  • #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 53,068 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sleepy wrote: »
    If she had insurance the lack of a valid NCT would invalidate the policy so, whether she'd paid for it or not, she was uninsured.

    Actually, that's inaccurate. Her policy would have reverted to third party cover only, and her insurance company could have chased her for any costs if they saw fit.

    The third party would still have been entitled to claim from her insurance.

    Do not question mod notes on thread again, it's against the charter. PM a mod for any queries.


  • #49
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Sleepy wrote: »
    If she had insurance the lack of a valid NCT would invalidate the policy so, whether she'd paid for it or not, she was uninsured.

    Nonsense.


  • #50
    Dionysius2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 343 ✭✭Dionysius2


    dissed doc wrote: »
    No a man would not, but the judges are directed by the politicians. Let us see a man driving a car without tax or insurance, resist arrest, be abusive to the Gardai and get free 12 grand!

    Female privilege is what it is called.

    A seasoned veteran of the law & order brigade told me recently that 'tarts in cars' are impossible to deal with to a conclusion intended by the law. Everything is someone else's problem, defects and certification deficiencies will be brushed aside as caused by another and ownership of the car is always an issue.
    Lots of the tricks and strategies are quite clever. The veteran blue told be that many of the motorised element of a certain stream in society bring either a car load of unruly kids or vicious dogs on their road trips because the police are reluctant to engage in such obviously messy situations.


  • #51
    lanos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭lanos


    Sleepy wrote: »
    What if she'd run over an innocent child due to an unsafe car and her being uninsured meant there was no insurance company to cover that child's medical bills?


    obviously unsafe or just without a current NCT cert ?
    there is a difference

    i think we all know that the NCT system is corrupt.
    there are cars on the road that would have failed if a regular motorist puts them through but a dealer can get them passed no problem.

    obviously i dont include faulty brakes and bald tyres or other major defects
    but defects such as emissions, rust etc would be overlooked with a nod and a wink when a dealer in-the-know brings a car for testing.

    and when the NCT was first introduced, you could not tax a vehicle without a valid NCT cert but that was changed when motor tax revenue dropped off.
    Therefore
    Tax revenue = important
    Car roadworthiness = not really important

    and it would even be terrible if she had run over a Guilty child :P


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  • #52
    lanos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭lanos


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    Last week there were three Gardaí from Ronanstown station hospitalised after being attacked in a house. I challenge you to find a single reference to it in the news.

    and guess what, last week i implemented a complex database solution that benefitted hundreds of users - in other words, i did my job.
    and i didn't assault anybody in the process

    Guards earn the same as nurses and teachers and don't need to spend a difficult 4 years in university.

    they get the good wages because they take a few calculated risks

    it does not give them the right to assault taxpayers


  • #53
    tradhead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 369 ✭✭tradhead


    lanos wrote: »

    it does not give them the right to assault taxpayers

    She wasn't assaulted!

    She broke the law, resisted arrest and was abusive so they used pepper spray, which they are given specifically for situations such as this. How else were they supposed to subdue her?

    Edit: And she broke the law by not paying tax, so not exactly a taxpayer either :pac:


  • #54
    MrMorooka
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 710 ✭✭✭MrMorooka


    lanos wrote: »
    it does not give them the right to assault taxpayers

    Is using pepper spray on someone resisting arrest assault?


  • #55
    davetherave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭davetherave


    lanos wrote: »
    Guards earn the same as nurses and teachers and don't need to spend a difficult 4 years in university.

    they get the good wages because they take a few calculated risks

    it does not give them the right to assault taxpayers

    So why should civies have the right to assault them?


  • #56
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 25,004 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    Nonsense.
    It was certainly stipulated in the policy I bought two weeks ago that an invalid NCT voided my contract. Might be different for other insurers.
    lanos wrote: »
    obviously unsafe or just without a current NCT cert ?
    there is a difference
    There can be but the NCT can certainly identify problems that Joe Q Public would miss.
    i think we all know that the NCT system is corrupt.
    there are cars on the road that would have failed if a regular motorist puts them through but a dealer can get them passed no problem.

    obviously i dont include faulty brakes and bald tyres or other major defects
    but defects such as emissions, rust etc would be overlooked with a nod and a wink when a dealer in-the-know brings a car for testing.
    Do we? Sounds fairly tinfoil hat / sour grapes to me tbh. Got any proof of this? If so, I'm sure the RSA, Department of Transport and Gardaí would be interested.
    and when the NCT was first introduced, you could not tax a vehicle without a valid NCT cert but that was changed when motor tax revenue dropped off.
    Therefore
    Tax revenue = important
    Car roadworthiness = not really important
    I think it was more to do with making it overly complicated to get a car on the road, as it stands you can't can't Tax a car without Insurance and since you have to have the car NCT'd to get Insurance (though there seems to be debate on this, as I said, I needed to tick a box to state my car was NCT'd in order to insure it only two weeks ago).

    Don't get me wrong, I could criticise the NCT for a lot of things: I'd like to see much stringent testing done to ensure that cars with a valid NCT have all required servicing carried out (timing belts etc.) as it would encourage a culture of actually maintaining cars rather than scrapping them every 10 years. SIMI wouldn't like that though ;)

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  • #57
    lanos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭lanos


    Sleepy wrote: »

    Got any proof of this? If so, I'm sure the RSA, Department of Transport and Gardaí would be interested.



    i think the Guards are only interested in targeting individual motorists and hopefully getting a chance to use that
    shiny can of pepper spray before the can reaches its expiry date... sure that would be a waste
    Sleepy wrote: »
    I think it was more to do with making it overly complicated to get a car on the road, as it stands you can't can't Tax a car without Insurance and since you have to have the car NCT'd to get Insurance (though there seems to be debate on this, as I said, I needed to tick a box to state my car was NCT'd in order to insure it only two weeks ago).

    incorrect, you can get an insurance cert without having an NCT Cert


  • #58
    nxbyveromdwjpg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭nxbyveromdwjpg


    davetherave wrote: »
    So why should civies have the right to assault them?

    They don't have the right. That's why they get arrested.


  • #59
    astrofool
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,072 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    The sad thing is that the Judiciary in this country is so up it's own ar*se that even the troika gave up trying to get them to reform and quietly dropped the issue.

    The judiciary is a joke whose sole purpose is to extract as much wealth from the people of Ireland as possible, justice is an after thought.


  • #60
    lanos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 600 ✭✭✭lanos


    davetherave wrote: »
    So why should civies have the right to assault them?

    Nobody has the right to assault anybody
    however gardai love a bit of agro

    its part of the job

    now obviously i'm not saying they want to get hit with a bottle or slashed with a knife but they accepted that this is an occupational hazard when they joined the force.

    and lets face it, they didn't need to be clever enough to get into college so the odd bit of abuse they sometimes receive from the scumbags is a small price to pay for the job security they have....and they know it.


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  • #61
    Tombi!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,689 ✭✭✭Tombi!


    mod: lanos, don't post in the thread again


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