€12,000 Reward for driving someone elses car with no tax or NCT and resisting arrest.

Greenmachine · 20-07-2015 05:31PM #1

.arrest
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/very-abusive-mother-32-pepper-sprayed-by-garda-during-arrest-awarded-12k-31389894.html

No fatal weapon, used when someone was aggressively resisting arrest. The most she should get is an apology, if it was deemed excessive. Zero lasting damage, and the defamation of character claim is ridiculous.

TallGlass · 20-07-2015 05:48PM

Greenmachine wrote: »

.arrest
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/very-abusive-mother-32-pepper-sprayed-by-garda-during-arrest-awarded-12k-31389894.html

No fatal weapon, used when someone was aggressively resisting arrest. The most she should get is an apology, if it was deemed excessive. Zero lasting damage, and the defamation of character claim is ridiculous.

Dose the judge know what pepper spray is for? It's a last resort so nobody gets physically hurt if resisting arrest.“the use of pepper spray should only be used as a very last resort.”

Would he rather the Garda give her a belt of the batton?

dickwod1 · 20-07-2015 05:49PM

Just the normal from the judges/courts these days.

whiskeyman · 20-07-2015 05:49PM

Why did they want to arrest her?
Details are a bit sketchy there.
the 2 guards should have been able to subdue her if required.
Just take the car keys off her and leave them there.
More details here
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/mother-claims-she-was-pepper-sprayed-by-garda%C3%AD-court-hears-1.2216781.

Seems a right result to be fair.
There was no need to use it.

Overheal · 20-07-2015 05:50PM

Don't see how you're surprised, you can run over a child on an irish road and walk away free.

jamesbere · 20-07-2015 05:50PM

TallGlass wrote: »

Dose the judge know what pepper spray is for? It's a last resort so nobody gets physically hurt if resisting arrest.“the use of pepper spray should only be used as a very last resort.”

Would he rather the Garda give her a belt of the batton?

Go old school, bring back the wooden spoon

Fr_Dougal · 20-07-2015 06:17PM

Hmmm...I wonder is she a full time mad bastard....

Little CuChulainn · 20-07-2015 07:04PM

This is typical of what is going on in AGS at the moment. Do everything exactly according to the law, policy and training and you are still in the wrong.

thebaz · 20-07-2015 07:07PM

Overheal wrote: »

Don't see how you're surprised, you can run over a child on an irish road and walk away free.

Judges are so out of touch with the reality of modern life - then again real modern life is not much in abundance on Ailesbury or Shrewsbury road and the like , where most of our reverend judiciary live

Riamfada · 20-07-2015 07:11PM

They dont specify that the itchy rash she was suffering from wasnt a pre-existing condition. By the looks of her Id say it was.

Guy:Incognito · 20-07-2015 07:18PM

whiskeyman wrote: »

Why did they want to arrest her?
Details are a bit sketchy there.
the 2 guards should have been able to subdue her if required.
Just take the car keys off her and leave them there.
More details here
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/mother-claims-she-was-pepper-sprayed-by-garda%C3%AD-court-hears-1.2216781.

Seems a right result to be fair.
There was no need to use it.

TBH, from that it seems like she was trying the old "this is a peaceful protest" while not doing as shes told.

They took the keys, exactly how long should they stand there while she makes her phone calls and gets he hole out of the car?

Clearly acting the bollocks

twowheelsonly · 20-07-2015 07:23PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

This is typical of what is going on in AGS at the moment. Do everything exactly according to the law, policy and training and you are still in the wrong.

This is why we need Judges to take note of the American Graham v. Connor case law.

http://www.policemag.com/channel/patrol/articles/2014/10/understanding-graham-v-connor.aspx

Long enough article but what it basically says is that incidents such as these should be taken from the point of view of 'real-time' and not from the cold light of day when it's easy to analyse and cast judgement., i.e. Was it a reasonable reaction from the cop at the time given the circumstances and the split second that he had to make a decision, would another cop have made the same decision or have been likely to.

In this case what the law is saying is that he was wrong but from the details given I wouldn't agree.
She seems to make a bit of a deal out of saying that he shouted 'spray' 3 times. IMO that's a warning and you should stop what you're doing which I think is a reasonable assumption.

Guy:Incognito · 20-07-2015 07:28PM

twowheelsonly wrote: »

She seems to make a bit of a deal out of saying that he shouted 'spray' 3 times. IMO that's a warning and you should stop what you're doing which I think is a reasonable assumption.

She went for the sympathy angle alright. Talking about panic attacks and being scare to be in the car with 2 male Gardai.

Would a man be entertained making the same play for sympathy?

dissed doc · 20-07-2015 07:31PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

She went for the sympathy angle alright. Talking about panic attacks and being scare to be in the car with 2 male Gardai.

Would a man be entertained making the same play for sympathy?

No a man would not, but the judges are directed by the politicians. Let us see a man driving a car without tax or insurance, resist arrest, be abusive to the Gardai and get free 12 grand!

Female privilege is what it is called.

AlekSmart · 20-07-2015 10:12PM

Should the DPP appeal this judgement ?

Little CuChulainn · 20-07-2015 10:42PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

Should the DPP appeal this judgement ?

Yes. The consequences will be quite widespread throughout the force. Pepper spray cannot be used without risk of a law suit even if you do it by the book.

AudreyHepburn · 20-07-2015 11:35PM

whiskeyman wrote: »

Why did they want to arrest her?
Details are a bit sketchy there.
the 2 guards should have been able to subdue her if required.
Just take the car keys off her and leave them there.
More details here
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/mother-claims-she-was-pepper-sprayed-by-garda%C3%AD-court-hears-1.2216781.

Seems a right result to be fair.
There was no need to use it.

It's not remotely sketchy tbh....the Gardai were absolutely entitled to seize the car, it was uninsured, the NCT was out and it was not hers in the first place.

Were they meant to just stand there when she became abusive and aggressive? Should they have walked away when she resisted aresst?

I really hate 'Compo Culture' - this case should never have gone to court.

Eugene Norman · 20-07-2015 11:40PM

How did they possibly defame her?

Gulliver · 20-07-2015 11:49PM

What episode of Fair City was this in? The writing is getting really unrealistic these days. Like that would ever happen in real life. Next you'll be telling me men are scared of Gardai too.

drunkmonkey · 21-07-2015 12:14AM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Yes. The consequences will be quite widespread throughout the force. Pepper spray cannot be used without risk of a law suit even if you do it by the book.

In fairness if 2 male Gardaí can't arrest a woman without the use of pepper spray there's something wrong. There trained better than that. It was OTT.

Capt'n Midnight · 21-07-2015 12:16AM

How was she insured on a car that was new to her but didn't have an NCT or tax ?

NachoBusiness · 21-07-2015 12:24AM

Riamfada wrote: »

They dont specify that the itchy rash she was suffering from wasnt a pre-existing condition. By the looks of her Id say it was.

You know little about her. Certainly not enough to excuse such a needless sneer.

drunkmonkey wrote: »

In fairness if 2 male Gardaí can't arrest a woman without the use of pepper spray there's something wrong. There trained better than that. It was OTT.

Spot on. A sober woman in broad daylight too. They're pepper spray happy these days.

Seen a chap in Temple Bar get pepper sprayed by two ban Gardai a few weeks back and there wasn't a bit of need for it either.

joe swanson · 21-07-2015 12:31AM

So it seems u can drive round, shout , roar and attempt to assault a Garda and walk away with 12k.

Those guards should have a lengthy meeting with a solicitor and consider their own options within the law.

Nonoperational · 21-07-2015 12:41AM

Drive around in an untaxed car with non NCT. Sur it's grand, I bought it from my brother. I wonder how long it was untaxed and had no NCT before that.

An absolutely disgusting judgement, a perfectly legitimate reason to stop someone and question them, person gets hysterical and you can do absolutely nothing about it. Pepper spray more people who dodge tax and NCT in my book. Sickening the way society has gone these days.

drunkmonkey · 21-07-2015 12:42AM

joe swanson wrote: »

Those guards should have a lengthy meeting with a solicitor and consider their own options within the law.

Or back to Templemore for 2 weeks to complete their how to handle women diploma.

AudreyHepburn · 21-07-2015 08:42AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Or back to Templemore for 2 weeks to complete their how to handle women diploma.

Rubbish tbh.

Gender should never be the defining factor in how the Gardai treat criminals.

This woman broke the law, resisted arrest and became violent and abusive....why should she be handled with kid gloves?

BattleCorp · 21-07-2015 09:23AM

Breaking the law. Resisting arrest. Trying to assault two Gardai.

I'll say that again. Trying to assault two Gardai.

She's lucky that she didn't get a belt of the baton.

Crazy decision.

hairycakes · 21-07-2015 09:28AM

Ridiculous judgement imo. She broke the law, resisted arrest and was handed money for it. It makes me sick. If the pepper spray wasn't used and the two males guards physically restrained her, that would be wrong too for some. She would probably get a nice lump sum for that too. All that is saying to criminals is act up and force guards to use the full extent of their arsenal (which isn't much) and they'll get a nice little compo settlement. The message that should be portrayed is do not resist arrest because you will be dealt with harsher.

Starokan · 21-07-2015 09:34AM

Yet another mind boggling decision by our courts, the judge states that he had no doubt she had been abusive and had tried to hit the gardai yet he awards her 12k. Typifies what is wrong with our system, the gardai follow procedure and do everything right yet get slammed for it.

Joke of a verdict

Little CuChulainn · 21-07-2015 09:34AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

In fairness if 2 male Gardaí can't arrest a woman without the use of pepper spray there's something wrong. There trained better than that. It was OTT.

The idea of pepper spray is to reduce the need for physical force and, in turn, the risk of injury. Yes two male Gardaí could have used physical force to restrain her but they would have had to be rough with her. Pepper spray almost completely eliminates resistance and does not cause injury allowing for an easier and safer arrest. It is not a last resort, the baton is.

Sleepy · 21-07-2015 09:42AM

No wonder young fellas have no fear of the Gardaí any more.

Is the judge so thick that he can't recognise what every little scrote in the country who hears about this case will cop to? If you're being arrested, it's worth 12k if you resist arrest and the Garda uses pepper spray on you. Now, I've never been pepper sprayed and I can't imagine it's pleasant but I think I'd be happy enough to suffer the couple of hours of discomfort for a tax free sum that's the equivalent of earning an extra 25k a year.

This ruling incentivises people to resist arrest.

€12,000 Reward for driving someone elses car with no tax or NCT and resisting arrest.

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