Cork GAA Discussion Thread

Gary Neville · 19-07-2015 06:30AM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

You will hopefully learn one swallow doesn't make a summer
This isn't by the way a told you so merely point out before you say I'm loosing the plot again with respect hopefully you won't get that confused with realism

I point this out now as you probably will have view cork still in good place after tonight management learned and cadogan was huge loss as was weather you will probably blame
It's just it's predicable what your view is now

Cadogan no real loss in great player but as I said prior to throw in he's replaced by sullivan at full back and like for like and sullivan was outstanding and held Donaghey so cadogan would best just done that no extra bonus to cork
Sullivan is excellent but isn't half back but have no doubt cads back him sullivan play half back and sullivan as proven before at half back as no pace that role and cads if there centre back too attack minded

You said here clear signs cork management had learned
No they did not as if they did wouldn't started same team bar sullivan v kerry, prevailed running game when everyone knew it was going to rain and again like ist day slow make changes as seen by kerry two changes before cork made one and then gould brought on when deane or colm Driscoll would been ideal come on

You said here you think we have no chance v Dublin and we need luck

Will you change this view when we beat Kildare in to Dublin to we can actually beat them?
You probably will and fair enough that's your opinion if so

Is admire your enthusiasm and optimistic views I once like that but Cork football thought me be realistic and Cork haven't a hope v Dublin who won't be naive like last year as Gavin admitted made mistakes then, Dublin beat defence country and Cork can't score with just three points from play

Kerry conceded seven goal three games gave cork hope
Dublin will at best if even conceded just one goal
Just six points conceded last week
Fair play westmeath got same cork tonight six points against Dublin last week with no where near forwards we have against much better defence than kerry
Yes cork got goal

Midfield is like kerry there good and sullivan pace cause o Connor problem

Cork defence worst out top four teams in country and conceded huge amounts in challenges championship and league since implementation this myth of so called blanket defence last July v sligo

Dublin attack with flynn and Kilkenny tracking cork all out half back attack will counter at pace and with rock free taker real quality connolly brogan mceonmsn they will with Kilkenny and flynn also scoring threats get high score v Cork and Cork won't be able to match that

Due to basket ball coach mark ingle Dublin defend space in zonal area rather than man mark and know too well Cork all year can't score long distance so they will actually leave cork go deep for the ball while they always protecting the d zone and unlike kerry poor defence cork face best defence in the country and imo a ruthless Dublin will beat Cork hugely

Cork have problems but Kildare are truly awful with greatest respect to them and while cork at worst could struggle they will beat Kildare but not a chance imo Dublin will loose to anyone bar kerry or Donegal if even that

Cork imo contrary your views would not beat Donegal and I think Galway excellent Walsh manager would beat Cork
You need to acknowledge that our management team have not made much improvement this year bar the excellent Flanagan lot same old problem remain and kerry ist day imo like I said were complacent by picking weaker team and also warm weather camp month before cork way off training

Fitzmaurice said it tonight kerry trained hard the last two weeks
And kerry weren't complacent and always control winning this game even if Cronin got goal kerry would came back again

So far we had league thank fully we stayed up but lot close wins and false dawns poor game v clare and draw moral victory kerry but tonight another poor performance so all in all marginal improvement from Cork but with a very talented panel imo under performing and a lot is down to management imo

Your reaction is bordering on hysterical.

People need to be realistic about Cork Football - We are primarily focused on Hurling and our CB has little or no interest in Football. Frank Murphy picked a manager on the basis that he would allow dualism and as a consequence of this we lost Cahalane and A Walsh. We also lost C SHeehan to AFL - Sheehan and AW were the 'stand-out' players in our excellent 2011 U21 side. We went to Killarney, a 'fortress' venue of the AI champions where 50/50 decisions go with the home side - we were without Maguire, Cadogan, Clancy & O Rourke, in addition to the 3 unavailable. Imagine the side we'd have with these 7 playing ?

The conditions made this game a lottery and we could not run at the Kerry team effectively - this removed our biggest advantage and masked their biggest weakness but if Cronin's fantastic effort went in - then Kerry would have had to come at us - instead they got a fortunate goal and could sit back and suck us in knowing that they had a huge lead with the conditions.

We should regroup and a good performance v Kildare will allow us face Dublin in a decent frame of mind.

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-07-2015 08:55AM

Gary your views purely posting wise are so far off the mark in you run with the hair so many times chase with the hound it's not even funny and you can't very well back track now much when In your words you thought cork turned a corner beat Donegal and other teams bar Dublin

I'll make this as simplcan for you
Let's look at the facts
Tour talking absoultey waffle with respect
Sheehan is gone and has been for two years we knew that and can't blame this on him
Christ next up you will lament if we had Tompkins etc younger

Walsh left hurling as no faith in football management and you probably don't know this but Walsh actually football ability kick passing wise was awful in could been great but he needed coaching to improve
Enlighten me who will coach him like o Neill with kerry

Cahalane wasn't rated by this set up and probably be corner back and wouldn't got games and he didn't rate this management either and left the panel correctly so
Have you actually watched any thing in the last year cork football in when fit on rourke struggled get game
Management didn't rate him above others so if even he started probably been ahead donnacha or Collins so wouldn't strength team in should replacing some one else

Clancy let's refresh your memory you said yes you admitted many times here clancy is not rated by this management and clancy wouldn't imo start so if so who half back line would he dropped
As proven this management can't see game in merit and Barry driscoll never going be dropped after the last game

Ian maguire would been good but kerry would negated him
Your again wrong with cadogan in sullivan destroyed Donaghey and he was taken off so cadogan loss was not felt

Your need with respect need to see what's glaring any astute gaa fan from a distance
You blame the weather for this
Are you having a laugh, in essence what your saying is Cork are only a dry weather team and once it rains we can't win
Christ above that's not on in elite sport
We can't control the weather so we adapt to it
Donegal always play well in wet weather and their game is running but you see they have forward line that with mcgugh and mac breaty actually can kick pass and run something cork dont in cork instinct is to run and when faced by a blanket defence it then goes back to slow laboured hand passing like couninhan times

Facts are since cuthbhertt took over we go from all out attack to defence with no success in three points from play and no with weather
Again like all league and challenges matches v armagh mayo Dublin and Galway we conceded huge huge scores
Clare and the drawn game was the same
Can you please explain to me what you think of our blanket defence?

We never attack with cohesion or guile and again you blatantly ignore key points like ist day cork outscored in just goal two points play ist half last day to last twenty minutes then no score from play to around fifteen minutes yesterday again no score to just six points from all game
Only hope cork getting goals keep them in games but kerry conceded seven in three were playing Dublin who will if even that just conceding one goal
Where will the point come from so

Use of subs again was appalling in were down there by three points and no sub yet kerry make one after twenty minutes
Kerry had two when we had no subs
Dorman style wasn't needed for this game, colm Driscoll should been brought on allow Collins move up but this clueless management purely football sense can't see that

You must realise like I said the last day cork got kerry cold in we had one huge backs to the wall performance, kerry were naive and complacent and just month back from training camp and yesterday were fitter hungrier and four key changes that all made difference showed ist game was a false dawns for Cork
Kerry improved from that game Cork did not

That's cork performance gone now
Dublin aren't naive and so ruthless they have pace push up cork short kick out with faster half forward line track cork running half back line with Kilkenny and flynn who will easily counter attack Cork as out unit is too attack minded
Dublin will blow this cork team away
Fair enough you will the next two weeks when we beat awful Kildare try convince change happened, we learned etc etc you will do what you do in you will not realise opponents were playing are poor so you fail realise Dublin are impossible this cork team beat as you fail to understand how far off them in coaching, defence, attack midfield and management and tactic plans we are and Dublin if needs be will be ruthless make changes while out crowd do what they do best wait fifty minutes on average in each game to make changes and even then take off out great warrior donnacha Connor incorrectly

And ken Halloran who you much maligned kicking proved you like I told you is brilliant kicker and problem isn't he's kick outs it's midfield
Now in essence my views are not hysterical but actually backed up with logic and realism that with the greatest respect unfortunately your views are not and have views regarding Dublin even the most optimist cork fan imo would find it hard to agree with

Your making out kerry were lucky as sad it is for me say but facts are better team won and kerry were always control game such cork never took the lead

Kerry Goal was not fluke but we'll created
Don't talk usual nonsense were hurling county no right expect beat kerry
Nothing to do with it in if we good manager we would beat kerry regularly

kmc25_1 · 19-07-2015 09:06AM

I think I may be completely biased in favour of Cork.

My view of that match was that the ref robbed us all night long. It seems no one on here shares the view.

From the joke of a free that gave them the lead back after the goal, to letting the Kerry players pull and drag the man with the ball. This to me was why the running game was not working. Every time a Kerry man fell it was a free. Aidan o Mahoney slips with no one touching him slides in to a cork player free to Kerry. O Driscoll surrounded by three Kerry players goes down with one of them having his arms wrapped around him: Free for overcarrying. The very next play Moran takes on Alan o Connor and throws himself to the ground: Free to Kerry. The goal! The only thing he didn't do was kick it in himself. There was no free. He got the smallest bump after kicking the ball. Where was the free taken from. It's supposed to be from where the ball lands. Didn't look like that to me. The ref was happy out though. As his team were happy. The advantage rule seemed to go against Cork all night. He did give Cork advantages when support runners were taken out but never went back and took action against the Kerry lads.
Conor McCarthy had a piece on the examiner on how Kerry influence officials. At the end of it he states that Maurice deegan might not be as easily influenced. Wishful thinking.

On a lighter note Marty Duffy is back from injury. I thought they had quietly retired him after his one sided reffing of the 2009 final. Now that he's back to fitness they are giving him the first available Cork match which is the game against Kildare.

DD Mikasa · 19-07-2015 09:34AM

Aye, the ref rode Cork when the game was in the melting pot. IT always looks like sour grapes when you say it though.

Aidan O'Mahony should have been black carded early on and the ref bottled it. Bryan Sheehan had two yellow card offences before he actually got carded. On two occasions Cork players were picking up the ball when Kerry lads just drove a kick at the prone player. No free either time and I think two points came from them. He also gave them two or three soft frees for off the ball stuff straight in front of goals (which Kerry never get pulled for, remember Moynihan spending 70 minutes hugging Corkery in Croke Park one year), which ensured Kerry never lost too much momentum when they were struggling.

There are other bizarre calls as well, but ultimately just way too many 50/50 calls went Kerry's way for it to be overlooked. As bad and all Cork were in the second half it DOES effect the game as it would have meant Cork were 3/4 up when Kerry got the lucky goal and it would not have been the killer blow that it proved to be.

In saying that Cork just reverted to type in second half. Build up play was just too slow. Cork players were trying to go thru the Kerry half forward line in their own half back line, and by the time they made it as far as the half forward line they were still facing the Kerry half forward line, as the build up play was so slow Kerry were able to funnel back.

In the first half Cork were switching play with quick diagonal kick passing across the pitch and it helped break through the Kerry defensive cover. In this first half Cork were moving it at pace. This stopped completely in second half.

As for Alan O'Connor. How did Cuthbert not know that AOC was not going to be targeted?

And as per every Cork v Kerry match in the past 20 years Cork just commit too many players forward, leave their full back line exposed and make it easy for the Kerry inside forwards to get into the type of space that O'Neill and Hurley never saw. It happens every bleedin time. Cork never learn. Look at the difference in the Cork hurlers since JBM has protected the full back line in the last two games. Cork footballers have to make themselves hard to beat. Current this is not the case.

btownboy · 19-07-2015 09:49AM

Excellent post DD Mikesa.

Gary Neville · 19-07-2015 10:48AM

DD Mikasa wrote: »

Aye, the ref rode Cork when the game was in the melting pot. IT always looks like sour grapes when you say it though.

Aidan O'Mahony should have been black carded early on and the ref bottled it. Bryan Sheehan had two yellow card offences before he actually got carded. On two occasions Cork players were picking up the ball when Kerry lads just drove a kick at the prone player. No free either time and I think two points came from them. He also gave them two or three soft frees for off the ball stuff straight in front of goals (which Kerry never get pulled for, remember Moynihan spending 70 minutes hugging Corkery in Croke Park one year), which ensured Kerry never lost too much momentum when they were struggling.

There are other bizarre calls as well, but ultimately just way too many 50/50 calls went Kerry's way for it to be overlooked. As bad and all Cork were in the second half it DOES effect the game as it would have meant Cork were 3/4 up when Kerry got the lucky goal and it would not have been the killer blow that it proved to be.

In saying that Cork just reverted to type in second half. Build up play was just too slow. Cork players were trying to go thru the Kerry half forward line in their own half back line, and by the time they made it as far as the half forward line they were still facing the Kerry half forward line, as the build up play was so slow Kerry were able to funnel back.

In the first half Cork were switching play with quick diagonal kick passing across the pitch and it helped break through the Kerry defensive cover. In this first half Cork were moving it at pace. This stopped completely in second half.

As for Alan O'Connor. How did Cuthbert not know that AOC was not going to be targeted?

And as per every Cork v Kerry match in the past 20 years Cork just commit too many players forward, leave their full back line exposed and make it easy for the Kerry inside forwards to get into the type of space that O'Neill and Hurley never saw. It happens every bleedin time. Cork never learn. Look at the difference in the Cork hurlers since JBM has protected the full back line in the last two games. Cork footballers have to make themselves hard to beat. Current this is not the case.

I don't have the match recorded but I'd be very interested to know if Kerry took the free leading to their goal, in the right place. If so, it would be the first time ever, that Cooper took a free from the correct position.

That free that Deegan awared to Donaghy in the 1st half was a disgrace and then he moved it right in front of the posts - Cork had possession and were attacking and Deegan just decided to give them a point - If the free was taken from the wrong position then that's the vital goal down to Deegan.

Sheehan engaged in cynical fouling all evening - one one occasion he caught BOD by the jersey and dragged him down - we got the free so Deegan saw the incident - how was that not deemed a black card ?

We've got to accept now that we will never get the decisions in Killarney and we need to be 6 pts better than them to win there.

In spite of TTM's ranting (with all due respect to him - as he says himself) The conditions favoured Kerry are our running HB line could not exert the same influence as the first day - any clown can see that you can't solo as effectively in those conditiions.

We just have to write this off and move on - hopefully the players will stay positive - I think they will get back on the rails v Kildare and maybe the 2 tough games in Killarney will help to prepare for Dublin.

We know what to expect v Dublin ( I know that Kildare could be dangerous especially if we take them lightly) and we can prepare accordingly. At tleast there is a realtionship between management and players now.

So we lost the Munster Title after some bad reffing and bad luck - big deal - we've got to take the tough route now but that didn't bother is in 2010.

sean mac · 19-07-2015 12:06PM

gary with all dues respect your delusional not ttm. Cork lost last night because when plan a didn't work, there was NO plan b, putting alan o connor in full forward was a total joke and showed a real lack of planning and ideas from the brainstrust imo. Bottom line we have been in 3 finals with this management and last nights 5 point loss was the best we have done, Kerry were so comfortable for the last 20 minutes it could have been a 20 point beating. Overall very disappointing, nothwithstanding the excellent loughrey, Cronin and a few others.
Kildare I understand have a big issue with their manager but will be up for this game and will have support with them, depending on how the next few days go will say a lot, however as for facing the dubs.........nightmare stuff altoghether for a team with an average midfield, static full forward line, weak bench and real lack of ideas on the line.
We used got to killareny and draw or at least only lose by 2/3 points, this was our worst result there since 2004? how the **** people are trying to make this out as positive I don't know, corks management have run their road, perhaps Kildare will spare us the ritual slaughter and embarrassment of what Dublin will do (remember gary, Dublin now have 2 full weeks to prepare for us)very disappointing performance, terrible lack of ideas from the line and really sad to see so many players who should be leaders like shileds, gould, goulding fade away to really average players at this level.
Finally its clear that brian hurley needs a break, what we could have given for a dan maceoin type target man last night.........who is coaching this team?

ShamoBuc · 19-07-2015 01:14PM

Looking back on it now, lots of things did not go in Corks favour. The weather. Yes it was the same for both teams but I think the running style especially our half backs, was hindered somewhat.
O'Connor getting booked early certainly had an effect. It was a soft yellow, especially considering what Sheehan was allowed to do before he eventually got booked. He never really got into the game as a result and was walking on egg shells everytime he tried to tackle.
50/50 decisions - I think Kerry certainly got more of these and in a tight game it does make a difference.
Tactics. Kerry won hands down. They made changes before the game and were quick to make the right ones during the game. Cork again had a plan A but as often in the past when we need to change it, we never ever seem to get it right. Aimless passing with no runners in support, bad high balls into O'Connor- its as if we Never practised lofting in a high ball into the square, shocking.

Second half performance was truly awful, just awful.

We didn't play as well as we could and while we only have a week to get over an energy sapping game, I expect us to beat Kildare. Kerry were very beatable last night, make no mistake about it, despite how we played we were still with them most of the game, a goal with 10 to go could have made it very interesting, but it would really only have helped to mask our deficiencies.
The set up is wrong. Cuthbert I am sure is trying his best but he is out of his depth. He always has been, he always will be. His backroom I don't think are the right people either. Maybe in 5 or so years with some more coaching etc experience they might be better suited. Cork need a proven manager. A manager that can get the best out of the players, that of course starts by playing them in their best positions. Tactics play a huge part of the modern game, changing them during a match can often decide the result. Kerry have had plenty of managers who can do this and Fitzmaurice is growing in ability all the time while Cuthbert simply does not have the know how unfortunately.

The better team won last night, no doubt about it. But we, yet again, did not help ourselves. Things did not go our way for sure but a good team plans for that and has options as a result.

I believe we have a good group of footballers who could be much better than their display last night. Some of them need guidance, some need to know what a plan b looks like, some of them need to play in a different position and finally some of them need a kick up the hole - all the above are a managers job.

zetecescort · 19-07-2015 01:33PM

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Looking back on it now, lots of things did not go in Corks favour. The weather. Yes it was the same for both teams but I think the running style especially our half backs, was hindered somewhat.
O'Connor getting booked early certainly had an effect. It was a soft yellow, especially considering what Sheehan was allowed to do before he eventually got booked. He never really got into the game as a result and was walking on egg shells everytime he tried to tackle.
50/50 decisions - I think Kerry certainly got more of these and in a tight game it does make a difference.
Tactics. Kerry won hands down. They made changes before the game and were quick to make the right ones during the game. Cork again had a plan A but as often in the past when we need to change it, we never ever seem to get it right. Aimless passing with no runners in support, bad high balls into O'Connor- its as if we Never practised lofting in a high ball into the square, shocking.

Second half performance was truly awful, just awful.

We didn't play as well as we could and while we only have a week to get over an energy sapping game, I expect us to beat Kildare. Kerry were very beatable last night, make no mistake about it, despite how we played we were still with them most of the game, a goal with 10 to go could have made it very interesting, but it would really only have helped to mask our deficiencies.
The set up is wrong. Cuthbert I am sure is trying his best but he is out of his depth. He always has been, he always will be. His backroom I don't think are the right people either. Maybe in 5 or so years with some more coaching etc experience they might be better suited. Cork need a proven manager. A manager that can get the best out of the players, that of course starts by playing them in their best positions. Tactics play a huge part of the modern game, changing them during a match can often decide the result. Kerry have had plenty of managers who can do this and Fitzmaurice is growing in ability all the time while Cuthbert simply does not have the know how unfortunately.

The better team won last night, no doubt about it. But we, yet again, did not help ourselves. Things did not go our way for sure but a good team plans for that and has options as a result.

I believe we have a good group of footballers who could be much better than their display last night. Some of them need guidance, some need to know what a plan b looks like, some of them need to play in a different position and finally some of them need a kick up the hole - all the above are a managers job.

this is it really. you wouldn't throw a young lad with no minor or u-21 intercounty experience into senior yet our selectors are learning on the job.

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-07-2015 01:49PM

sean mac wrote: »

gary with all dues respect your delusional not ttm. Cork lost last night because when plan a didn't work, there was NO plan b, putting alan o connor in full forward was a total joke and showed a real lack of planning and ideas from the brainstrust imo. Bottom line we have been in 3 finals with this management and last nights 5 point loss was the best we have done, Kerry were so comfortable for the last 20 minutes it could have been a 20 point beating. Overall very disappointing, nothwithstanding the excellent loughrey, Cronin and a few others.
Kildare I understand have a big issue with their manager but will be up for this game and will have support with them, depending on how the next few days go will say a lot, however as for facing the dubs.........nightmare stuff altoghether for a team with an average midfield, static full forward line, weak bench and real lack of ideas on the line.
We used got to killareny and draw or at least only lose by 2/3 points, this was our worst result there since 2004? how the **** people are trying to make this out as positive I don't know, corks management have run their road, perhaps Kildare will spare us the ritual slaughter and embarrassment of what Dublin will do (remember gary, Dublin now have 2 full weeks to prepare for us)very disappointing performance, terrible lack of ideas from the line and really sad to see so many players who should be leaders like shileds, gould, goulding fade away to really average players at this level.
Finally its clear that brian hurley needs a break, what we could have given for a dan maceoin type target man last night.........who is coaching this team?

Sean outstanding post again absoultey outstanding

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-07-2015 01:51PM

btownboy wrote: »

Excellent post DD Mikesa.

Fair play Bishopstown support their own fair play
Yes we should blame the weather blame the ref everything bar the management

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-07-2015 01:54PM

Gary Neville wrote: »

I don't have the match recorded but I'd be very interested to know if Kerry took the free leading to their goal, in the right place. If so, it would be the first time ever, that Cooper took a free from the correct position.

That free that Deegan awared to Donaghy in the 1st half was a disgrace and then he moved it right in front of the posts - Cork had possession and were attacking and Deegan just decided to give them a point - If the free was taken from the wrong position then that's the vital goal down to Deegan.

Sheehan engaged in cynical fouling all evening - one one occasion he caught BOD by the jersey and dragged him down - we got the free so Deegan saw the incident - how was that not deemed a black card ?

We've got to accept now that we will never get the decisions in Killarney and we need to be 6 pts better than them to win there.

In spite of TTM's ranting (with all due respect to him - as he says himself) The conditions favoured Kerry are our running HB line could not exert the same influence as the first day - any clown can see that you can't solo as effectively in those conditiions.

We just have to write this off and move on - hopefully the players will stay positive - I think they will get back on the rails v Kildare and maybe the 2 tough games in Killarney will help to prepare for Dublin.

We know what to expect v Dublin ( I know that Kildare could be dangerous especially if we take them lightly) and we can prepare accordingly. At tleast there is a realtionship between management and players now.

So we lost the Munster Title after some bad reffing and bad luck - big deal - we've got to take the tough route now but that didn't bother is in 2010.

Your logic is baffling
Dublin five years ago to now are completely different and couninhan for all he's faults had defence team

What relationship between management and players is so great
What are you talking about?

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-07-2015 01:57PM

sean mac wrote: »

gary with all dues respect your delusional not ttm. Cork lost last night because when plan a didn't work, there was NO plan b, putting alan o connor in full forward was a total joke and showed a real lack of planning and ideas from the brainstrust imo. Bottom line we have been in 3 finals with this management and last nights 5 point loss was the best we have done, Kerry were so comfortable for the last 20 minutes it could have been a 20 point beating. Overall very disappointing, nothwithstanding the excellent loughrey, Cronin and a few others.
Kildare I understand have a big issue with their manager but will be up for this game and will have support with them, depending on how the next few days go will say a lot, however as for facing the dubs.........nightmare stuff altoghether for a team with an average midfield, static full forward line, weak bench and real lack of ideas on the line.
We used got to killareny and draw or at least only lose by 2/3 points, this was our worst result there since 2004? how the **** people are trying to make this out as positive I don't know, corks management have run their road, perhaps Kildare will spare us the ritual slaughter and embarrassment of what Dublin will do (remember gary, Dublin now have 2 full weeks to prepare for us)very disappointing performance, terrible lack of ideas from the line and really sad to see so many players who should be leaders like shileds, gould, goulding fade away to really average players at this level.
Finally its clear that brian hurley needs a break, what we could have given for a dan maceoin type target man last night.........who is coaching this team?

Sean all I say is with you and shamboc and few others thank God ye post here cause your right now no disrespect Gary but your talking nonsense #regards cork football you actually and I'll repost your old posts you want but one day you rate cuthbhertt next day you don't then you rate him like sean said your way off

Referee yes made poor calls but we'll done gary old chap blame the ref blame the weather blame the uncontrollable bar blame one thing you can the management
You have no idea what good manager is if you rate this one

Now again you ignore the facts as simply you have no answer for them
Enlighten me please with your words of wisdom
Why cork blanket conceded awful lot in wet conditions and every yes every single game this year?
Why loughrey man marked o donughe and he got man match?
Why cork failed dismally score play in match just three points and like last year this year go though long spell without scoring?

Why did cork bring on gould and he barely touched the ball???
Why did kerry make two subs to cork none up to the fifty minutes mark
Why did cork persist with the running game when the dog on the street knew it was going to rain
You are aware you can get weather forecast three days in advance
Why did kerry play the conditions
If cork can't play in the wet, riddle me how can we win an all Ireland as you said we would two weeks shot??

You say the players belive in this set up
Did you see donnacha reaction when he was taken off
There was way worse than him
This isn't not a rant but with the greatest respect your views time and again have been completely off the mark with Cork players and the team itself
Well beat Kildare and you will speak same old riddle oh we improved well surprise Dublin
This is Dublin elite sport and they will unfortunately absoultey hose this cork team
Management like shamboc said try hard and nice men and commitment and passion great but purely only field play I judge them and there not up to it at all
And before your usual nonsense no no no kate Kirby is absoultey outstanding yes as sports physiologists but she has no no input or won't turn this around as she has nothing nothing now let's be crystal clear nothing to do with the tactics, game plan and teams selection but maybe she should as Davis sullivan great players but have no record like sexton in management and cuthbhertt record in management is truly awful at all levels
I get no joy in being blunt but no point in fooling ourselves, we must realise this management are no where near other teams
We don't even do warm weather training camps yet kerry and monaghan and Donegal and Dublin do
They take their football seriously
Kerry even had gps yesterday for the players
Kerry are winners cork have no minimum standard and failure is acceptable and tolerated year on year.

It makes sense · 19-07-2015 02:28PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Wrong wrong wrong

In my view i said if cuthbhertt beat kerry today considering kerry wanted avoid Dublin this was must win for them and true test them so no he would got credit if they won

Let's keep this in perspective
He's lost another big game and handy also in but for the weather kerry would steam rolled cork

I'd love to be wrong with this management truly i would but
In judging management as many know here with many Cork ones and other counties I'm normally not far off the mark in seeing good and poor manager and I just can't see this set up being good enough as you look at their records in club and inter county scene and it's poor

Soley purely field play this management are not up to it
Cuthbhertt be good administration but not a manager
He's great passion and commitment and should be involved in cork football but not as a manager
There's better men than him to coach cork

Cleary Driscoll ephie Fitzgerald Kisssne ned English all be much much better than this set up
Even doubts remain with some of these i mentioned

Defence one year in with a blanket that begun v sligo has never improved nor has the link of defence to attack
That is poor reflection on managment

Prefer the hurling but watching the football last night was very painful apart from ten minutes in the first half we were totally at sea. Couple of observations as I never brought into we have turned the corner stuff is again as soon as the game started going away from us there was no plan b, kerry were dominate at midfield and we left o, Connor alone out there by himself until he was moved to full, surely Cuthbert knew Kerry would work him over. We were playing the so called sweeper but Kerry were still able to pop over the points whereas second half our tactic was to sent high ball into o,Connor obviously not practiced as the quality of ball was terrible this is the worry how do we change it when we have to. Sure Hurley has to work harder held scoreless again but he is getting dragged out to the wing miles from goal same for O,'Neill he got one point from a diagonal ball but again was chasing shadows out on the wing they need to be closer to goal, roll on the hurling next week

thinkstoomuch1 · 19-07-2015 02:39PM

It makes sense wrote: »

Prefer the hurling but watching the football last night was very painful apart from ten minutes in the first half we were totally at sea. Couple of observations as I never brought into we have turned the corner stuff is again as soon as the game started going away from us there was no plan b, kerry were dominate at midfield and we left o, Connor alone out there by himself until he was moved to full, surely Cuthbert knew Kerry would work him over. We were playing the so called sweeper but Kerry were still able to pop over the points whereas second half our tactic was to sent high ball into o,Connor obviously not practiced as the quality of ball was terrible this is the worry how do we change it when we have to. Sure Hurley has to work harder held scoreless again but he is getting dragged out to the wing miles from goal same for O,'Neill he got one point from a diagonal ball but again was chasing shadows out on the wing they need to be closer to goal, roll on the hurling next week

Outstanding post
Only one belived we turned corner imo with greatest respect them are the naive fans that can't see the light of day kerry weaker last day fitness off and Cork still despite poor ref could not beat them
Kerry much stronger and never danger loosing as if goal didn't go in they still got point as Cork failed score last twenty six minutes play says it all
Were actually lucky it rained as made awful awful defence structure look better than it was and kerry would have scored way more better day

We better pray rain v Dublin as Dublin pace tempo ruthless execution will blow this team away
Cork are gone after last night mentally even cuthbhertt only thing said right in hard chance it now but Imo players will loose total belive set up now
He needs to be thanked after Dublin game but no way absoultey not does he or any one bar Flanagan deserve new term

CORKDOUBLE · 19-07-2015 03:14PM

Gary Neville wrote: »

Your reaction is bordering on hysterical.

People need to be realistic about Cork Football - We are primarily focused on Hurling and our CB has little or no interest in Football. Frank Murphy picked a manager on the basis that he would allow dualism and as a consequence of this we lost Cahalane and A Walsh. We also lost C SHeehan to AFL - Sheehan and AW were the 'stand-out' players in our excellent 2011 U21 side. We went to Killarney, a 'fortress' venue of the AI champions where 50/50 decisions go with the home side - we were without Maguire, Cadogan, Clancy & O Rourke, in addition to the 3 unavailable. Imagine the side we'd have with these 7 playing ?

The conditions made this game a lottery and we could not run at the Kerry team effectively - this removed our biggest advantage and masked their biggest weakness but if Cronin's fantastic effort went in - then Kerry would have had to come at us - instead they got a fortunate goal and could sit back and suck us in knowing that they had a huge lead with the conditions.

We should regroup and a good performance v Kildare will allow us face Dublin in a decent frame of mind.

Fair play Gary that's the reality of Cork football , if that was Kerry they still would have Walsh and Cahalane playing football ....if the super Stephen Cronins effort went in it would have been a different game ...its goes to show we have the players , but I have no faith in Cuthbert whats so ever.

Gary Neville · 19-07-2015 05:35PM

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

Fair play Gary that's the reality of Cork football , if that was Kerry they still would have Walsh and Cahalane playing football ....if the super Stephen Cronins effort went in it would have been a different game ...its goes to show we have the players , but I have no faith in Cuthbert whats so ever.

Yeah - CORKDOUBLE - the difference between success and failure is very slim. Some of the whinging on this thread is pretty sicking - with all due respect to the whingers LOL.

Kealy probably won the Munster Title for Kerry with that save.

We have superb players - unfortunately we are having a serious run of injuries - Clancy, O Rourke, Crowley, Vaughan, Deane, Maguire etc - these would all probably be major players for us this year but injuries have hampered their development.

I'm delighted with the effort of the players - we can't blame them for the incompetence of Paudie Hughes. We have 2 serious defenders now in BOD and Cronin and they will really benefit from the 2 games in Killarney.

If Cork were able to pick themselves up last season, then I'm fairly sure they'll do so again. We can't talk of Dublin until we (hopefully) beat Kildare.

I don't know what to make of Cuthbert - but management has improved an awful lot this season. I believed that he should not be judged until after the Munster Final and as he was robbed of victory then I think we'll have to reserve judgement until our season ends.

There's very little to choose between Donegal, Kerry, Mayo and ourselves - Dublin look the team to beat but they can always be caught cold.

The_Kew_Tour · 19-07-2015 06:37PM

I thought Cork did well till the Kerry Goal, but Cork made far too many mistakes over the 2 games.

If we cut out giving away stupid scores we would have some chance.

But Cork Football lacks a few tough nuts. Too many nice fellas in the Cork team, we just roll over too easily at times.

This Cork team as a AI in them with right attitude, new approach to management and bit more ruthless streak.

Until then we're just making up the numbers.

willietherock · 19-07-2015 07:27PM

There was a total lack of support for CO'N/BH when they attacked from the v beginning. Kelly and Donnacha don't have the mobility to support them and Kerrigan way too defensive. Halfback line one or two runs aside never attacked. Basically Cork were way too defensive from the get go. Kerry were there for the taking!

Pos087 · 19-07-2015 07:34PM

Any news from the hurling camp. Are people expecting the same starting 15. IMO Alan cadigan needs to be dropped he needs another year or 2 to work on strength in the last 2 games he has dropped around 5 or 6 shots short into the keepers hands and Full backs have figured out his junk and turn. Don't mean to sound hard on the lad as he has a good future ahead of him.

Figsy32 · 19-07-2015 08:05PM

Just back from over the border. Disappointing but not overly surprising result I suppose. First thing first is to credit the players on their effort. They gave everything. Kevin O'Driscoll in particular ran himself into the ground.

Few points about the game. Haven't watched it back on telly so this is subject to change when I get a better perspective. I'll start with the good I suppose.

Thought Loughrey and Jamie O'Sullivan both acquitted themselves extremely well. I don't think Loughrey should have been put at corner back in a man marking role but he was brilliant. O'Donoghue getting man of the match seemed absolutely mental.

Half back line was promising again. Brian O'Driscoll seemed a lot more comfortable than I have seen him before.

Kevin O'Driscoll and Kerrigan worked tirelessly and kept trying to make things happen. O'Driscoll has made a lot of people eat their hat in the last couple of weeks and deserves huge credit.

The bad.

Colm O'Neill and Hurley need to show for the ball more. You don't see this if you're not at the pitch, but the difference in movement off the ball between them and O'Donoghue or BJK is frightening. There was a total lack of options at times. I'm slightly worried Hurley is being found out. Defenders are starting to leave him on his left foot and he doesn't seem to know what to do with that when he can't bully his way back on to his right foot.

Similarly, when playing this way we need to make sure we have two players in the half forward line to link the play at all times. Attack is as important as defence and having Kelly, Kerrigan AND Collins back at the same time is overkill. Often times Donnacha or Kelly were left 2 or 3 on one when trying to link defence to attack and they couldn't get free. Even when they could get the ball, they were under such pressure they couldn't really link the ball.

There was a complete failure to adapt to conditions and the game situation. That's the most worrying thing for me about the game.

The first example is the game plan we played with the weather the way it was. Running the ball the way they wanted to was crazy in such weather. When the ball is slippery, we don't have the lads who can cope with Kerry physically and hold onto the ball consistently in that weather. A more direct approach was needed.

The substifutions were slow and wrong. This is obviously very subjective but I thought some of the decisions were very strange. Sticking O'Connor into full forward seemed full on panic.

zetecescort · 19-07-2015 09:00PM

Pos087 wrote: »

Any news from the hurling camp. Are people expecting the same starting 15. IMO Alan cadigan needs to be dropped he needs another year or 2 to work on strength in the last 2 games he has dropped around 5 or 6 shots short into the keepers hands and Full backs have figured out his junk and turn. Don't mean to sound hard on the lad as he has a good future ahead of him.

start Coughlan?

Pos087 · 19-07-2015 09:17PM

zetecescort wrote: »

start Coughlan?

I would start coughlan but don't think jbm will. We defo have the fire power to win this another clean sheet IMO we win no prob. Not sure if Murphy, mc Donald or Callahan will pick up canning. Keeping him quiet and Ellis dominant as sweeper will be winning of this.

Gary Neville · 19-07-2015 09:36PM

Figsy32 wrote: »

Just back from over the border. Disappointing but not overly surprising result I suppose. First thing first is to credit the players on their effort. They gave everything. Kevin O'Driscoll in particular ran himself into the ground.

Few points about the game. Haven't watched it back on telly so this is subject to change when I get a better perspective. I'll start with the good I suppose.

Thought Loughrey and Jamie O'Sullivan both acquitted themselves extremely well. I don't think Loughrey should have been put at corner back in a man marking role but he was brilliant. O'Donoghue getting man of the match seemed absolutely mental.

Half back line was promising again. Brian O'Driscoll seemed a lot more comfortable than I have seen him before.

Kevin O'Driscoll and Kerrigan worked tirelessly and kept trying to make things happen. O'Driscoll has made a lot of people eat their hat in the last couple of weeks and deserves huge credit.

The bad.

Colm O'Neill and Hurley need to show for the ball more. You don't see this if you're not at the pitch, but the difference in movement off the ball between them and O'Donoghue or BJK is frightening. There was a total lack of options at times. I'm slightly worried Hurley is being found out. Defenders are starting to leave him on his left foot and he doesn't seem to know what to do with that when he can't bully his way back on to his right foot.

Similarly, when playing this way we need to make sure we have two players in the half forward line to link the play at all times. Attack is as important as defence and having Kelly, Kerrigan AND Collins back at the same time is overkill. Often times Donnacha or Kelly were left 2 or 3 on one when trying to link defence to attack and they couldn't get free. Even when they could get the ball, they were under such pressure they couldn't really link the ball.

There was a complete failure to adapt to conditions and the game situation. That's the most worrying thing for me about the game.

The first example is the game plan we played with the weather the way it was. Running the ball the way they wanted to was crazy in such weather. When the ball is slippery, we don't have the lads who can cope with Kerry physically and hold onto the ball consistently in that weather. A more direct approach was needed.

The substifutions were slow and wrong. This is obviously very subjective but I thought some of the decisions were very strange. Sticking O'Connor into full forward seemed full on panic.

That's a valid point but we had to keep it very tight in the first half and with so few lads up front - it was hard to go long. Our tactics worked ok for 50 mins and if Cronins shot went in - we'd have probably won.

The Kerry goal was vital as it gave them a massive buffer - as good as 6 pts in normal conditions - going long then wasn't a great option as they had numbers back.

You need massive luck and a really good ref to win there.

wackokid · 19-07-2015 09:59PM

Figsy32 wrote: »

Just back from over the border. Disappointing but not overly surprising result I suppose. First thing first is to credit the players on their effort. They gave everything. Kevin O'Driscoll in particular ran himself into the ground.

Few points about the game. Haven't watched it back on telly so this is subject to change when I get a better perspective. I'll start with the good I suppose.

Thought Loughrey and Jamie O'Sullivan both acquitted themselves extremely well. I don't think Loughrey should have been put at corner back in a man marking role but he was brilliant. O'Donoghue getting man of the match seemed absolutely mental.

Half back line was promising again. Brian O'Driscoll seemed a lot more comfortable than I have seen him before.

Kevin O'Driscoll and Kerrigan worked tirelessly and kept trying to make things happen. O'Driscoll has made a lot of people eat their hat in the last couple of weeks and deserves huge credit.

The bad.

Colm O'Neill and Hurley need to show for the ball more. You don't see this if you're not at the pitch, but the difference in movement off the ball between them and O'Donoghue or BJK is frightening. There was a total lack of options at times. I'm slightly worried Hurley is being found out. Defenders are starting to leave him on his left foot and he doesn't seem to know what to do with that when he can't bully his way back on to his right foot.

Similarly, when playing this way we need to make sure we have two players in the half forward line to link the play at all times. Attack is as important as defence and having Kelly, Kerrigan AND Collins back at the same time is overkill. Often times Donnacha or Kelly were left 2 or 3 on one when trying to link defence to attack and they couldn't get free. Even when they could get the ball, they were under such pressure they couldn't really link the ball.

There was a complete failure to adapt to conditions and the game situation. That's the most worrying thing for me about the game.

The first example is the game plan we played with the weather the way it was. Running the ball the way they wanted to was crazy in such weather. When the ball is slippery, we don't have the lads who can cope with Kerry physically and hold onto the ball consistently in that weather. A more direct approach was needed.

The substifutions were slow and wrong. This is obviously very subjective but I thought some of the decisions were very strange. Sticking O'Connor into full forward seemed full on panic.

Good post Figsy. You have highlighted a lot of our deficiencies.
I thought Spillane was OTT today on TV when he said Kerry never had to get out of 2nd gear last night. Yes, Kerry is a football only county and should always beat a dual county but I feel they have a special relationship with referees allied to their football prowess. I can find no other reason for some of the decisions we are forced to endure regularly.
It seems to me that we have oodles of good footballers but all of a similar standard. We haven't had a marque player since Tomkins and he wasn't even our own either. Every top county have at least one outstanding, hard to mark player, but we don't. Neither do we have a football nursery college so that explains partially why we are second tier operators.
Don't anybody expect that to change in the immediate future as it's well nigh impossible to beat the current top four or five counties without top class structures and a few unmarkable players. Where are the Conor McManusses Colm Coopers James O Donoghues Diarmuid Connollys Paul Flynns Micheal Murphys Paddy McBreartys etc etc. to be found in Cork?
We will always produce hurlers that are the envy of others but not footballers. Why?........because our executive or should I say chief executive is not a football man and isn't about to change now.

commonsense. · 19-07-2015 10:57PM

zetecescort wrote:

start Coughlan?

If it's a choice between Coughlan and Cadogan to start, it's Cadogan every time for me. Jamie was involved in 4 plays vs Clare when he came on. Scored a straight forward point when played into space from one and didn't deliver with the other 3 (a bad wide, a wayward pass and a mis-placed line ball). The system of play Cork have deployed in the last 2 games dosen't really suit either Cadogan or Coughlan's style of play. But for me, Cadogan brings more energy and drive. A big part of hurling is still about a fellas ability to win his own ball and Cadogan will do that better in my view.

N20 · 19-07-2015 11:29PM

zetecescort wrote: »

start Coughlan?

Such a shame Paudie never got back to his pre leg break form. A definite loss from that perspective as prob the most threatening of what the bench offers.

I'd stick with Cadogan although he has been inconsistent and less effective this year, he still worth a start.

fair play to coughlan, Moylan, for sticking with it despite limited pitch time - they are pretty much relegated to impact sub at this stage. I'd assume if new blood is being brought in for next year these lads will have served their time

keep going · 20-07-2015 12:04AM

I sometimes wonder about all this talent thats supposed to be available in cork football, yeah alot of clubs but its along time since we were competitive in munster or all ireland series and our schools are not faring well either.you can crib about management of intercounty teams and the county boards handling of teams but they have little to do with schools teams or club teams for that matter.as for development squads set up , I have seen more young players getting damaged than improved by being involved with them.stripping out tactics and team placing, just look at how much more comfortable and capable kerry footballers are compared to cork and they seem to be able to do more with a ball.

wackokid · 20-07-2015 12:30AM

keep going wrote: »

I sometimes wonder about all this talent thats supposed to be available in cork football, yeah alot of clubs but its along time since we were competitive in munster or all ireland series and our schools are not faring well either.you can crib about management of intercounty teams and the county boards handling of teams but they have little to do with schools teams or club teams for that matter.as for development squads set up , I have seen more young players getting damaged than improved by being involved with them.stripping out tactics and team placing, just look at how much more comfortable and capable kerry footballers are compared to cork and they seem to be able to do more with a ball.

They don't do anything else FFS. so stop wondering.

thinkstoomuch1 · 20-07-2015 12:55AM

Hurling team named this Wednesday or Thursday

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