Transracial

Dogowner55 · 12-07-2015 08:14PM

Paramite Pie wrote: »

In the first few weeks of conception all our DNA is genderless. The 'Y' chromosomes develop which changes us into males. It's conceivable (at least to me) that some people only partially develop in that manner.

This gives rise to both Transgender (who tend to have brain development "in-between" genders) and Inter-sex people who have typically have genetic (XXY instead of XY) and sometimes physical gender traits (ie both genitalia).

Studies have shown that the Androgen or Testosterone receptors in Transgender people are longer/shorter than the norm for their biological gender - hence we assign them an internal one.

There is no physical evidence for an inward Race vs outward Race since it doesn't generally have an impact outside of your culture. Gender encompasses a biological identity as well as a cultural one.

It's also raceless at the start too. I don't think transsexuals will agree a cultural reason is why they are trans

Temptamperu · 12-07-2015 08:17PM

Dogowner55 wrote: »

But do you believe transsexual is a thing? I can't figure out why someone would believe one is a thing and the other isn't.

Like I could understand if you thought both where not a thing.

Because there are thousands of transsexuals and only one rachel dozall.

Dogowner55 · 12-07-2015 08:22PM

Temptamperu wrote: »

Because there are thousands of transsexuals and only one rachel dozall.

I gave a link with another transracial person in the op. Remember there was very little trans people in the 60's well there was but they never came forward till there was the ones that made progress.

We are seeing the start of awareness of transracial now, so will be a while till more people will be comfortable coming out. Hell there could be many stealth transracial people you don't know about, people din't realise dozall was transracial till she got outed

evolving_doors · 12-07-2015 08:24PM

Temptamperu wrote: »

Because there are thousands of transsexuals and only one rachel dozall.

Although in fairness there was probably a time when people would have said there were only 1 or 2 transgenders in Ireland (only Gay in the village perspective!).

What if a lot more folk start to come out as feeling that they belong to a different race... and then analysis of their genes show that they have distinct markers from other races.

Cohen gene anyone??

Eugene Norman · 12-07-2015 08:35PM

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Although in fairness there was probably a time when people would have said there were only 1 or 2 transgenders in Ireland (only Gay in the village perspective!).

What if a lot more folk start to come out as feeling that they belong to a different race... and then analysis of their genes show that they have distinct markers from other races.

Cohen gene anyone??

You are obsessed with that gene. We've known for centuries that Jewish people migrated everywhere. Presumably some converted to Christianity or Islam or whatever.

evolving_doors · 12-07-2015 08:55PM

Eugene Norman wrote: »

You are obsessed with that gene. We've known for centuries that Jewish people migrated everywhere. Presumably some converted to Christianity or Islam or whatever.

Yes and similarly we could be saying the same about trans-racial in a few centuries.

So if someone says they feel like they are from another race, is it absolutely necessary that it be provable by scientific method for their feelings to be validated and as a result accepted by the general public?

Was it necessary for us to wait until science could figure out when gender is formed in the womb or xy y xxy chromosomes before transgender was further 'validated and accepted' by society?

catallus · 12-07-2015 09:44PM

Very Bored wrote: »

What if somebody says they think they are a carrot?

That's easy, just get them to make a carrot noise.

osarusan · 12-07-2015 10:16PM

I don't know much about it, but I'm tentatively open to the idea that transracialism could be legitimate.

What I detest though, is the totally disingenuous argument that 'if you think it is ok for Jenner, you should not have a problem with Rachel Dolezal.'

If somebody wants to make a case for transracialism, Dolezal is the worst possible poster girl.

Dogowner55 · 12-07-2015 10:20PM

osarusan wrote: »

'

If somebody wants to make a case for transracialism, Dolezal is the worst possible poster girl.

Why though? If it's cause she was less then honest with her history, transsexual women that are stealth fo the same where they make up a story about their childhood and family to stop from being outed.

Letree · 12-07-2015 11:47PM

You are what you are not what you think you are.

Dogowner55 · 12-07-2015 11:52PM

Letree wrote: »

You are what you are not what you think you are.

So you think transsexuals are not a thing also?

evolving_doors · 12-07-2015 11:52PM

Letree wrote: »

You are what you are not what you think you are.

But do you have to be what others say you are?

Letree · 12-07-2015 11:57PM

Dogowner55 wrote: »

So you think transsexuals are not a thing also?

Transexuals are transexuals.

Dogowner55 · 13-07-2015 12:05AM

Letree wrote: »

Transexuals are transexuals.

And transracials are transracials?

justchecked · 13-07-2015 02:02AM

Dogowner55 wrote: »

And transracials are transracials?

Irie mon.

Robsweezie · 13-07-2015 02:08AM

justchecked wrote:

Irie mon.

Pokemon??

barneystinson · 13-07-2015 02:13AM

I'm in the Alf Stewart school of thought on this one; they're all as mad as a cut snake AND/OR a shower of flaming mongrels.

Eramen · 13-07-2015 02:29AM

I for one will stand by my fellow tranny's on the transracial issue. Afterall I am also making my very own personal transition (being a trans-temporal member of the human race).

In my case I identify with being born in a time/century different from the present one to which I feel I have no connection (I am trans-temporal backwards - meaning I am actually living in the body of a past-temporal person). I also know a person who is trans-forwards, so it's much more common than you would think.

It's not so hard to grasp this reality once you become open to it, but I often find that non-trans people just don't understand or are just outright bigoted when they find out about my temporality..

It's too bad that 2015 is so backward and inane, and this is a big reason why I've just left it behind.

#EqualityforTemporals

Samaris · 13-07-2015 02:43AM

Eh, I think this is apples and pears, or possible apples and a combine harvester.

Firstly, "if you believe in X, you must believe in Y" isn't a good argument. Secondly, transsexualism is only just beginning to be understood, and there's still a lot of questions around it, but there does seem to be valid biochemical arguments for it.

For transracialism, that seems to be more down to transculturalism. "I believe I am Black". OK, so what exactly makes one Black? A certain genetic heritage affecting the physiology of the person - a slightly different bone structure, and, obviously, greater production of melanin in the skin, plus a different hair structure (the scalp develops it in a different pattern, apparently, something to do with a swirl rather than a straight parting, although I'm open to a better description than that).

Firstly, we are mostly of mixed race heritage somewhere along the line. Secondly, it does not appear to affect one's brain chemistry to a point where you can define the mind of a Black person (I'm using black as an example, this could obviously go for Asian or whatever) as being different in working from a White person. So, we seem to be getting closer to cultural differences, Eminem has been brought up several times. I don't really think you can be born of a specific culture*, although, interestingly, speech patterns are impressed into a baby's mind for the specific society , and there even seems to be some evidence that that starts before birth, apparently from the surroundings in late pregnancy. But language is only a part of it. Language and culture are still -learned-, not genetically encoded.

In short, one can identify with a race that is not typical of one's physiology, and there's nothing wrong with that, but there does not seem to be any brain chemistry that significantly differentiates one race of human from another, and therefore, transracialism, to my mind, seems to be a highly dodgy concept.

*Edit: You can be born TO a specific culture and brought up IN that culture, but if you remove a baby from their parents at birth and bring them up in a different family, they will be brought up in, and therefore be part of, that culture, not the one they were born into. It's variable, and environmental, not genetic.

Merces · 13-07-2015 06:15AM

Great another excuse to down on the most downtrodden minority in our society. There is a neurological cause for people getting sex changes. They have the brains of the gender they identify with. Not so with people who identify with other races and cultures.

Dogowner55 · 13-07-2015 09:02AM

Merces wrote: »

Great another excuse to down on the most downtrodden minority in our society. There is a neurological cause for people getting sex changes. They have the brains of the gender they identify with. Not so with people who identify with other races and cultures.

In the 70's there was no studies to show transsexualism was a thing but people where still transsexual, transraical just need more studies I am sure they will find links and atm transsexualism isn't even understood it's theory not any facts. You can't write off transracials yet

Day Lewin · 13-07-2015 09:18AM

I thought there was only one human race. Human DNA. Not other primates or other mammals.

Of course, human DNA includes many, many kinds of skin colour, hair colour, body shape, disease-prone-ness and thousands, maybe millions, of other genetically determined qualities.

We are all the same race, though - we can all interbreed.

You want to be a different colour or have different hair? Get a dye job.
You want to identify with some cultural group? Go to live there, learn the language. [You can't un-learn your own early education, though]

I just don't believe in this idea of "racial". Am I a Celt or a Norman or a modern European, although of course my remote ancestors (like everyone's ) came out of Africa?

To hell with all that, I'm just a human, so are you.

PS I forgot about the poor old Neanderthals. Slightly different DNA. So maybe a different "race" - and apparently they did interbreed, and some traces of the DNA survive. But you can't tell it by looking at someone, for sure. And they are extinct. :-(

Dogowner55 · 13-07-2015 09:27AM

katemarch wrote: »

I thought there was only one human race. Human DNA. Not other primates or other mammals.

Of course, human DNA includes many, many kinds of skin colour, hair colour, body shape, disease-prone-ness and thousands, maybe millions, of other genetically determined qualities.

We are all the same race, though - we can all interbreed.

You want to be a different colour or have different hair? Get a dye job.
You want to identify with some cultural group? Go to live there, learn the language. [You can't un-learn your own early education, though]

I just don't believe in this idea of "racial". Am I a Celt or a Norman or a modern European, although of course my remote ancestors (like everyone's ) came out of Africa?

To hell with all that, I'm just a human, so are you.

PS I forgot about the poor old Neanderthals. Slightly different DNA. So maybe a different "race" - and apparently they did interbreed, and some traces of the DNA survive. But you can't tell it by looking at someone, for sure. And they are extinct. :-(

Species and race are different things and there is genetic differences between the races, being transracial you feel deep down like a different race and the external appearance change is just to feel mpre like your trueself from what I understand.

It's like how rachel darkens her skin to feel more comfortable about the race she felt she was. Transsexual do the same take hormones and get boobjobs grow hair long to feel more like the sex they feel they should be.

The external alteration of the sex/race they where given at birth is the best they can do to feel like how they are mean't to be.

Cuban Pete · 13-07-2015 11:11AM

osarusan wrote: »

I don't know much about it, but I'm tentatively open to the idea that transracialism could be legitimate.

What I detest though, is the totally disingenuous argument that 'if you think it is ok for Jenner, you should not have a problem with Rachel Dolezal.'

If somebody wants to make a case for transracialism, Dolezal is the worst possible poster girl.

It just exposes that this is reinventing the wheel of the sneering "if he can be a woman does that mean I can be black" bull to denigrate transgender folk.

I've yet to see someone frame the argument for "trans-racialism" in a way that isn't an argument against the concept of being transgender.

Dogowner55 · 13-07-2015 11:14AM

Cuban Pete wrote: »

It just exposes that this is reinventing the wheel of the sneering "if he can be a woman does that mean I can be black" bull to denigrate transgender folk.

I've yet to see someone frame the argument for "trans-racialism" in a way that isn't an argument against the concept of being transgender.

I gave two examples of transracial people in the op, just cause it's rare atm doesn't mean it's fake, transsexualism was rare in the 60's too.

Tombi! · 13-07-2015 11:46AM

Mod: We're done here.

OP, don't try anything like this again.

Transracial

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