The Hazards of Belief

BlaasForRafa · 02-07-2015 01:43PM

recedite wrote: »

Of course that assumes that the workload remains the same.
If business for them is also declining, then the workload gets fewer.

I live quite near to a church and the amount of masses has declined in the last 10 years or so from 2 per weekday (3 during lent) to 1 per weekday and from 5 on a Sunday to 3 but the amount of priests in the parish has gone from 3 to 1.

Also the amount of funerals seems to have increased due I suppose to the aging population which of course leads to a concomitant decrease in mass attendance. I'd imagine that they do a lot more ministering to the sick as well, although this will probably decline over time as the numbers of catholics declines.

MrPudding · 02-07-2015 07:25PM

recedite wrote: »

Of course that assumes that the workload remains the same.
If business for them is also declining, then the workload gets fewer.

So as society becomes fewer religious, the workload gets fewer and then we need less priests, is that what you are saying?

MrP

PopePalpatine · 02-07-2015 07:30PM

The sentences of three men charged with murdering Farkhunda Malikzada have had their death sentences commuted to twenty years' imprisonment, and a fourth was sentenced to ten years as he was a minor. The keeper of the mosque she murdered outside of was acquitted. BBC

Hotblack Desiato · 03-07-2015 09:05AM

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11709753/Teenage-girl-with-toilet-phobia-dies-from-heart-attack-after-going-eight-weeks-without-using-loo.html

A teenager died from a heart attack caused by constipation - after going eight weeks without a bowel movement, an inquest heard.

Emily Titterington, 16, had a phobia of using the loo and would frequently withhold her stools for up to two months.

Eventually her bowel grew so large it compressed her chest cavity and caused the displacement of other organs.

In a statement read out to the court, Emily's brother-in-law, Brian Herbert, said the family had tried a number of different remedies for her bowel condition.

They included homeopathic pills, and a technique known as Body Talk, which involved so-called "distance healing".

Which, amazingly, didn't work...

joseph brand · 03-07-2015 08:16PM

recedite wrote: »

Of course that assumes that the workload remains the same.
If business for them is also declining, then the workload gets fewer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0wj38qTtFU

joseph brand · 03-07-2015 08:17PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11709753/Teenage-girl-with-toilet-phobia-dies-from-heart-attack-after-going-eight-weeks-without-using-loo.html

Which, amazingly, didn't work...

Body Talk? Does that mean verbally coaxing out Mr Hanky?

joseph brand · 03-07-2015 08:20PM

Crazy Christian Woman Loses It Over Gay Marriage.

She does a whole 'leave Britney Jesus alone' whingefest. Christians playing the victim, again! Persecution of the majority once more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLUwNUg4rTA

BlaasForRafa · 04-07-2015 01:45AM

joseph brand wrote: »

Body Talk? Does that mean verbally coaxing out Mr Hanky?

It means non-stop karaoke of Imaginations hit song while popping and locking up and down the hospital corridor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC8J5treZZc

seriously though, why aren't families like this prosecuted for at the very least negligence if not manslaughter.

TheChizler · 04-07-2015 09:53AM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

It means non-stop karaoke of Imaginations hit song while popping and locking up and down the hospital corridor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC8J5treZZc

seriously though, why aren't families like this prosecuted for at the very least negligence if not manslaughter.

I think that's a bit harsh, they wanted her to get medically checked but they would literally have had to drag her kicking and screaming. Maybe the alternative stuff was done in the hopes that it would help her get over her phobia.

recedite · 04-07-2015 02:29PM

Emily's sister Hannah Herbert, 29, last saw her four weeks prior to her death.
Her mother told her Emily had not been to the toilet for "six to eight weeks" and this was "routine", the inquest heard.
Hannah told the inquest she did not feel that Emily was in a "healthy, safe environment" and had previously contacted social services with her concerns.

Routine!!!
I blame the parents. The sister Hannah seems to be the only sane member of the family, but wasn't actually living there.

BlaasForRafa · 04-07-2015 04:16PM

TheChizler wrote: »

I think that's a bit harsh, they wanted her to get medically checked but they would literally have had to drag her kicking and screaming. Maybe the alternative stuff was done in the hopes that it would help her get over her phobia.

I'm sorry but I don't think it's harsh at all. They are parents, they have to do the tough stuff whether it hurts her feelings or not. She was a child, she was their responsibility and they took the happy-clappy option instead of doing the right thing and dragging her to a hospital if need be.

TheChizler · 04-07-2015 05:39PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I'm sorry but I don't think it's harsh at all. They are parents, they have to do the tough stuff whether it hurts her feelings or not. She was a child, she was their responsibility and they took the happy-clappy option instead of doing the right thing and dragging her to a hospital if need be.

From the article it didn't say what the parents expected that stuff to do. Sounded like a desperate last ditch effort to get her to cooperate. They called an ambulance and she refused to go, short of sedating her I'm not sure what you expected them to do.

Whether it was negligent or not there's no indication to say that they put belief in alternative medicine above medical treatment, I'm not sure that this case qualifies as a hazard.

Pawwed Rig · 04-07-2015 05:54PM

TheChizler wrote: »

They called an ambulance and she refused to go, short of sedating her I'm not sure what you expected them to do.

At 16 you force the issue. She is too young to be making these decisions herself. Some kind of in patient mental health facility would seem appropriate itc

kylith · 04-07-2015 06:12PM

At 16 if she needs to be sedated to get medical treatment then she needs to be sedated.

If it were me though I'd have slipped a massive laxative into her drink, to the point where she wouldn't have had a choice of whether to poop or not. She must have been in absolute agony with that amount of faeces in her bowel though.

Shrap · 04-07-2015 06:19PM

TheChizler wrote: »

From the article it didn't say what the parents expected that stuff to do. Sounded like a desperate last ditch effort to get her to cooperate. They called an ambulance and she refused to go, short of sedating her I'm not sure what you expected them to do.

Whether it was negligent or not there's no indication to say that they put belief in alternative medicine above medical treatment, I'm not sure that this case qualifies as a hazard.

To be honest, if you have a child with "mild" autism (and I use the inverted commas wisely here, as there is very little mildness about a melt-down and how to handle one with any level of autism, high-functioning or otherwise) and their behaviour is that worrying, then yes, you would have to consider sedating her in order to get her to the help she needs.

If that withholding behaviour has gone on for a long time and the parents are considering it an average everyday occurrence, then those parents have been coping alone for waaaay too long (possibly becoming a bit institutionalised within their own situation). Someone should have listened to their older daughter.

TheChizler · 04-07-2015 06:21PM

kylith wrote: »

At 16 if she needs to be sedated to get medical treatment then she needs to be sedated.

Im not debating the need for forcing treatment, I don't think the parents were negligent specifically for bringing homeopathy into it, all it seems to have done was possibly delay treatment. No more than just hoping that she would eventually give in would have done. The article doesn't go into enough detail to say one way or another.

kylith · 04-07-2015 06:35PM

TheChizler wrote: »

Im not debating the need for forcing treatment, I don't think the parents were negligent specifically for bringing homeopathy into it, all it seems to have done was possibly delay treatment. No more than just hoping that she would eventually give in would have done. The article doesn't go into enough detail to say one way or another.

It delayed treatment to the point that a girl is dead, if that isn't negligent then I don't know what is. While staying hydrated is good for curing constipation homeopathy is as good as no treatment.

silverharp · 06-07-2015 12:36PM

I reckon the headline should be - More than a thousand Muslims commit mass suicide. Not drinking during a heatwave doesnt seem optimal? . Where is Allah when you need him , he is supposed to be looking after his followers at this time......

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/uk-heatwave-pakistan-death-toll-rises-as-clerics-urge-followers-to-abstain-from-ramadan-fasting-10360322.html

he death toll from the devastating heatwave that began in Pakistan almost two weeks ago has risen to 1,250, according to government officials.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif travelled to assess the situation on Wednesday in Karachi, the Sindh provincial capital, which has suffered the worst of the ill effects.

The death toll was issued in a government statement handed to Sharif during the high-level meeting.

While temperatures have started to subside in Pakistan, according to local media reports the mercury hit 122F (50C) at its peak.

Nodin · 06-07-2015 02:16PM

silverharp wrote: »

I reckon the headline should be - More than a thousand Muslims commit mass suicide. Not drinking during a heatwave doesnt seem optimal? . Where is Allah when you need him , he is supposed to be looking after his followers at this time......

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/uk-heatwave-pakistan-death-toll-rises-as-clerics-urge-followers-to-abstain-from-ramadan-fasting-10360322.html

See when you see this kind of thing

The severity of the weather has lead faith leaders to urge followers to hold
off from fasting if they are at any risk of sunstroke.

....you just know theres going to be a few shouting 'It is a test from God/Allah' and will carry on killing themselves regardless.

Also "Reasons to Keep Religion Out Of Law No MXCIX"

Nonetheless, there have been reports of some shops continuing to refuse to sell water and eating and drinking in public remain illegal under the country’s laws for “respecting Ramadan”.

TwoShedsJackson · 06-07-2015 04:29PM

Aren't pregnant women and people who are ill etc. given a pass during Ramadan?

Surely those sorts of conditions which have the power to kill you would mean that even supposedly able-bodied people, at risk of dehydration and the like, would be let drink water?

Or am I applying too much logic to the situation?

Nodin · 06-07-2015 06:12PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Aren't pregnant women and people who are ill etc. given a pass during Ramadan?

Surely those sorts of conditions which have the power to kill you would mean that even supposedly able-bodied people, at risk of dehydration and the like, would be let drink water?

Or am I applying too much logic to the situation?

In theory you are generally correct, however you forgot to apply the "Holy Joe" factor. Always a few.

MrPudding · 06-07-2015 09:25PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Aren't pregnant women and people who are ill etc. given a pass during Ramadan?

Surely those sorts of conditions which have the power to kill you would mean that even supposedly able-bodied people, at risk of dehydration and the like, would be let drink water?

Or am I applying too much logic to the situation?

Lol. Logic.

MrP

Hotblack Desiato · 07-07-2015 02:03PM

A rather odd article. The bible changed history all right but that's not the same thing as demonstrating that it did so in a positive way.

Why is ignorance of the Bible so acceptable in modern society? - Irish Times

Kleine Hundin · 07-07-2015 02:22PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Aren't pregnant women and people who are ill etc. given a pass during Ramadan?

Surely those sorts of conditions which have the power to kill you would mean that even supposedly able-bodied people, at risk of dehydration and the like, would be let drink water?

Or am I applying too much logic to the situation?

You are excused from doing Ramadam if you are pregnant, breastfeeding or ill, BUT you are to make up for it later by fasting at another time.

BlaasForRafa · 07-07-2015 05:08PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

A rather odd article. The bible changed history all right but that's not the same thing as demonstrating that it did so in a positive way.

Why is ignorance of the Bible so acceptable in modern society? - Irish Times

Remember that famous moral compass we’re supposed to have lost – the one that gives you guidelines for fairness in public life, an exposé of the likely faults in the church and proposes permanent cures for addiction?

Would that be the moral compass that means you have to kill your own son in order to forgive someone? The same moral compass that means any city with gay people in it deserves to be obliterated or one that doesn't find room for the commandment "Thou shalt not rape" but instead finds room for 4 commandments whose sole purpose is to assuage gods ego?

Hotblack Desiato · 07-07-2015 08:49PM

Trouble at t'mill.

Priest challenges belief in perpetual virginity of Mary

Fr Tony Flannery, founding member of the Association of Catholic Priests (ACP), has challenged the belief that Mary, mother of Jesus, was a life-long virgin.

He also called on former Catholic primate Cardinal Seán Brady to renounce titles and privileges as penance for his role in investigating allegations of child sex abuse by Fr Brendan Smyth.

Belief that Mary was “ever virgin” is a core Catholic teaching and is also held by Protestant and Orthodox churches.

In a reflection on last Sunday’s gospel reading, where Jesus is rejected by his neighbours, Fr Flannery draws attention to the question those neighbours asked: “Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon, and are not his sisters here with us?”

Commenting on his website, reproduced by the ACP, Fr Flannery says: “We are told that Jesus had four brothers, and an indefinite number of sisters. This does not fit with the church’s need to present Jesus as the Son of God, conceived in a way that is different from other humans, and Mary as the perpetual virgin. So the scholars turned the brothers and sisters into cousins!”

robindch · 07-07-2015 09:31PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Trouble at t'mill.

I can see a time in the not-too-distant future when Fr Flannery will be announcing that his name is now "Mr Flannery".

recedite · 07-07-2015 10:10PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Trouble at t'mill.

Priest challenges belief in perpetual virginity of Mary

Belief that Mary was “ever virgin” is a core Catholic teaching and is also held by Protestant and Orthodox churches.

I think that belief was abandoned by the vast majority of protestant churches around the time of the reformation.

recedite · 07-07-2015 10:14PM

Kleine Hundin wrote: »

You are excused from doing Ramadam if you are pregnant, breastfeeding or ill, BUT you are to make up for it later by fasting at another time.

If you were an Imam and I was a muslim, I'd follow you.
I've a bit of a sniffle, and therefore I'll take my Ramadan in 8 hour slots every night, until I've served all the time.

BlaasForRafa · 07-07-2015 10:16PM

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Trouble at t'mill.

Priest challenges belief in perpetual virginity of Mary

Joseph must have had the bluest balls in the entire middle east

The Hazards of Belief

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