Guinness advert Tom Crean factual mistakes

cajonlardo wrote: »

Nor did they mention that the his home was raided by the black and tans. They had him against a wall and aimed rifles at him before deciding not to execute him. At no time did he mention who he was or anything else that may have saved him. He faced loaded rifles in the hands of cold blooded killers and was prepared to die the way he lived.

I couldn't do that in fit. Could you?

But it would have been braver to join the fight for independence?

Anyone involved with Dail had to be brave as they could be put up to a wall.

I doubt the Tans executed people on these types of raids by the way.

Mesrine65 wrote: »

On 25 April 1920 Crean's brother, Cornelius, a policeman in the Royal Irish Constabulary was killed along with another RIC officer in an IRA ambush in Ballinspittle, County Cork.

Maybe his loyalties were coloured by this event?!

A year after Ireland declared independence.

Plenty of people killed by the British before April 1920, Mesrine.

And he was already a member of the reserve navy, and informing.

cajonlardo wrote: »

Nor did they mention that the his home was raided by the black and tans. They had him against a wall and aimed rifles at him before deciding not to execute him. At no time did he mention who he was or anything else that may have saved him. He faced loaded rifles in the hands of cold blooded killers and was prepared to die the way he lived.

I couldn't do that in fit. Could you?

If they were cold blooded killers why on earth was he not brave enough to fight back instead of helping them do the same to others.

By the way, I think Crean's story was remarkable, and the whole polar expeditionary period is very interesting.

However this over the top forgotten legend thing is pretty annoying.

And how many people do not have statues - there are none for Michael Collins, Eamon deValera or Padraig Pearse - so offering his collaboration with the British as being the reason why he has none is ridiculous.

Also, how was him living in a free Ireland and owning a pub somehow indicative of him hiding his achievements?

So I do indeed like his story, but this "forgotten brave legend" nonsense is ruining it.

As a sidenote, Shackleton was the incompetent one - he fluffed the expedition, then went bankrupt, then ran in the British election as a unionist.

cajonlardo wrote: »

Maybe not. There were 2 executions in my town during raids on homes. Neither of the dead were activists. So I'm pretty sure they happened regularly.


I'm basing it on a documentery I watched about Crean on tg4 a while ago.

I definitely heard the story about the Tans seeing his WW1 medals, but at the same time, many IRA men served in WW1.

Seeing as his brother was with the RIC and he with the reserve royal navy, and seeing as the British probably made a mistake raiding his house, I'd imagine that he mentioned his membership shortly after he asked why they were raiding his house.

1gunsnroses wrote: »

Well it was sadly the same for all the Irish heroes who served the British army in the world wars forgotten Irish legends. Unlike the Aus/NZ servicemen who are honored ever year as Heroes, just as many Irish died in Gallipoli. We should have a national day in their honour aswell. Why don't Irish Schools teach about this? Tom Crean also? These guys were proud Irishmen who had to fight for the british just to make ends meet.

Did you mind if I ask if you went to school here?

Irish schools do teach it. Quite thoroughly.

They are in fact honoured every year. And the service for them is televised.

There isn't even a national independence day so having one for ww1 might be a bit odd.

The government want to stop history in schools so shoehorning a segment on polar exploration might be difficult, and every "unknown hero" claim would be put on, especially as people would then later claim they never were taught about like yourself and WW1.

1gunsnroses wrote: »

And without Creans appearance in the Guinness add, a lot of people would have never heard of this legend.

Ah I don't know about that, I remember studying the polar expeditions that he was apart of in school. I don't think he's forgotten about in Irish history at all, there's even a statue of him down in Annascaul.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Ah I don't know about that, I remember studying the polar expeditions that he was apart of in school. I don't think he's forgotten about in Irish history at all, there's even a statue of him down in Annascaul.

Never heard of him myself until the Guinness ads and the play about him that arrived around the same time. Not that I saw it, but I heard the ads.