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DCM 2015: Mentored Novices Thread
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Just in from 8 miles LSR, what a disaster, is it too early in training to not be feeling the love for running. Managed to run the 8 miles in the required pace but felt awful. Was hot, felt really sluggish and I hurt everywhere from my knee down. I actually had to stop to stretch my calf at one stage. Not sure if its a combination of running the LSR in the evening, as I usually run them on Sunday morning, the heat tonight, feeling tired after work, first LSR with no headphones and I missed them at stages to motivate me. I know we will have good days and bad days and you just gotta take the good days with the bad days and move on. Just worried about all these niggles would this be normal so early into the training to have constant niggles while you run. Anyway just gotta write it off as a bad one. Managed to get the 8 miles done in the required pace so job done. Move on as they say. Spent the last while doing the Gerard Harmann stretches and some foam rolling. Another trip to the physio or a sports massage may be in order. Everyone must be doing the Clontarf half tomorrow did not meet any runners on the way out and met one on the way back along Clontarf Road very unusual. Anyway moan over...... feeling better already !! happy running everyone and good luck in Clontarf HM tomorrow anyone doing it.
Thanks ! I have a rest day tomorrow and off to portugal for the week so some R & R definately on the cards. Have a seperate carry on with all my running gear so plan to run over there ! Some heat training !!!
For now, chalk it up to 'one of those days' but you're right to monitor the niggles. A niggle or pain that doesn't go away or even increases as the run progresses means you stop and go home.
Don't ever be a slave to the pace. If you're genuinely struggling/leaden/too much effort...dial it back, especially on a lsr. For now, these should be comfortable enough throughout.
Finally, happy holidays and don't let that carry on out of your sight
Keep hydrated and get out early. We'll be looking for some Bungy Girl type warm weather training reports
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Just in from 8 miles LSR, what a disaster, is it too early in training to not be feeling the love for running. Managed to run the 8 miles in the required pace but felt awful. Was hot, felt really sluggish and I hurt everywhere from my knee down. I actually had to stop to stretch my calf at one stage. Not sure if its a combination of running the LSR in the evening, as I usually run them on Sunday morning, the heat tonight, feeling tired after work, first LSR with no headphones and I missed them at stages to motivate me. I know we will have good days and bad days and you just gotta take the good days with the bad days and move on. Just worried about all these niggles would this be normal so early into the training to have constant niggles while you run. Anyway just gotta write it off as a bad one. Managed to get the 8 miles done in the required pace so job done. Move on as they say. Spent the last while doing the Gerard Harmann stretches and some foam rolling. Another trip to the physio or a sports massage may be in order. Everyone must be doing the Clontarf half tomorrow did not meet any runners on the way out and met one on the way back along Clontarf Road very unusual. Anyway moan over...... feeling better already !! happy running everyone and good luck in Clontarf HM tomorrow anyone doing it.
I felt the drain after last weekend and took a brief break before the half marathon tmrw. You may just have over cooked things a bit. Take the break. Enjoy the rest. You will come back refreshed and good to go. Remember we are novices!!0 -
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Hi Singer, I second Clearlier's advice. Targeting a race two weeks out is not going to make a significant difference IMO. The training you have done over the last year, however...willHey,
So I have a challenging enough goal for the Fingal 10k (sub-45). My recent Docklands 5k and Irish Runner 5m races have been around that level (21:14, 35:52) so it *should* be do-able if things goes well on the day.
What changes (if any) would you make to the Boards plan to target this race? Or is it just a case by now of following the plan as-is? Should I do some 5k/10k race-pace repeats between now and the race? The hill work next week seems like it should be worth keeping anyway.
The Fingal 10k is two weeks away on Sunday! :eek:
Pick your focus (hint, *marathon*) and do not deviate. You can race your socks off in Fingal, you have full permission to do that and you will demolish last year's time. A sub 45 is very possible; at this stage, planning a smart race strategy will be more useful and effective than altering the marathon schedule.
Ps what are you up to on the tracking sheet?:mad: 0 -
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That sounds like a solid enough session diego, well done, esp on the form and dopey smilingFollowing my trail run on Tuesday night and taking Wednesday as an easy 3 miles instead I did the 1m w/u, 3m pace, 1m c/d from the boards plan last night.
Ran from the corner of Abbey and O'Connell St all the way down and into the Phoenix Park, with the pace park starting around the Croppy Acre at Collins Barracks.
Splits were as follows.
Mile 1 - 9:58
Mile 2 - 9:36
Mile 3 - 9:14 (turned 0.7 into this mile to run back down the avenue)
Mile 4 - 8:48
Mile 5 - 10:06
I ran right up through the middle of the park so found it tough going to be honest as I generally always do running up Chesterfield Avenue...the little oul incline there is pretty tiring.
My warm up pace was a bit quicker than I would have liked on the first mile and then my second mile was a bit slower than I would have liked. I'm hoping to do the marathon in and around the 4 hour mark.
I started to enjoy the run a lot more when I turned on Chesterfield avenue around 2.7 miles into the pace section and ran back including cool down as far as the corner of Abbey St and Jervis....walked back to my hotel then afterwards.
Focused again a lot on form and trying to keep tension out of my shoulders....and even the odd dopey smile Dubgal!
I had my earphones on walking down to where my starting point was but took them off then.
All runs so far this week have been earphone free, haven't decided yet if I'll do the 10miles on Saturday yet earphone free but expect I will. It's going to be Saturday afternoon when I do that and it will be in the Phoenix Park also....I might run in my club t-shirt so if you see a fella with a blue St Brendan's AC t-shirt...this is me 2nd from left say hi! Try keep the pace more on the conservative side for now (thinking of the last mile here), one of the purposes of these sessions is to get the feel for marathon pace so no need to feel like you have to lash out a fast last mile.
For now, I know it's a big ask, but I would really recommend leaving the headphones at home. Well done on a week without :cool:
You will become super body aware without and your training will improve holistically and exponentially. Promise 0 -
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It wasnt me123 wrote: »I wear Brooks Glycerin 12 - a cushioned neutral shoe.
I have an old pair (No. 11) I use for shortish runs and when the weather is bad
and a newer shinier pair (No. 12) I now use for long runs and racing.
I need another pair though as the 12's wont last on their own until October and the 11's will be finished fairly soon.
Can anyone recommend a cushioned neutral shoe, that isn't Brooks? Just fancy trying something different and something a bit cheaper!!
I transitioned well from the Glycerin to Mizuno Wave Sayonara 2's, they have 3rd edition out now so the 2's can be got a bit cheaper:http://www.sportsshoes.com/product/miz1856/mizuno-wave-sayonara-2-running-shoes-~-ss15/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=price_comparison&utm_campaign=googlebase-uk&mkwid=sfTbLgjra&pcrid=56688047773&pkw=&pmt=&gclid=CLvgqvPzv8YCFeNe2wodv2IL6A#description
Would still recommend hitting Amphibian King, you can never have too many runners 0 -
Next time you're struggling, just remember that you got through tonight in similar circumstances. These are the character building runs you'll remember during the marathon itself when everything starts to hurt. Well done for sticking it out.
Ah yeah but not 'hurting everywhere from the knee down' :eek: surely?! Not too sure about pushing my poor novices through that sort of pain
Sure, HTFU if you're not feeling the love (or missing your headphones ) but there's a fine line between 'character building' and knowing when to pull back due to niggles and save it for another day. 0 -
limoncella wrote: »Curious which mizunos they recommended for you? I was recommended the nirvanas (overpronate) but they discountued them and I'm on my last pair I've had hoarded away. I can't decide if I like the wave paradox that they replaced them with...
Hiya,
It was the wave I was given.
Maybe you should head back for another assessment? Or try going somewhere different this time? I found the Mizuno Wave was really hard and rigid (coupled with my feet) where as the Asics are much softer. Not quite softer than pillows but a huge improvement. Hence my curiosity to look at more!
Sympathise with running in the heat. It's so tough but well done to everyone who braves it. It'll make you stronger. I've had non stop hayfever for over a month now so finding it killer!
Bought myself a new 1,000 watt blender today. Made some protein shakes today. (Just half a spoon of protein). Did a taste test and it was yum. Just made one with what I had in the house - chocolate mint protein, banana, soya milk, meridian peanut butter (small teaspoon), flaxseed, oats and small portion of almonds. I can't wait to try out more. Does anyone else make their own smoothies? (healthy ones)
Going to have it after the race tomorrow.
Resting today.
Dubsgal - for those of us who are running the half tomorrow in Clontarf, what plan do you recommend for the rest of the week?
(Good luck to anyone racing tomorrow ) 0 -
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I transitioned well from the Glycerin to Mizuno Wave Sayonara 2's, they have 3rd edition out now so the 2's can be got a bit cheaper:http://www.sportsshoes.com/product/miz1856/mizuno-wave-sayonara-2-running-shoes-~-ss15/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=price_comparison&utm_campaign=googlebase-uk&mkwid=sfTbLgjra&pcrid=56688047773&pkw=&pmt=&gclid=CLvgqvPzv8YCFeNe2wodv2IL6A#description
Would still recommend hitting Amphibian King, you can never have too many runners
Thanks for that, I appreciate the feedback. I like the look of those Mizuno's, the details of the shoe look like they could be a good fit for me but I'll definitely call into Amphibian King when I'm next in Dublin for an update on the gait analysis.0 -
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Dubsgal - for those of us who are running the half tomorrow in Clontarf, what plan do you recommend for the rest of the week?
(Good luck to anyone racing tomorrow )
Hope it's going well today
My preferred option would be:
Rest and recovery/easy paced runs for three to five days: listen to your body after that but no real need for PMP sessions this week. You could throw a few strides into the mix on Thursday or Friday instead and depending on how you feel, reschedule the lsr to Sunday, listening to your body all the time.
Bath with Epsom salts for everybody, lsrunners and racers tonight 0 -
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Well I took a rest day today (ok, I did a bootcamp class but no running) and yesterday I did a really nice 9k around the Phoenix Park concentrating on form and keeping it relaxed and slow which I actually found really hard. When I would get to any hills I found it hard not to push it really hard up them but instead kept at a 5.20 per km pace which is what I hope to do the DCM at so I guess that is what I should be doing lot's of now.
Best of luck to anyone doing Clontarf or Achill or any other runs/races tomorrow :-)
Hi FeenaM, thanks for the recipe Well done on slowing down and focusing on form. Have a look here for our recommended pacing guide. PMP runs are classed as a session and should only be targeted once a week. Pretty much all the other miles should be slower and easy. Trust us, that will get you over the line in your target time 0 -
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Round up for this week: HHN1 Wk2
Monday - 3ish miles @ 9.50ish/mi (my Garmin refused to connect so had to use the stopwatch)
Tuesday - 3.18 miles @ 9:48/mi + core
Wednesday - 3.83 miles @ 9:37/mi
Thursday - Rest
Friday - 7.19 miles @ 11:07/mi
Saturday - Weights and core session at gym.
Sunday - Rest
Still enjoying it but starting to worry that I'm not doing enough if that makes sense?
Hi Toulouse, well done, another week down
Buuuut....you are definitely doing enough - too much even :eek: Your easy runs during the week were at faster than PMP (your ball park time for now is 4:30 isn't it?) so technically you did three sessions....I'm not going to say anything except....sloooooooooooow down 0 -
eyeball kid wrote: »Got out nice and early this morning to do a 16km lsr + 1km cool down along the canal from Sallins. Its a lovely flat route by the canal with a nice mixture of road, trail and grass. The pain in my calf from the 10km Funlavin run last Sunday was easing throughout the week and today I could hardly even notice it during the run. Absolutely delighted with it and felt I could could have done another few km easily.
Am also very happy with the consistency...
Splits Time
1 06:21.7
2 06:30.2
3 06:31.1
4 06:39.7
5 06:34.1
6 06:19.8
7 06:30.1
8 06:12.1
9 06:30.5
10 06:21.5
11 06:30.6
12 06:24.1
13 06:21.1
14 06:24.3
15 06:25.1
16 06:28.5
Well done but oh crikey....*goes away to do some converting into real money*
Edit.....consistent, yes buuuuut too fast so slooooooow down
If your target is 4:30-4:45 = PMP of 6:19-6:38 so your lsr's should be 6:47 per km fastest for now.0 -
Well done but oh crikey....*goes away to do some converting into real money*
This might make you feel better.
1 11:25 /mi
2 11:30 /mi
3 11:37 /mi
4 11:46 /mi
5 11:59 /mi (had to stop to get stone out of my shoe!)
6 11:36 /mi
7 11:38 /mi
8 11:23 /mi
9 11:27 /mi
10 11:20 /mi
0.5 11:12 /mi
PMP is 10:18 or so.0 -
This might make you feel better.
1 11:25 /mi
2 11:30 /mi
3 11:37 /mi
4 11:46 /mi
5 11:59 /mi (had to stop to get stone out of my shoe!)
6 11:36 /mi
7 11:38 /mi
8 11:23 /mi
9 11:27 /mi
10 11:20 /mi
0.5 11:12 /mi
PMP is 10:18 or so.
Ah yes *heart rate returns to normal* v good
Edit: I do hope you didn't have any electronic devices in your Epsom salts bath :eek: *heart rate starts to climb again*0 -
This might make you feel better.
1 11:25 /mi
2 11:30 /mi
3 11:37 /mi
4 11:46 /mi
5 11:59 /mi (had to stop to get stone out of my shoe!)
6 11:36 /mi
7 11:38 /mi
8 11:23 /mi
9 11:27 /mi
10 11:20 /mi
0.5 11:12 /mi
PMP is 10:18 or so.Well done but oh crikey....*goes away to do some converting into real money*
Edit.....consistent, yes buuuuut too fast so slooooooow down
If your target is 4:30-4:45 = PMP of 6:19-6:38 so your lsr's should be 6:47 per km fastest for now.
Imperialists! :pac:
I was probably a bit conservative in that initial estimation. I did the half before under 2 hours so maybe I can train for 4:15 or so pace at the moment and see how it goes. If I find it too mush of a strain I could dial it back a bit.0 -
eyeball kid wrote: »Imperialists! :pac:
I was probably a bit conservative in that initial estimation. I did the half before under 2 hours so maybe I can train for 4:15 or so pace at the moment and see how it goes. If I find it too mush of a strain I could dial it back a bit.
That's grand but you should still target the more conservative side of things for now, first time marathoners generally end up with the more conservative target for one reason or another.
Two hour HM would give you a loose marathon conversion of 4:20 but:
- For you, firstly, training at the slower end of the spectrum won't hinder your fitness and there are so many other benefits to be gained from slowing down (injury, recovery, mitochondrial building etc).
- Secondly, the psychological element is hugely important. If you train and aim for 4:30 but on the day, you run 4:20, you will be Over. The. Moon. Seriously.
Whereas, if you train for 4:15 but *only* run 4:22 you will have *failed*. Difference between celebration or commiseration pints in Grattans and let's face it,that's what counts
So I'd recommend using a 4:30 target MP for now. Plenty of time to reassess in August and you'll still be ok.0 -
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