Tunisian Hotel Attack

Collie D · 28-06-2015 03:54PM

conorhal wrote: »

It's cheap and effective terrorism. We're likely to see more of it. My folks were talking to an American couple in Kerry a while back that explicitly said, 'we came here because Ireland feels like a safe destination', which could partly explain the bump in tourism numbers, there's a decreasing number of places in the world that western tourists feel safe visiting. Of course the government seem determined to undermine that. The same tourists got a bit lost looking for Kilmainham Jail and didn't feel very comfortable speaking too loudly in an American accent around the North Circular Rd. and were surprised by the numbers of Arabs in Dublin.

So a couple of prejudiced tourists...something...government..what?

Don't see many Arabs around Dublin myself...good number of people from Indian subcontinent all right but sure, they're all the one.

conorhal · 28-06-2015 04:00PM

Tony EH wrote: »

You're missing the point completely.

Let me elaborate for you.

If the "west" (i.e. America and Britain) go in guns blazing and "skinning" people they think are members of ISIS, an orgainisation that at best numbers about 50,000, the only thing that will create is MORE ISIS, NOT LESS ISIS.

The very reason the likes of ISIS and Al Quaeda exist is because of "western" interference in the Middle East over decades, before you were even born I'd wager, and more heavy handed actions by actors who have already proven themselves to engage in blunderous activities of most ridiculous nature will not solve or alleviate the situation one iota. It will simply act as yet another rallying call for people who think something should be done about the "west".

The fact is is that there is very little known about this group. Their numbers are relatively tiny, they don't advertise their battle colours in the plain light of day and they can hide among civilian populations, who they hold under sway with horrifying barbarism. That makes them an extremely difficult target to combat, as are all terrorist organisations, and the "all guns blazing" solution will end up with yet more innocent blood on the hands of the "west", who frankly haven't washed off the stain from the previous decade of dubious actions in the likes of Iraq, Syria and Libya.

In addition, ISIS aren't "trained fighters". They are a rag tag collection of people who's solidarity is a warped take on Islam. It doesn't take much training to hand some guy a machine gun and get them to shoot up unarmed civilians. They're not some crack military force with a clear strategy and a tactical doctrine outlined to achieve that strategy. They're a group who are willing to go to extremes that others aren't, who believe that their targets are everywhere and that makes them truly dangerous, much more so than other fanatical religious militias that have come and gone before them.

But, frankly, anyone calling for heavy handed actions by America and Britain against an indefinable group that can hide among civilians in civilian areas is only going to make the situation worse and in that respect they're part of the problem.

You're as fundamentally misunderstanding the root causes of the conflict every bit as badly as the Americans. Sure American military misadventure created opportunities in the chaos that followed the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, but that's far from the full story. The Arab spring was an internal movement that rose from the Arab street that was also a fertile breeding ground for extremism, so to is the ideological conflict between Sunni and Shia factions that's every bit as bad as that between Catholic's and Protestants in the wake of the reformation, Islam however has been fighting that sectarian war for hundreds of years.
Then you have to extremely regressive whabbist Saudis funding madrasas all over the world from Pakistan to Dublin.
The West need to treat this ideological battle as it did the cold war. The West must raise another Iron curtain to keep these terrorists at arms length, not set up a ferry service to land half of them in Italy.

The Black Oil · 28-06-2015 04:01PM

A disgusting attack. Keep travelling and booking holidays.

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Why has this got so little News coverage on the national broadcaster ?

Presumably since the names of the deceased have only emerged in the past 24-48 hours. Not surprising as it must have been difficult to identify people given the scale of the tragedy and the situation on the ground. I don't imagine people bring photo ID to the beach. Compared to the Berkeley situation, which was more straightforward and self-contained, I'd imagine communications with Tunisia, from the pov of the Department of Foreign Affairs, is probably more chaotic.

conorhal · 28-06-2015 04:08PM

Collie D wrote: »

So a couple of prejudiced tourists...something...government..what?

Don't see many Arabs around Dublin myself...good number of people from Indian subcontinent all right but sure, they're all the one.

You don't? Well I live in Dublin city centre and there are massive numbers here now. I don't know how you've not noticed (unless you're just being disingenuous) because it's hard miss some eejit dressed for the desert on cold and rainy Henry St.

As for those tourists, prejudice is something they were looking to avoid, so was getting machine gunned on a beach. I'd say sensible rather then prejudiced. It's not the best of ideas to wander around even western cities with largely Islamic areas as a yank.

Sheep Lover · 28-06-2015 04:11PM

Collie D wrote: »

So a couple of prejudiced tourists...something...government..what?

Don't see many Arabs around Dublin myself...good number of people from Indian subcontinent all right but sure, they're all the one.

You stopped each and every one to ask them of their ethnical background too did you? Fair play, that takes commitment.

bodice ripper · 28-06-2015 04:15PM

conorhal wrote: »

You don't? Well I live in Dublin city centre and there are massive numbers here now. I don't know how you've not noticed (unless you're just being disingenuous) because it's hard miss some eejit dressed for the desert on cold and rainy Henry St.

As for those tourists, prejudice is something they were looking to avoid, so was getting machine gunned on a beach. I'd say sensible rather then prejudiced. It's not the best of ideas to wander around even western cities with largely Islamic areas as a yank.

The one and only time I felt unsafe with my accent was on O'Connell Street, when that huge demonstration against the war in Iraq was on. And even then, barely.

Collie D · 28-06-2015 04:17PM

Sheep Lover wrote: »

You stopped each and every one to ask them of their ethnical background too did you? Fair play, that takes commitment.

No but one can tell the difference between an Arab and a Pakistani or Bangladeshi for example.

Rabo Karabekian · 28-06-2015 04:21PM

conorhal wrote: »

You're as fundamentally misunderstanding the root causes of the conflict every bit as badly as the Americans. Sure American military misadventure created opportunities in the chaos that followed the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, but that's far from the full story.

All of the root causes you mention are true, but it's in a power vacuum where they come to the fore. You can see this with the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 80s and Iraq after the US invasion in the 2003.

conorhal wrote: »

You don't? Well I live in Dublin city centre and there are massive numbers here now. I don't know how you've not noticed (unless you're just being disingenuous) because it's hard miss some eejit dressed for the desert on cold and rainy Henry St.

'Arabs' are hardly the biggest immigrant population that we have in Dublin, so I would say that it's not the poster you were responding to that is disingenuous.

conorhal · 28-06-2015 04:23PM

Collie D wrote: »

No but one can tell the difference between an Arab and a Pakistani or Bangladeshi for example.

Well so can I. Of course there is that one other thing that all those groups you mention have in common.........

Collie D · 28-06-2015 04:23PM

conorhal wrote: »

You don't? Well I live in Dublin city centre and there are massive numbers here now. I don't know how you've not noticed (unless you're just being disingenuous) because it's hard miss some eejit dressed for the desert on cold and rainy Henry St.

As for those tourists, prejudice is something they were looking to avoid, so was getting machine gunned on a beach. I'd say sensible rather then prejudiced. It's not the best of ideas to wander around even western cities with largely Islamic areas as a yank.

Nah, just sounds paranoid and prejudiced to me. Infinitely more likely to be mugged by a junkie than attacked by a terrorist on the NCR. Or be struck by a bus for that matter

Collie D · 28-06-2015 04:25PM

conorhal wrote: »

Well so can I. Of course there is that one other thing that all groups those have in common.........

Go on. Let me guess "I won't say it because I'll be called a racist?"

Sheep Lover · 28-06-2015 04:27PM

Collie D wrote: »

No but one can tell the difference between an Arab and a Pakistani or Bangladeshi for example.

Really can one? And how does one tell the difference would you mind explaining?

conorhal · 28-06-2015 04:28PM

Collie D wrote: »

Go on. Let me guess "I won't say it because I'll be called a racist?"

Or because it's self evident? Since when was Islam a race pray tell?

Collie D · 28-06-2015 04:33PM

conorhal wrote: »

Or because it's self evident? Since when was Islam a race pray tell?

If it was self evident I wouldn't ask. I'm not getting into the definition of race thing. So what was it?

conorhal · 28-06-2015 04:37PM

Collie D wrote: »

If it was self evident I wouldn't ask. I'm not getting into the definition of race thing. So what was it?

What is what? Or is it not self evident that Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Gulf state arabs are from predominantly Muslim countries. We should be slamming to door to immigration from majority muslim nations, it's not worked out well for a single western nation. As with communist nations during the cold war, they need to kept firmly on their side of the iron curtain.

JustTheOne · 28-06-2015 04:38PM

conorhal wrote: »

What is what? Or is it not self evident that Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Gulf state arabs are Muslim countries. We should be slamming to door to immigration form majority muslim nations, it's not worked out well for a single western nation. As with communist nations during the cold war, they need to kept firmly on their side of the iron curtain.

Agree, I think for the time being enough is enough no more.

We are too small a nation for a huge influx.

Collie D · 28-06-2015 04:43PM

Sheep Lover wrote: »

Really can one? And how does one tell the difference would you mind explaining?

It's not an exact science and I'm sure there are other traits but skin colour is different. Similar to how most of the time you could pick a Mediterranean European from a group of Irish people.

Has one got any more snotty posts or questions? I'll be here for a while

darkpagandeath · 28-06-2015 04:45PM

Collie D wrote: »

It's not an exact science and I'm sure there are other traits but skin colour is different. Similar to how most of the time you could pick a Mediterranean European from a group of Irish people.

Has one got any more snotty posts or questions? I'll be here for a while

Cloths attitude accents pretty easy. Most people here struggle as they think most Indian restaurants are Indian. They are not.

Collie D · 28-06-2015 04:47PM

conorhal wrote: »

What is what? Or is it not self evident that Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Gulf state arabs are from predominantly Muslim countries. We should be slamming to door to immigration from majority muslim nations, it's not worked out well for a single western nation. As with communist nations during the cold war, they need to kept firmly on their side of the iron curtain.

Fair enough. You sounded like you were implying something else. I stand corrected. Why couldn't you just say Muslim though. Muslim and Arab are not necessarily the same thing. I have two Muslim friends, neither of whom are Arabs.

Still disagree with the rest of your posts.

conorhal · 28-06-2015 04:59PM

Collie D wrote: »

Fair enough. You sounded like you were implying something else. I stand corrected. Why couldn't you just say Muslim though. Muslim and Arab are not necessarily the same thing. I have two Muslim friends, neither of whom are Arabs.

Still disagree with the rest of your posts.

Well then your friends are probably Malaysian or from the Balkans or somewhere and not from nations I'd blacklist, even though they too have problems with Islamist groups, Pakistan is not an Arab nation either, but it is at the nexus of Islamist violence and we should not give a single visa to Pakistani nationals as far as I'm concerned. At the height of the cold war we weren't allowing in thousands of Russians or giving then carte blanche to set up centres for the advancement of Communism in our capital. It's a disgrace that we have the European centre for fatwa research here in Dublin.
When you're fighting an ideological war you don't let the enemy set up it's propaganda HQ in your back yard and let the enemies of the West heavily fund it.

Sheep Lover · 28-06-2015 05:55PM

Collie D wrote: »

It's not an exact sciencel

You're telling me. Your method is based around getting a Dulux colour chart out and trying to determine which shade of brown they are...

Nodin · 28-06-2015 07:12PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Cloths attitude accents pretty easy. Most people here struggle as they think most Indian restaurants are Indian. They are not.

Bangladeshi run, or so I've been told.

Jinonatron · 28-06-2015 08:35PM

As someone living in Germany I am quite concerned about the likely hood of an attack here. Not really sure how to stop it though. Surely at some stage they will realise that Religion is dumb.

Nodin · 28-06-2015 08:42PM

Jinonatron wrote: »

As someone living in Germany I am quite concerned about the likely hood of an attack here. Not really sure how to stop it though. Surely at some stage they will realise that Religion is dumb.

The problem is that it only takes one gobshite. Even if every muslim of every sect in Germany disavowed their faith tomorrow there'd be the risk of some non-muslim converting and then deciding that the IS way is the path to follow.

Jinonatron · 28-06-2015 08:49PM

Nodin wrote: »

The problem is that it only takes one gobshite. Even if every muslim of every sect in Germany disavowed their faith tomorrow there'd be the risk of some non-muslim converting and then deciding that the IS way is the path to follow.

Indeed. However there are an awful lot of extremists in Germany who won't abandon their fate any time soon. So even if we had to watch out for one mad man it would be hard. However there is a lot more than 1 crazy in this country. I think it is a matter of when and not if. :eek: These attacks are hard to stop and this radical Islam thing is getting out of control in my opinion.

There is a huge Turkish population here. I think around 3 million people are turkish or have turkish parents. While a lot of them are nice decent people and not crazy Islam fanatics with that large population there is bound to be a few rotten apples who will be egged on by the attacks in Tunisia, Kuwait, France and Charlie Hebdo. Islamophobia is on the rise in Germany too and it is causing a huge rise in the number of Skin Head groups such as Pegida. With the crisis in the mediterranean and the refugees etc I can only see this getting worse and we are coming to a boiling point quite soon.

bb1234567 · 28-06-2015 09:31PM

30 british citizens confirmed dead in the attack.
3 Irish.
One belgian and one german.
3 others of unidentified nationality.
Heavy blow for Britain, I hate to take away from the awfulness of the situation for the victims but it must be a very scary time to be a muslim in Britain or the rest of Europe with all these recent attacks

Streetwalker · 28-06-2015 10:43PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

30 british citizens confirmed dead in the attack.
3 Irish.
One belgian and one german.
3 others of unidentified nationality.
Heavy blow for Britain, I hate to take away from the awfulness of the situation for the victims but it must be a very scary time to be a muslim in Britain or the rest of Europe with all these recent attacks

You'll always get the few knuckle draggers painting everyone with the same brush but overall I think people understand 99.99% of Muslims are just normal peace loving family folk.

bilston · 28-06-2015 11:06PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

30 british citizens confirmed dead in the attack.
3 Irish.
One belgian and one german.
3 others of unidentified nationality.
Heavy blow for Britain, I hate to take away from the awfulness of the situation for the victims but it must be a very scary time to be a muslim in Britain or the rest of Europe with all these recent attacks

Despite what some may try and tell you, Britain is about as tolerant a country as you'll find in Europe. Obviously you can never rule out sporadic reprisals but I'd imagine Muslims will feel no more or less safe in the UK after the attack in Tunisia.

Speaking of a response I wonder what Britain will do in terms of its involvement in the fight against IS now. It hasn't been fully engaged up to now militarily in comparison to some. I wonder if that will change now. I just hope that if they do strike back they just don't do it for the sake of it. It needs to have an actual detrimental effect in IS otherwise they should refrain from a military response altogether.

Glebee · 29-06-2015 12:20AM

Sorry if I missed this but has Edna Kenny come out over the weekend condening the murder of three Irish citizens and condoning the terrorist attacks on Tunisa as David Cameron has??? What would happen if three Muslim extremist were executed on grafton St ???

frostyjacks · 29-06-2015 12:24AM

Glebee wrote: »

Sorry if I missed this but has Edna Kenny come out over the weekend condening the murder of three Irish citizens and condoning the terrorist attacks on Tunisa as David Cameron has???

Haven't heard a peep from him. The story's nearly dropped off the Indo site as well.

Tunisian Hotel Attack

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