Big Brother UK 2015 Use spoiler tags, mod warning post #1 & 3037

amdublin · 25-06-2015 07:18AM

Tbh I completely understand why brian reacted the way he did. Helen and Marc did what they do - needling and needling until they get a reaction. And then when they get a reaction they push amd provoke some more by saying he looks like a rapist and is a psycho.

There is something very psychologically mean and nasty about the words they use and the repetitive nature of their needling "you're a psycho, you're a psycho. You're a psycho"
I know how I'd feel and react if I was provoked like that - very upset and emotionally unjointed, god knows what I could say back to that.

As for people saying it's ok because she didn't say he was a rapist just said he looked like one. What a cop out. Yes I guess you could (vaguely) argue that saying he is one is worse, but that does not take away to say someone looks like a rapist (particularly when you have provoked and pushed him to act a certain way) is a pretty dispicable thing to do.

skipper_G · 25-06-2015 07:29AM

deco nate wrote: »

Yer one in the black behind rylan is a fine thing:)

She was the only good thing on BOTS last night

skipper_G · 25-06-2015 07:37AM

Necrominus wrote: »

You see, this is what annoys me now. Brian is out being lauded as a hero by everyone. What Helen said was completely out of line, no dispute. But he's been an absolute bell-end in there, playing the puppet master for the clique and been the source of most of the tension due to his outbursts.

Hear Hear! 100% yes, absolutely unequivocally agree. He wanted to be portrayed as the White Knight, the hero, saviour to the normal people. He needed the confrontation just as much, without it he couldn't play the hero.
Although Helen's comments were a bit much, I didn't see anything wrong with Marc's

skipper_G · 25-06-2015 07:42AM

Lemlin wrote: »

I also disliked Chloe this evening. I don't think Marc has been overly mean to her but she was twisting the knife again this evening. She's a lot more cunning than she lets on.

I must have missed that while cursing Brian the attention whore, what did she say ?

Necro · 25-06-2015 08:02AM

amdublin wrote:

Tbh I completely understand why brian reacted the way he did. Helen and Marc did what they do - needling and needling until they get a reaction. And then when they get a reaction they push amd provoke some more by saying he looks like a rapist and is a psycho.

You see I get it with Helen. She went too far. But what is this bundling Marc in with her all the time? Brian has called Marc every name under the sun in the past few days (behind his back) and when challenged about repeatedly lying to other HMs about Marc, his only reaction was to shout some more and run for the diary room to avoid being shown up.
Brian describes Marc as pond scum, evil, a scumbag. No warning, nothing. Marc calls Brian out intelligently, siding with him about Helen's OTT comments but stating his reasoning for winding him up, Brian goes mental (psychotic behaviour, imo) - Marc calls him a psycho - boom, warning for Marc. That's not a level playing field. But then, when has it ever been that way in BB!

tipptom · 25-06-2015 08:42AM

Peist2007 wrote: »

I think people's general opinions of Helen are clouding their judgement of this particular instance. Helen should not have said what she said, a fact she acknowledged in her conversation with Danny.

But....she didnt say Brian was a rapist. She said he looked like a rapist. And there is a crucial difference. Calling someone a rapist is a bad bad thing to say. Saying someone looks like a rapist is not the same as Helen was clearly referring to Brian's aggressive demeanour, which another poster has highlighted.

Let it also be emphasised that the "rapist/murderer" comment came during Brian's second attempt to hurl abuse at Helen, during which time she sat there and didnt move. Whether what Brian said was correct or not, he was the aggressor in the conversation and Helen was merely defending herself.

I could be wrong but i also picked it up that Brian said to Mark that he thought both Helen and Mark were "pond scum". His mini rant at Mark was all about Mark and Helen. Again, all said prior to the comment that has people very riled on this thread.

Tonight's drama was Brian's fault. A pathetic display of misplaced anger. Helen is far from a nice person but Brian reacted way OTT from start to finish. He lied openly a couple of times which Mark is correct to call him out on. And he's a creep. Good riddance.

Exactly what she said,but BB keeps allowing people to say something she has not said at all.

dark crystal · 25-06-2015 08:58AM

amdublin wrote: »

Tbh I completely understand why brian reacted the way he did. Helen and Marc did what they do - needling and needling until they get a reaction. And then when they get a reaction they push amd provoke some more by saying he looks like a rapist and is a psycho.

There is something very psychologically mean and nasty about the words they use and the repetitive nature of their needling "you're a psycho, you're a psycho. You're a psycho"
I know how I'd feel and react if I was provoked like that - very upset and emotionally unjointed, god knows what I could say back to that.

As for people saying it's ok because she didn't say he was a rapist just said he looked like one. What a cop out. Yes I guess you could (vaguely) argue that saying he is one is worse, but that does not take away to say someone looks like a rapist (particularly when you have provoked and pushed him to act a certain way) is a pretty dispicable thing to do.

This is it in a nutshell. Needling.

Both Helen and Marc last night admitted they do it for a reaction. Helen said something like 'playing right into my hands' a number of times during the argument and Marc admitted he deliberately antagonised the guy (although he was at pains to point out it was just him doing it, not Helen). They enjoy provoking and then accuse the other person of looking for attention when they bite back. It's an insidious tactic and I can't understand why people buy into their act. It's horrible.

I don't see Brian as a hero at all, but he's loyal, wears his heart on his sleeve and he could see exactly what Helen and Marc were doing last night. They do tag team (watch them both shoot up at the same time during last night's task), despite Marc's protestations otherwise. He was also right when he said Marc said he would go with the majority when Helen and Nikki were nominating Jade. He may not have nominated her himself per se, but he didn't have to agree with Helen and Nikki and could easily have saved her. It was nomination by proxy.

Eyepatch · 25-06-2015 09:00AM

Originally Posted by Lemlin

I also disliked Chloe this evening. I don't think Marc has been overly mean to her but she was twisting the knife again this evening. She's a lot more cunning than she lets on.

(Edited to Bold by me!)

Exactly my feeling!

daisybelle2008 · 25-06-2015 09:07AM

It'll be interesting to see how Marc's closeness with Helen will affect his chance of winning. I think it is between him and Joel at the moment, but he could be sabotaging his chances. There is no real stand out winner at the moment, so a few bad/good edits could decide who stays or goes.

dark crystal · 25-06-2015 09:15AM

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see how Marc's closeness with Helen will affect his chance of winning. I think it is between him and Joel at the moment, but he could be sabotaging his chances. There is no real stand out winner at the moment, so a few bad/good edits could decide who stays or goes.

I don't think Marc is a bad guy, but I do think Helen brings out the worst in him. After Victor came in, he seemed to take note of his advice, but that's since gone down the drain and the two of them are like Siamese twins again. He got a terrible edit last night and it must surely be affecting his chances.

I really hope they get rid of Helen and Nikki this Friday as they add nothing but negativity and drama to the house. I do think it's unfair that they get a second chance when this year's HMs are left playing second fiddle.

tipptom · 25-06-2015 09:39AM

For me Marc will go down in my estimation if he abandon's Helen to the the Gangsta one but I also see how it will hurt his chances if he does not cut her loose.

Necro · 25-06-2015 09:49AM

dark crystal wrote:

I really hope they get rid of Helen and Nikki this Friday as they add nothing but negativity and drama to the house. I do think it's unfair that they get a second chance when this year's HMs are left playing second fiddle.

I hate to say this, but with yesterday's introduction, I'd expect the three of them there for another week. Producers are deliberately engineering this type of conflict with tasks like last night - that contain loaded questions designed to cause conflict. I get that it's part of the game but the worst did genuinely seem to be behind the different groups (apart from Nikki, and I do believe that was all an act)
Hell, even Harry and Marc had been on speaking terms that previous evening!

drugstore cowboy · 25-06-2015 09:56AM

Great entertainment last night!

dark crystal · 25-06-2015 10:01AM

Necrominus wrote: »

I hate to say this, but with yesterday's introduction, I'd expect the three of them there for another week. Producers are deliberately engineering this type of conflict with tasks like last night - that contain loaded questions designed to cause conflict. I get that it's part of the game but the worst did genuinely seem to be behind the different groups (apart from Nikki, and I do believe that was all an act)
Hell, even Harry and Marc had been on speaking terms that previous evening!

Oh God, I hope you're wrong. The manufactured conflict is so boring now at this stage. This year's HMs must feel like the forgotten side salad stuck wilting beside Helen and Nikki's main course.

Has it been announced how long the new introduction will be sticking around for?

Necro · 25-06-2015 10:08AM

dark crystal wrote:

Oh God, I hope you're wrong. The manufactured conflict is so boring now at this stage. This year's HMs must feel like the forgotten side salad stuck wilting beside Helen and Nikki's main course.

Has it been announced how long the new introduction will be sticking around for?

I don't think so, but it's hard to see her leaving tomorrow. Especially if it kicks off with Helen! I hope I'm wrong too!

Crimsonforce · 25-06-2015 10:44AM

Marc doesn't have to win outright. He's won already as the **** stirrer.
He is the one that will full colum inches on the outside...
people remember Victor for being aggressive,they will know Marc in 5 years time and he will still be getting appearance fees

mdwexford · 25-06-2015 10:54AM

Helen is excellent.

Hilarious the way she makes Brian hate her so much. He really wanted to hit her so badly last night.

I liked him before the last few days but he's coming across as a right knob.
Fawning over Jade, starting arguments and getting so wound up over minor things.

Peist2007 · 25-06-2015 10:54AM

amdublin wrote: »

As for people saying it's ok because she didn't say he was a rapist just said he looked like one. What a cop out. Yes I guess you could (vaguely) argue that saying he is one is worse, but that does not take away to say someone looks like a rapist (particularly when you have provoked and pushed him to act a certain way) is a pretty dispicable thing to do.

That was me and it isnt a cop out. There is a massive difference in terms of context between the two comments. Brian was almost frothing at the mouth and that is where the comment "You look like a rapist" came from. How is it a cop out? It is not a vague argument. It is basic English. A vague argument would be yours if i'm honest. Helen didnt start the fight and she reacted to some pretty open aggression from Brian.

I never said it was nice but it is being portrayed here almost that Helen stood up and called Brian a rapist when, in fact, Brian went off on another angry frothy rant calling Helen names and she responded in the manner she did. She was responding to an attack, not instigating it.

eviltwin · 25-06-2015 10:57AM

Crimsonforce wrote: »

Marc doesn't have to win outright. He's won already as the **** stirrer.
He is the one that will full colum inches on the outside...
people remember Victor for being aggressive,they will know Marc in 5 years time and he will still be getting appearance fees

Marc will be tabloid fodder for a few weeks, if he's hoping to launch a career a la Brian Dowling or Alison Hammond he's fooling himself. He might drum up a bit of business for his stripping but he's too much of a loose cannon.

MythicalMadMan · 25-06-2015 10:58AM

Wicklow Brave wrote: »

I find it remarkable how composed Helen is during these spats. I had never heard of her until she entered the house this year and everyone seemed to hate her. I googled her out of interest and found out that she had a kid at 16, got money off a loan shark, fell into debt and a friend suggested to her to become a prostitute. Usually when a woman becomes a prostitute it's because they are either forced into it or it's the only viable option for them. The dismissive remarks about her that appear on this forum and BOTS etc. about her being a 'whore', and that because she was a prostitute she basically deserves no respect are equally as bad if not worse than anything Helen has done while in the house. When she came into the public spotlight over the situation with Wayne Rooney, she was actually physically assaulted by a group of men that recognised her. Now I have no idea what it's like to be a prostitute and what Helen and others like her would have gone through nor am I condoning what she said to Brian about looking like a rapist and a murderer but I'd imagine that Helen having the life experience that she has, it's gone a long way to, let's say shaping her world view and the person she is today. If for some unforsaken reason Ireland is cast into war with the UK as an ally I would feel safer in the knowledge that someone like Helen Wood is by my side. She is one tough mother******.

This is the best laugh Ive read in a long time, everyone has a back story just cause hers is bad doesnt give her a right to say whatever she wants.
You found two sobs stories about her I'm sure you found an awfull lot more on the flip side.

But your line if we went the war was brilliantly bizzare, tabloid-esq but so bad a tabloid wouldnt even use it.

If a couch warrior and a keyboard warrior are in the frontline defending us from whatever imaginary invasion you have dreamt up it'd be best just to give up I'd say.

Thanks for the laugh, cheered me right up today.

MythicalMadMan · 25-06-2015 11:05AM

Peist2007 wrote: »

That was me and it isnt a cop out. There is a massive difference in terms of context between the two comments. Brian was almost frothing at the mouth and that is where the comment "You look like a rapist" came from. How is it a cop out? It is not a vague argument. It is basic English. A vague argument would be yours if i'm honest. Helen didnt start the fight and she reacted to some pretty open aggression from Brian.

I never said it was nice but it is being portrayed here almost that Helen stood up and called Brian a rapist when, in fact, Brian went off on another angry frothy rant calling Helen names and she responded in the manner she did. She was responding to an attack, not instigating it.

Peist you LOOK LIKE you haven't a clue what your talking about.

Wicklow Brave · 25-06-2015 11:14AM

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

This is the best laugh Ive read in a long time, everyone has a back story just cause hers is bad doesnt give her a right to say whatever she wants.
You found two sobs stories about her I'm sure you found an awfull lot more on the flip side.

But your line if we went the war was brilliantly bizzare, tabloid-esq but so bad a tabloid wouldnt even use it.

If a couch warrior and a keyboard warrior are in the frontline defending us from whatever imaginary invasion you have dreamt up it'd be best just to give up I'd say.

Thanks for the laugh, cheered me right up today.

It was hyperbole, I hardly meant it literally?! Do you take everything you read literally? I wasn't condoning her actions, merely pointing out why she is the person she is. If you can't empathise with someone for being physically assaulted and consider it a 'sob story' (?!) then that's your own issue.

And yes, she does have the right to say whatever she wants unless it's defamatory. It's called free speech.

eviltwin · 25-06-2015 11:18AM

Wicklow Brave wrote: »

It was hyperbole, I hardly meant it literally?! Do you take everything you read literally? I wasn't condoning her actions, merely pointing out why she is the person she is. If you can't empathise with someone for being physically assaulted and consider it a 'sob story' (?!) then that's your own issue.

And yes, she does have the right to say whatever she wants unless it's defamatory. It's called free speech.

So she's had a tough life, join the club. She has a choice in how she behaves. If she let the walls down and just tried being a bit nicer she would be a really nice person. She's so defensive, it's a shame she won't be herself.

dark crystal · 25-06-2015 11:19AM

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

This is the best laugh Ive read in a long time, everyone has a back story just cause hers is bad doesnt give her a right to say whatever she wants.
You found two sobs stories about her I'm sure you found an awfull lot more on the flip side.

But your line if we went the war was brilliantly bizzare, tabloid-esq but so bad a tabloid wouldnt even use it.

If a couch warrior and a keyboard warrior are in the frontline defending us from whatever imaginary invasion you have dreamt up it'd be best just to give up I'd say.

Thanks for the laugh, cheered me right up today.

Exactly. It takes a real hero to sell your sleazy story to the tabloids, no matter whose family it hurts - including your own. That's real brave.

The real heroes are the ones who fought for free speech, not the ones who abuse that right for a living.

MythicalMadMan · 25-06-2015 11:22AM

Wicklow Brave wrote: »

It was hyperbole, I hardly meant it literally?! Do you take everything you read literally? I wasn't condoning her actions, merely pointing out why she is the person she is. If you can't empathise with someone for being physically assaulted and consider it a 'sob story' (?!) then that's your own issue.

And yes, she does have the right to say whatever she wants unless it's defamatory. It's called free speech.

Thats why I said it made me laugh if I thought you were serious I probably wouldnt have responded.
Your picking who you empathize with most likelt becuase you see more traits of yourselve in Helen then you do of others in the house.
I've plenty of issues dont we all but giving my limited empathy to Helen Wood I wouldnt class as one.

Pretty sure saying someone looks like a murderer and a rapist is defamatory but I'm no solicitor.

Peist2007 · 25-06-2015 11:27AM

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Peist you LOOK LIKE you haven't a clue what your talking about.

Er ok. Thanks for the rebuttal.

Peist2007 · 25-06-2015 11:31AM

MythicalMadMan wrote: »

Pretty sure saying someone looks like a murderer and a rapist is defamatory but I'm no solicitor.

I am a Solicitor and i wouldnt be advising you to go into the High Court with the above case. Not in a million years. But hey, you're the oracle here

Crimsonforce · 25-06-2015 11:33AM

Peist2007 wrote: »

I am a Solicitor and i wouldnt be advising you to go into the High Court with the above case. Not in a million years. But hey, you're the oracle here

Shouldn't you be in court at his time or are you charging this hour to a client?

Wicklow Brave · 25-06-2015 11:34AM

eviltwin wrote: »

So she's had a tough life, join the club. She has a choice in how she behaves. If she let the walls down and just tried being a bit nicer she would be a really nice person. She's so defensive, it's a shame she won't be herself.

You really aren't understanding my point.

'Join the club'? Unless you've been forced into prostitution due to financial difficulties and have suffered an unprovoked attack then we're not really not talking about the same 'club' here are we?

I agree with you on your other points. Of course she has a choice in how she behaves and it is a shame she's so defensive. However, unless you have been in her situation than you can't really comment on how easy it should be for her not to be so defensive and make better choices on how she acts. She is (and I hate this term) a product of her environment where she was treated like a commodity and like dirt. Others would be able to get over that and move on and not be so bitter about it. She can't.

I don't think it's necessary to demonise her. There are far, far worse people out there.

MythicalMadMan · 25-06-2015 11:35AM

Peist2007 wrote: »

Er ok. Thanks for the rebuttal.

It was just a joke just a bit of banter buddy, it wasnt a rebuttal of any sort.

I find it best for myself not to get into discussions with people who muddy the waters over the 3% difference in calling someone rapist or saying they look like one.
While glossing over the main point of the discussion.

Edit. AH just saw you said your a solicitor explains a lot ty for the info about not going into the high court over Helen calling Brian something on big brother. TBF it hadnt crossed my mind but I do appreciate it none the less

Big Brother UK 2015 **Use spoiler tags, mod warning post #1 & 3037**

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Big Brother UK 2015 Use spoiler tags, mod warning post #1 & 3037