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The South Will (not) Rise Again?

24567

Comments

  • #32
    swimming in a sea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 937 ✭✭✭swimming in a sea


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Ok honest question coming in here - by "south" do people mean Cork or Texas?

    I think when Americans say the south they are not referring to Texas, as Texas is a whole other basket case of lunatics. Texas has money the rest of the southern states are poor.


  • #33
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    swimming in a sea wrote: »
    I think when Americans say the south they are not referring to Texas, as Texas is a whole other basket case of lunatics. Texas has money the rest of the southern states are poor.

    Hmm, well in relation to the original question by "south" people are referring to the southern or 'bible belt' states. Some parts of Texas have money but others are extremely poor. Brownsville, has or had up until very recently the highest poverty rate in the USA. I wouldn't agree that the people of Texas are lunatics either. The people I know there would go out of their way to help you. They are different to the rest of the USA but that's not necessarily a bad thing.


  • #34
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Will loads of rednecks be forced to respray their Dodge Chargers?


  • #35
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    They need stricter controls on who can buy these types of flags. Background checks and the like.


  • #36
    Egginacup
    Site Banned Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭Egginacup


    wendell borton wrote: »
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/24/the-history-of-the-unkillable-confederate-flag.html
    In the aftermath of the sick shooting church goers in S. Carolina there is a major backlash against the flag of the confederacy with major retailers withdrawing it from sale and moves to remove it from state capitol buildings by republican governors.
    This stinks to me of hypocritical political expediency since the republicans have maintained a stranglehold on political power by demagoguing to the south with gun control and puplic healthcare issues being prime examples which had a lot more to blame for the killings than a flag.
    Why not ban the US altogether flag, since it was founded by rich white slave owners and perpetrated genocide through manifest destiny.

    The Confederate Flag stands for racism, pure and simple. The Confederacy was an unmitigated hell-hole for black people and people who advocate brandishing that ugly banner are revolting. They yammer on about a Southern "identity" or some other mealy-mouthed nonsense but it's just about glorifying segregation, beatings and lynchings of blacks. There is no state or province in Germany that flies the Swastika banner as testament to a German "identity" or some such. There ought not be in the US either.


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  • #37
    Muckracker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭Muckracker


    Egginacup wrote: »
    The Confederate Flag stands for racism, pure and simple. The Confederacy was an unmitigated hell-hole for black people and people who advocate brandishing that ugly banner are revolting. They yammer on about a Southern "identity" or some other mealy-mouthed nonsense but it's just about glorifying segregation, beatings and lynchings of blacks. There is no state or province in Germany that flies the Swastika banner as testament to a German "identity" or some such. There ought not be in the US either.

    Ha ha go to the South with that attitude and see how you get on. Personally I think it's far more complicated that 'durr only stupid rednecks fly that flag'. It is a symbol of heritage for many people. How many people actually owned slaves in the South? What about blacks and Indians who owned slaves? The story is more complicated than it first seems


  • #38
    falan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭falan


    Deleted User wrote:
    I'd say most people outside Ireland don't think of it at all.


    Wrong. I visit England all the time and they think it is all about religion. On the first day I met my ex English girlfriend s mother, she asked me was I Catholic or protestant and would I ever see any of the troubles or riots. I live in rural county Limerick. She was genuinely curious


  • #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Menas wrote: »
    On opening their final song of the set the singer said that 'this song is for all of you who dont accept some guy in a suit from new york tellin us how do live our lives'. The band fired up 'Sweet Home Alabama' while the Dixie flag was lowered on the wall behind the band. The crowd loved it...lots of Yee Haws...throwing of hats in the air.

    The song was allegedly written as a response to Neil Young's "Southern Man". While there was no issue between Young and Lynyrd Skynyrd many fans of both have read a lot into both songs about the divide between the two cultures in the States. They have assumed an almost anthemic status.

    As for the flag, it's a hard one to call. I mean, clearly the South was wrong. But on the other hand, it had some attractive personalities, from the nobility of Robert E. Lee to the brilliance of Stonewall Jackson, contrasting with the likes of McLellan and Grant, the vindictiveness of Sherman and so on. It's hard to know, should the flag that they stood for (and that's even putting it at it's highest point, of course it wasn't strictly speaking "the flag of the Confederacy", but one of them) be ditched because of our take on matters now? I think I would marginally favour doing so, if it causes offence and the offence is genuine, I think that outweighs its value.


  • #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    falan wrote: »
    Wrong. I visit England all the time and they think it is all about religion. On the first day I met my ex English girlfriend s mother, she asked me was I Catholic or protestant and would I ever see any of the troubles or riots. I live in rural county Limerick. She was genuinely curious

    Any person I ever spoke to about it, from England or anywhere, spoke of it in terms of Ireland, Irish bombers, campaigns by Irish terrorists and so on. They never referred to the Guildford attacks, Birmingham, Hyde Park and so on as "Catholic attacks" or the perpetrators as "Catholic bombers". Ever.

    I guess we just know different people.


  • #41
    Muckracker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 75 ✭✭Muckracker


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The song was allegedly written as a response to Neil Young's "Southern Man". While there was no issue between Young and Lynyrd Skynyrd many fans of both have read a lot into both songs about the divide between the two cultures in the States. They have assumed an almost anthemic status.

    As for the flag, it's a hard one to call. I mean, clearly the South was wrong. But on the other hand, it had some attractive personalities, from the nobility of Robert E. Lee to the brilliance of Stonewall Jackson, contrasting with the likes of McLellan and Grant, the vindictiveness of Sherman and so on. It's hard to know, should the flag that they stood for be ditched because of our take on matters now? I think I would marginally favour doing so, if it causes offence and the offence is genuine, I think that outweighs its value.

    Good point about Sherman. One of the reasons Southerners hate Yanks so much is because of the devastation caused by Sherman.


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  • #42
    Herb Powell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,097 ✭✭✭Herb Powell


    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the talk of "banning" it not exactly a ban? I mean, I thought it was just that they were just planning on possibly removing it from state/government buildings. Which seems fair enough to be honest.

    We of all people should know how flegs can be more trouble than they're worth, especially when mixed with a portion of idiots.


  • #43
    Merces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭Merces


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Is it?

    He said everyone thinks the North was Catholic v Protestant. I wouldn't say that at all. I'd say everyone thinks it was Loyalist/Unionist v Nationalist/Republican. The religion was really only representative, usually, of where people stood in that respect, but it was often wrong.

    Similarly the US Civil War. Of course African Americans fought for the Confederacy. And slave owners fought for the Union. It wasn't simply about slavery. There were a host of other reasons, economics, culture, secession, the US had become 2 separate societies, a division which is still evident today...without the slavery.

    Economic and cultural reasons...like an economy and culture based on slavery?


  • #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Merces wrote: »
    Economic and cultural reasons...like an economy and culture based on slavery?

    Well they can't be disentangled. But economies based on industrialised urban areas in the North versus a much more rural and agricultural focus in the South. Of course with agriculture, particularly with cotton, came slavery.


  • #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Muckracker wrote: »
    Good point about Sherman. One of the reasons Southerners hate Yanks so much is because of the devastation caused by Sherman.

    Yep, after his infamous March to the Sea, Sherman's troops showed particular zeal in marching to Columbia and destroying it because, of course, South Carolina was the first to declare secession.


  • #46
    Ush1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,484 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Many, many flags will be offensive to some people. Sure the union jack is often referred to as the butchers apron.

    Stolen from the Rubber Bandits twitter, they said is the US flag going to be banned now for offending native Americans?


  • #47
    topper75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Muckracker wrote: »
    Good point about Sherman. One of the reasons Southerners hate Yanks so much is because of the devastation caused by Sherman.

    During WWII in advance of the Normandy operation a planeload of U.S. soldiers from the state of Georgia were walking down the steps of an aircraft at a British airfield. There was a band to welcome them. Good idea. They struck up Marching through Georgia. Bad idea. They went nuts and and charged down toward the band, supposedly their allies, until officers intervened got a hold of the situation and explanations were sought. The Brits didn't know the meaning of the song or its historical background. Yeah Sherman is a byword for terror still in the state of Georgia today.


  • #48
    old_aussie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,409 ✭✭✭old_aussie


    Wont somebody think of the General Lee, what's Daisy Duke gunna get picked up in now.


  • #49
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    Egginacup wrote: »
    The Confederate Flag stands for racism, pure and simple. The Confederacy was an unmitigated hell-hole for black people and people who advocate brandishing that ugly banner are revolting. They yammer on about a Southern "identity" or some other mealy-mouthed nonsense but it's just about glorifying segregation, beatings and lynchings of blacks. There is no state or province in Germany that flies the Swastika banner as testament to a German "identity" or some such. There ought not be in the US either.

    aye and the tricolor is a symbol of terrorism and bombers. and the Israeli flag is a symbol of murdering Jews massacring innocent Arabs and the south African flag is a symbol of racism and the union jack is a symbol of domination over native people.


    over simplify much ?

    if i lived in the south of the united states of america i would fly that flag every day just to show the liberals and the i cant be bullies into not standing by my heritage.

    A flag has nothing to to with how over entitled persons take the opportunity to impose their arrogance on everyone around them


  • #50
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,566 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    swimming in a sea wrote: »
    I think when Americans say the south they are not referring to Texas, as Texas is a whole other basket case of lunatics. Texas has money the rest of the southern states are poor.

    Any state that produces Shiner Bock cannot be entirely full of lunatics.


  • #51
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    swimming in a sea wrote: »
    I think when Americans say the south they are not referring to Texas, as Texas is a whole other basket case of lunatics. Texas has money the rest of the southern states are poor.

    An American similarily remarked to me once that the greatest achievement of the Florida tourist board was convincing America (and the rest of the world) that it wasn't in the South.


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  • #52
    Menas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,318 ✭✭✭✭Menas


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    if i lived in the south of america i would fly that flag every day just to show the liberals and the i cant be bullies into not standing by my heritage.

    Which south american country would you fly it in? The Brazilians may not mind a US confederate flag too much, but dont be doing it in Chile!


  • #53
    falan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,574 ✭✭✭falan


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Any person I ever spoke to about it, from England or anywhere, spoke of it in terms of Ireland, Irish bombers, campaigns by Irish terrorists and so on. They never referred to the Guildford attacks, Birmingham, Hyde Park and so on as "Catholic attacks" or the perpetrators as "Catholic bombers". Ever.

    I guess we just know different people.

    I guess we do know different people. I was born there to Irish parents (I identify as Irish) and spent 18 years going through the education system there during the 80s and 90s.
    Ive spent the last 18 years in Limerick but visit about 4 times a year and have many friends still there...But hey what do i know:)


  • #54
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    falan wrote: »
    I guess we do know different people. I was born there to Irish parents (I identify as Irish) and spent 18 years going through the education system there during the 80s and 90s.
    Ive spent the last 18 years in Limerick but visit about 4 times a year and have many friends still there...But hey what do i know:)

    With your extensive connections there, you only know people who always referred to Catholic bombers and a Catholic campaign of terrorism, and as I said I only know people who referred to Irish bombers and an Irish campaign of terrorism.


  • #55
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    aye and the tricolor is a symbol of terrorism and bombers. and the Israeli flag is a symbol of murdering Jews massacring innocent Arabs and the south African flag is a symbol of racism and the union jack is a symbol of domination over native people.


    over simplify much ?

    if i lived in the south of the united states of america i would fly that flag every day just to show the liberals and the i cant be bullies into not standing by my heritage.

    A flag has nothing to to with how over entitled persons take the opportunity to impose their arrogance on everyone around them
    You don't actually know anything about the Confederate flag, or the reason it flies in South Carolina today at all, do you?


  • #56
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    dwayneshintzy wrote: »
    You don't actually know anything about the Confederate flag, or the reason it flies in South Carolina today at all, do you?

    some one with an opposing view !! quick try to discredit :-)

    Im not jon snow . I do some something :D


  • #57
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    Eh?


  • #58
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    Anyway, it's the battle flag of an army that fought a war to preserve slavery, and was then resurrected to oppose the Civil Rights Act and desegregation


  • #59
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    It's just a flag, It's like saying the Union jack or English flag or the French flag for example stands for slavery. Depending on use historical or ones that were around at the time.


  • #60
    dwayneshintzy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,343 ✭✭✭dwayneshintzy


    And a flag that is flown in South Carolina in defiance of civil rights for African Americans


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  • #61
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    dwayneshintzy wrote: »
    And a flag that is flown in South Carolina in defiance of civil rights for African Americans

    The BNP fly the English flag in Racist ways does that mean the flag is Racist ?


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