The South Will (not) Rise Again?

wendell borton · 24-06-2015 11:55PM #1

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/24/the-history-of-the-unkillable-confederate-flag.html
In the aftermath of the sick shooting church goers in S. Carolina there is a major backlash against the flag of the confederacy with major retailers withdrawing it from sale and moves to remove it from state capitol buildings by republican governors.
This stinks to me of hypocritical political expediency since the republicans have maintained a stranglehold on political power by demagoguing to the south with gun control and puplic healthcare issues being prime examples which had a lot more to blame for the killings than a flag.
Why not ban the US altogether flag, since it was founded by rich white slave owners and perpetrated genocide through manifest destiny.

kneemos · 24-06-2015 11:59PM

What are Corkers going to wave ?

housetypeb · 25-06-2015 12:00AM

Pitchforks.

20Cent · 25-06-2015 12:01AM

flags don't kill people guns do.

Berserker · 25-06-2015 12:03AM

Typical OTT reaction from the US. Next week they'll probably decide to give everyone entering a church in the southern states a free gun.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 25-06-2015 12:04AM

20Cent wrote: »

flags don't kill people guns do.

Guns don't kill people. George R R Martin does.

The King of Moo · 25-06-2015 12:10AM

This is one of those cases where I initially feel it's an overreaction: yes the flag has nasty connotations that belong well in the past, but what's banning the flag going to achieve if you don't try to tackle the underlying problems which cause racism.

But then I think "What reasonable (American) individual is going to buy a Confederate flag and not be a d*ck?" and immediately don't give a damn about the feelings of anyone genuinley annoyed at not being able to buy one.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 25-06-2015 12:12AM

All reruns of the Dukes Of Hazards tv series and associated spinoff movies must have the General Lee's Confederate flag blurred out.

The King of Moo · 25-06-2015 12:14AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

All reruns of the Dukes Of Hazards tv series and associated spinoff movies must have the General Lee's Confederate flag blurred out.

Warner Bros. have actually announced they're going to stop licensing toy versions of it:

(Warner Bros. announced today that it will stop licensing toy versions of the famous car, but will continue selling T-shirts and other Dukes merchandise sans the good ol’ stars and bars.)

http://www.avclub.com/article/dukes-hazzards-cooter-has-something-say-about-batt-221337

Which is a little sad, as it was a very cool car, and the flag did suit it in a purely aesthetic sense.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 25-06-2015 12:16AM

Jesus I was only taking the piss. This is getting bloody ridiculous, total overreaction.

crockholm · 25-06-2015 12:18AM

Pretty cool looking flag in fairness.

PARlance · 25-06-2015 12:20AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Jesus I was only taking the piss. This is getting bloody ridiculous, total overreaction.

Well, they haven't decided to bomb all flag manufacturers just yet so I'm holding off the "total overreaction" till then.

Collie D · 25-06-2015 12:21AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Jesus I was only taking the piss. This is getting bloody ridiculous, total overreaction.

Always the way when nutters hijack something. Who ever thinks of Charlie Chaplin when they see a small square moustache?

That said the flag has always had dubious connotations so hardly been hijacked now. I suppose some will see it as a harmless symbol of the south but I'd always think of rednecks first.

Grayson · 25-06-2015 12:21AM

The King of Moo wrote: »

This is one of those cases where I initially feel it's an overreaction: yes the flag has nasty connotations that belong well in the past, but what's banning the flag going to achieve if you don't try to tackle the underlying problems which cause racism.

But then I think "What reasonable (American) individual is going to buy a Confederate flag and not be a d*ck?" and immediately don't give a damn about the feelings of anyone genuinley annoyed at not being able to buy one.

I heard a comment on a show the other day. The pastor who was killed was a state senator in Charleston. The confederate flag hangs over the senate building.

It's one thing if an individual owns a flag like that, it's different when the state hangs it over it's capital.

For Forks Sake · 25-06-2015 12:22AM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

All reruns of the Dukes Of Hazards tv series and associated spinoff movies must have the General Lee's Confederate flag blurred out.

http://newsthump.com/2015/06/24/confederate-flag-protest-sees-duke-of-hazzard-forced-to-borrow-wifes-nissan-micra/

Grayson · 25-06-2015 12:22AM

crockholm wrote: »

Pretty cool looking flag in fairness.

It does look cool on a dodge charger

The King of Moo · 25-06-2015 12:25AM

Grayson wrote: »

I head a comment on a show the other day. The pastor who was killed was a state senator in Charleston. The confederate flag hangs over the senate building.

It's one thing if an individual owns a flag like that, it's different when the state does hangs it over it's capital.

I was genuinely surprised when I first heard that the flag was flying over the statehouse, and then read that it still flies over state buildings in lots of parts of the South.
I wonder what it must be like for African Americans to have to see that on a regular basis in their hometowns.

Berserker · 25-06-2015 12:31AM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I was genuinely surprised when I first heard that the flag was flying over the statehouse, and then read that it still flies over state buildings in lots of parts of the South.

In the Tennessee statehouse, they have they bust of one of the founding figures of the Ku Klux Klan, if I remember correctly. As I said in another thread, I spend time in Texas and reminders of the past are common there.

wendell borton · 25-06-2015 12:44AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q6AS5Yegy4

nokia69 · 25-06-2015 01:00AM

The King of Moo wrote: »

I was genuinely surprised when I first heard that the flag was flying over the statehouse, and then read that it still flies over state buildings in lots of parts of the South.
I wonder what it must be like for African Americans to have to see that on a regular basis in their hometowns.

newmug · 25-06-2015 07:24AM

^^^^^^ I love pieces of reality like that. It reminds me of the North - Everybody stereotypes the situation and the people involved to what THEY think it was all about, and it incorrectly gets morphed from a fight for justice, to a fight for genocide.

For example, everybody thinks the North was about Catholics v Protestants. Ivor Bell, former IRA head, was a protestant. The Shankill Butchers, who were a UVF killing gang, were called Murphy, Connor, and Moore. 3 of the Irishest names you could get!

25-06-2015 08:00AM

newmug wrote: »

The Shankill Butchers, who were a UVF killing gang, were called Murphy, Connor, and Moore. 3 of the Irishest names you could get!

Moore?

It's English. From "moor".

nokia69 · 25-06-2015 08:12AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Moore?

It's English. From "moor".

his point is still a good one

25-06-2015 08:27AM

nokia69 wrote: »

his point is still a good one

Is it?

He said everyone thinks the North was Catholic v Protestant. I wouldn't say that at all. I'd say everyone thinks it was Loyalist/Unionist v Nationalist/Republican. The religion was really only representative, usually, of where people stood in that respect, but it was often wrong.

Similarly the US Civil War. Of course African Americans fought for the Confederacy. And slave owners fought for the Union. It wasn't simply about slavery. There were a host of other reasons, economics, culture, secession, the US had become 2 separate societies, a division which is still evident today...without the slavery.

nokia69 · 25-06-2015 08:32AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it?

He said everyone thinks the North was Catholic v Protestant. I wouldn't say that at all. I'd say everyone thinks it was Loyalist/Unionist v Nationalist/Republican. The religion was really only representative, usually, of where people stood in that respect, but it was often wrong.

it is

most people outside Ireland think of it as a religious conflict

just like most people outside the southern states in the US assume certain things about black and white people in the south

the truth is blacks and whites in the south get on far better than blacks and whites in the northern cities

25-06-2015 08:45AM

nokia69 wrote: »

it is

most people outside Ireland think of it as a religious conflict

just like most people outside the southern states in the US assume certain things about black and white people in the south

the truth is blacks and whites in the south get on far better than blacks and whites in the northern cities

I'd say most people outside Ireland don't think of it at all.

And most that do thought of it simply as Ireland versus Britain. Even now, some of those hardened Republican types are far more likely to express a distaste for England or the British than they are about Protestants.

I doubt many saw it as any crusade by Catholics or Protestants. Of course there was a hugely sectarian element to it.

Pumpkinseeds · 25-06-2015 09:40AM

It sounds like a total over reaction. Has anybody actually asked the black community how they feel about the flag, or is it just a case of some white idiots taking it upon themselves to feel offended on their behalf? Banning a flag is an utterly pointless knee jerk reaction. I heard some politician over there suggested removing it from a court house and I just assumed he was using the shootings as a platform to promote his own political career.

Menas · 25-06-2015 09:47AM

I lived in the deep south for a year and the flag is definitely a symbol for many down there. Black people i knew found it offensive as it symbolized that the flag bearer had a very different outlook than they did. For the whites who loved Dixie it was a symbol of independence, of not accepting liberals having control over their lives.

I was in a bar once and there was a country band playing. It was a bit of a wild place ...whisky drinking rednecks packed in to see this band.
On opening their final song of the set the singer said that 'this song is for all of you who dont accept some guy in a suit from new york tellin us how do live our lives'. The band fired up 'Sweet Home Alabama' while the Dixie flag was lowered on the wall behind the band. The crowd loved it...lots of Yee Haws...throwing of hats in the air.

The south is divided, always has been, and the Charlestown shooting is putting the uncomfortable truth out there. The flag is a symbol of that divide.

The_Kew_Tour · 25-06-2015 10:00AM

If only people worried about guns over flags, but hey, worry about a flag that does **** all harm to anybody over a Gun.

Dyr · 25-06-2015 10:03AM

Maybe if someone killed a churchload of people with a flag then they'd ban guns?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 25-06-2015 10:06AM

Ok honest question coming in here - by "south" do people mean Cork or Texas?

The South Will (not) Rise Again?

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