Penalty Points on NI License changed to Irish License

Jayop · 22-06-2015 08:38PM #1

I've probably had 9/12 penalty points since the system came in but I've not had any in the last five or six years (got older, slowed down). I've always had a Northern Ireland license so the points didn't really effect me as they were before they decided to apply them to UK licenses too. Now I want to convert my license to an Irish one but I'm afraid to incase the points all transfer over in one go and put me off the road.

I seem to remember there being something on the letters to say that points on non national licenses were retained and would be applied to Irish licenses if you changed over, but I'm not sure if that's accurate or if that only happens during the 3 years in which the points are active.

If anyone can advise I'd be very grateful!

Thanks!

Jayop · 23-06-2015 03:44PM

Bumping this to see if anyone knows about it.

Del2005 · 23-06-2015 04:04PM

They created a virtual Irish licence for you and applied the penalty points to that, but they don't become active till you get a real Irish licence and they are applied immediately. Transfer to an Irish licence and you're off the road straight away, if you have 12, or crazy insurance if 9.

Jayop · 23-06-2015 04:08PM

Del2005 wrote: »

They created a virtual Irish licence for you and applied the penalty points to that, but they don't become active till you get a real Irish licence and they are applied immediately. Transfer to an Irish licence and you're off the road straight away, if you have 12, or crazy insurance if 9.

So that's me stuck with a UK license for the rest of my life then. That's really stupid.

Do you have any link to an RSA website or anything with that info?

23-06-2015 05:44PM

Jayop wrote: »

. I've always had a Northern Ireland license so the points didn't really effect me as they were before they decided to apply them to UK licenses too.

They cant apply Irish points to your UK licence.

Jayop wrote: »

So that's me stuck with a UK license for the rest of my life then. That's really stupid.

Why not just keep the UK one there is no disadvantage to having one, insurance etc is the very same regardless.

Jayop · 23-06-2015 05:59PM

Nathalia Full Stomachache wrote: »

They cant apply Irish points to your UK licence.

Why not just keep the UK one there is no disadvantage to having one, insurance etc is the very same regardless.

I want to get a small motorbike for getting to and from work on dry days and it's not possible to get insurance in the south on a northern provisional bike license. I wanted to switch to the Irish license and do the bike test etc down here.

As for the insurance, I'm not certain anymore. My cousin lives in Athlone and has an NI license and when he was getting his renewal he put in Irish Full on one quote to check and the quote was a good bit less than when he went back and put in NI license.

challengemaster · 23-06-2015 06:02PM

There's nothing stopping you getting just an Irish bike licence.

slimjimmc · 23-06-2015 06:05PM

Jayop wrote: »

So that's me stuck with a UK license for the rest of my life then. That's really stupid.

Do you have any link to an RSA website or anything with that info?

Your NI licence number will be recorded and the penalty points applied to that record. The points only have force within Ireland so they won't affect your NI licence outside of Ireland.

Even with a foreign licence if you collect 12 points over a 3 year period then you will be banned from driving in Ireland. The Irish ban won't affect your NI licence nor be any problem for driving outside of the jurisdiction.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/penalty_points_for_driving_offences.html

Do penalty points apply to all Irish driving licences?
Yes. Penalty points apply to both learner permits and full Irish driving licences. Penalty points also apply to drivers with foreign driving licences driving in Ireland. If someone is driving in Ireland on a foreign licence, a record is created for the purpose of recording penalty points. Where the driver accumulates 12 penalty points in a 3-year period they are disqualified from driving in Ireland.

http://www.garda.ie/FAQ/Default.aspx?FAQCategory=35#FAQ10391

I do not hold an Irish driving licence, will I still get penalty points?
Yes. Penalty points are recorded on the licence provided. Further information can be obtained from the Road Safety Authority Website

http://rsa.ie/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Penalty-points/How-it-works-why-it-matters/

Any driver accumulating 12 penalty points within any given three-year period will be automatically disqualified from driving for six months. A lower threshold of 7 penalty points leading to disqualification applies to any driver taking out a first learner permit on or after 1 August 2014 while he or she drives under any learner permit and subsequently during the first two years while he or she is driving under a full driving licence. Where a driver has a foreign licence a record will be created and the penalty points recorded on that record.

The driver is required to surrender his/her Irish or foreign driving licence to the National Driver Licence Service within 10 days of disqualification commencing. It is an offence not to surrender a licence. It is also an offence to drive while disqualified.

Jayop · 23-06-2015 06:05PM

challengemaster wrote: »

There's nothing stopping you getting just an Irish bike licence.

I never thought of that. Would I be able to hold the UK car and the Irish bike concurrently then?

My worry with that if possible is that it wont recognise my car driving experience (not sure if that counts for anything when getting bike insurance).

Fred Swanson · 23-06-2015 06:07PM

This post has been deleted.

Jayop · 23-06-2015 06:08PM

slimjimmc wrote: »

Your NI licence number will be recorded and the penalty points applied to that record. The points only have force within Ireland so they won't affect your NI licence outside of Ireland.

Even with a foreign licence if you collect 12 points over a 3 year period then you will be banned from driving in Ireland. The Irish ban won't affect your NI licence nor be any problem for driving outside of the jurisdiction.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/penalty_points_for_driving_offences.html

http://www.garda.ie/FAQ/Default.aspx?FAQCategory=35#FAQ10391

http://rsa.ie/RSA/Licensed-Drivers/Penalty-points/How-it-works-why-it-matters/

Thanks for that!

It's been at least 6 years since I last got points but it still means I can't convert to an Irish license without getting those bundled on me again according to Del2005.

Fred Swanson · 23-06-2015 06:08PM

This post has been deleted.

Jayop · 23-06-2015 06:08PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

So that's a non runner then.

Fred Swanson · 23-06-2015 06:09PM

This post has been deleted.

slimjimmc · 23-06-2015 06:10PM

Jayop wrote: »

it's not possible to get insurance in the south on a northern provisional bike license.

That's because a provisional licence/learner permit is not valid outside of the country of issue. If you drive outside of the UK on a provisional licence then you are driving without a licence.

challengemaster · 23-06-2015 06:10PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

And why/how would they force you to surrender a NI Car licence they don't even know about when you're looking for a first time ROI bike licence?

Fred Swanson · 23-06-2015 06:13PM

This post has been deleted.

RecordStraight · 23-06-2015 06:15PM

Jayop wrote: »

As for the insurance, I'm not certain anymore. My cousin lives in Athlone and has an NI license and when he was getting his renewal he put in Irish Full on one quote to check and the quote was a good bit less than when he went back and put in NI license.

I wonder is that loading to allow for exactly people like you who have points for speeding or dangerous driving on a foreign licence?

Jayop · 23-06-2015 06:15PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I literally can't find anything anywhere on the internet about that to figure out where exactly the law stands. My understanding of it was pretty much what Del said before but there's no info readily available.

slimjimmc wrote: »

That's because a provisional licence/learner permit is not valid outside of the country of issue. If you drive outside of the UK on a provisional licence then you are driving without a licence.

Makes sense. So even if I got my UK provisional and insured it in the north I still couldn't ride down here.

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

How would they know I have one?

Fred Swanson · 23-06-2015 06:16PM

This post has been deleted.

Jayop · 23-06-2015 06:18PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

I wonder is that loading to allow for exactly people like you who have points for speeding or dangerous driving on a foreign licence?

To be fair I've been done speeding a couple of time but none of them were mental fast and none of them have been in the last 6 years. I can remember two of them but not the third (possibly fourth).

1 was on the dual carriageway into Sligo. It's built 100% to motorway spec and I was doing 127kmph. Too fast but not crazy, was also on the way to hospital for an emergency with my child.

2 was though a 50 zone where I didn't slow down early enough quick enough. I was clocked just over 60 and the Guard even said I had slowed down more but not before the sign.

Hardly the work of a speed demon.

Jayop · 23-06-2015 06:19PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Looks like to only realistic solution unless I could get a definitive answer on the points issue.

slimjimmc · 23-06-2015 06:25PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I don't see why not, there's no international law against it afaik. Any Garda can seize a foreign licence if he suspects the driver is disqualified or the licence is a dud so I reckon a similar authority applies to the disqualification process.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0025/sec0060.html

Imo it's similar to a foreign passport holder being ordered to surrender his/her passport in criminal cases.

Fred Swanson · 23-06-2015 06:27PM

This post has been deleted.

challengemaster · 23-06-2015 06:29PM

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yes, if you have a full IRISH licence. That's because the person already has a driver number associated with their identity. The OP is not in the system, and has no driver number in the ROI system. Hence they are applying as if they do not hold any licence and it is their first learner permit.

Where it is your first application for a learner Permit you must submit:
A fully completed NDLS "Application Form for a Learner Permit D201"
The appropriate fee, €35
A completed NDLS Eyesight report form D502 dated within one month of application
Theory Test certificate which must be issued within two years of the date of application
Documentation to verify your identity
Documentation to verify your residency entitlement
Documentation to verify your PPSN
A completed NDLS Medical report form dated within one month of application if required in your case . For further details on when a medical report is required please click here.
Evidence of address

Jayop · 23-06-2015 06:33PM

challengemaster wrote: »

Yes, if you have a full IRISH licence. That's because the person already has a driver number associated with their identity. The OP is not in the system, and has no driver number in the ROI system. Hence they are applying as if they do not hold any licence and it is their first learner permit.

So getting a second license just for biking may be an option. I'll chat with a mate of mine who's a Guard to see if he's any the wiser.

Even the citizen's information site which is normally the clearest for Gov information is cloudy about this. Here's all they say regarding points on foreign licenses.

Driving offences committed in other jurisdictions
Penalty points and endorsements on driving licences acquired in other states (including EU/EEA member states) are not recognised in Ireland. This is because these penalties have been issued by courts in other jurisdictions. In practice, this means that if you acquired penalty points or an endorsement on a driving licence before coming to Ireland, these penalty points or endorsements do not transfer over to an Irish driving licence. If, however, you have been banned from driving in another jurisdiction (for example, for drink driving) it may not be possible for you to exchange your existing licence for an Irish driving licence.

If you are driving on a foreign driving licence in Ireland and acquire penalty points here, you will receive the normal statutory fine and a record will be created to record the penalty points. If you accumulate 12 penalty points in a 3-year period you are disqualified from driving in Ireland.

No mention of them being carried over if you apply for an Irish license.

Jayop · 23-06-2015 06:37PM

I've sent an email to the RSA to ask them to clarify.

Hi,

I'm trying to find out if someone converts a UK driving license to an Irish license will penalty points that were awarded 5/6 years ago in Ireland be applied to the new Irish license even though they are past their expiry date?

Thanks in advance!

challengemaster · 23-06-2015 06:40PM

Jayop wrote: »

I've sent an email to the RSA to ask them to clarify.

Hi,

I'm trying to find out if someone converts a UK driving license to an Irish license will penalty points that were awarded 5/6 years ago in Ireland be applied to the new Irish license even though they are past their expiry date?

Thanks in advance!

I'm almost certain that they aren't past their expiry date because they can't be applied until you have an Irish licence. So they just sit there on a "virtual" licence until you get an Irish one. Once you do, they kick in and expire 3 years from the date you get your Irish licence.

RecordStraight · 23-06-2015 06:43PM

Jayop wrote: »

To be fair I've been done speeding a couple of time but none of them were mental fast and none of them have been in the last 6 years. I can remember two of them but not the third (possibly fourth).

1 was on the dual carriageway into Sligo. It's built 100% to motorway spec and I was doing 127kmph. Too fast but not crazy, was also on the way to hospital for an emergency with my child.

2 was though a 50 zone where I didn't slow down early enough quick enough. I was clocked just over 60 and the Guard even said I had slowed down more but not before the sign.

Hardly the work of a speed demon.

I'm not attacking you, I'm just saying that if there's a loophole where people can run up points that don't appear on their licence in a certain jurisdiction, it can make it hard for insurers to correctly weight the policy of someone holding a foreign licence (I have one myself). Therefore they might be forced to slightly increase the charge to everyone with a foreign licence to allow for the minority that have these 'hidden points' that suggest a history of more risky driving.

Jayop · 23-06-2015 06:43PM

challengemaster wrote: »

I'm almost certain that they aren't past their expiry date because they can't be applied until you have an Irish licence. So they just sit there on a "virtual" licence until you get an Irish one. Once you do, they kick in and expire 3 years from the date you get your Irish licence.

Which leaves me completely screwed unless I go down the route of trying to get separate licenses which I'd prefer not to do as it's messy as hell.

I may have to get the NI provisional, buy a bike up there and leave it up there going up to practice as much as humanly possible then do the full test ASAP. I can't imagine the test would be mentally difficult for someone with 13 years car driving experience.

Jayop · 23-06-2015 06:47PM

RecordStraight wrote: »

I'm not attacking you, I'm just saying that if there's a loophole where people can run up points that don't appear on their licence in a certain jurisdiction, it can make it hard for insurers to correctly weight the policy of someone holding a foreign licence (I have one myself). Therefore they might be forced to slightly increase the charge to everyone with a foreign licence to allow for the minority that have these 'hidden points' that suggest a history of more risky driving.

Fair enough. It seemed a bit more of an attack but put like that it makes sense (unfortunately).

I just find it absolutely mental that despite having a clean license for years I can't get an Irish license for fear of being put off the road for things that happened years ago. Makes no sense to me that with the system they have it makes it impossible for me to legitimise my Irish driving. :mad:

Penalty Points on NI License changed to Irish License

Comments