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Abortions for 3,735, minature flags for nobody

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Comments

  • #752
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    How much does an abortion cost?


  • #753
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Jenny Thalia wrote: »
    It has absolutely nothing to do with you, it has no effect on you and it's none of your business.

    At what stage do you think unborn children become the business of society?


  • #754
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    At what stage do you think unborn children become the business of society?

    They are the business of the person they're gestating in.

    When the foetus becomes viable, ie around the 24 week mark, then they should have a chance at life, IF they are not suffering a FFA and IF the mother's life isn't at risk.


  • #755
    YurOK2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 272 ✭✭YurOK2


    I was going to reply to some posts but I actually can't be bothered. The same people will regurgitate the same horrible shíte no matter what you say.
    I made my point and I stand by it. Every woman in the world should be able to access abortion services without any terms and conditions attached to same, without having to leave their home country and without needing access to excessive amounts of money. The end.


  • #756
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    ToddyDoody wrote: »
    How much does an abortion cost?

    The guts of a grand for -

    Flights (usually at pretty short notice).
    Accommodation for one or two nights (depending on requirements).
    Food.
    Public transport/taxis.
    The procedure itself.

    Usually a bit over 1k


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  • #757
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Jenny Thalia wrote: »
    When the foetus becomes viable, ie around the 24 week mark, then they should have a chance at life, IF they are not suffering a FFA and IF the mother's life isn't at risk.

    Oh, so then you don't mean what you said earlier:
    Jenny Thalia wrote: »
    It has absolutely nothing to do with you, it has no effect on you and it's none of your business unless your girlfriend decides she wants an abortion.

    Make up your mind like. Why direct this comment at the user when it turns out you partially agree with them.


  • #758
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    Oh, so then you don't mean what you said earlier:



    Make up your mind like. Why direct this comment at the user when it turns out you partially agree with them.

    It hasn't got anything to do with nox unless it's his partner up the duff.

    Just like my uterus and whatever the hell may or may not be in it is none of YOUR business.

    Eta: It's very simple. If the foetus is viable, it deserves a chance at life, IF it isn't negatively affecting the mother's health.

    This, however, is merely my opinion and has absolutely nothing to do with box or you, nor should it have anything to do with you.


  • #759
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    YurOK2 wrote: »
    Every woman in the world should be able to access abortion services without any terms and conditions attached to same.

    I support women having access to abortion services also but "without any terms and conditions attached to same"?

    I don't for one second believe that.


  • #760
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    Have any abortions actually happened in Ireland under the current law?

    Yes. Miss y was granted an abortion. Abortion doesn't always mean killing the baby, tearing it limb from limb. Irish hospitals have always carried out life saving abortions.


  • #761
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    lazygal wrote: »
    Yes. Miss y was granted an abortion. Abortion doesn't always mean killing the baby, tearing it limb from limb. Irish hospitals have always carried out life saving abortions.

    Surely that's a forced caesarean?


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  • #762
    lazygal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Jenny Thalia wrote: »
    Surely that's a forced caesarean?

    Yes it is. And an abortion or termination of pregnancy. Abortion doesn't always involve killing a foetus. My pregnancies were terminated by c section, in one case planned earlier than my due date as it wouldn't have been save to have any other options and in the second because of emergency factors.


    Eta I think early termination or.abortion is best. But doctors in Ireland have to take the foetus into account so any termination or abortion here, especially past 23 weeks when there's a chance of survival, has to keep the interest of the foetus balanced with the rights of the woman.


  • #763
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Jenny Thalia wrote: »
    It hasn't got anything to do with nox unless it's his partner up the duff.

    He's a member of society. Of course it's his business. We live in democracy. We have laws.
    Just like my uterus and whatever the hell may or may not be in it is none of YOUR business.

    If you live in Ireland, it IS my business and if there is a referendum, this country will afford me a vote on just what women can and cannot do with their unborn children.
    Eta: It's very simple. If the foetus is viable, it deserves a chance at life, IF it isn't negatively affecting the mother's health.

    This, however, is merely my opinion and has absolutely nothing to do with box or you, nor should it have anything to do with you.

    Jenny, you are heavily contradicting yourself here. I asked you when is it society's business what women do with their unborn children and you said 24 weeks and now you are reverting back to your 'It's none of your business' line after saying that. You can't say on one hand it's none of your business to people and then say it's society's business at 24 weeks. That makes no sense. We are society.


  • #764
    Patrick Wheelock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭Patrick Wheelock


    Do the pro-choice ladies think that men should be allowed vote in an abortion referendum?

    Also - the statement "if you don't want an abortion, then don't have one" should only be directed towards women of childbearing age.

    People have said it to me when I try and argue the pro-life side.

    My response: "I'm a man. I can't get pregnant so I can't have an abortion anyway".


  • #765
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Patrick Wheelock wrote: »
    Do the pro-choice ladies think that men should be allowed vote in an abortion referendum?

    Also - the statement "if you don't want an abortion, then don't have one" should only be directed towards women of childbearing age.

    People have said it to me when I try and argue the pro-life side.

    My response: "I'm a man. I can't get pregnant so I can't have an abortion anyway".

    Everyone should have a vote, we live in a democracy. I would ask men and those women past child bearing age to think about the women they know, their daughter, partner, friends and think about what they would say to her if she had a crisis pregnancy. It's not something that affects anyone other than the person/family themselves. Voting yes is not a bad thing.


  • #766
    Patrick Wheelock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 138 ✭✭Patrick Wheelock


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Everyone should have a vote, we live in a democracy. I would ask men and those women past child bearing age to think about the women they know, their daughter, partner, friends and think about what they would say to her if she had a crisis pregnancy. It's not something that affects anyone other than the person/family themselves. Voting yes is not a bad thing.

    Fair enough.

    That's a reasonable response.

    But other people will say "shut up, you're a man".


  • #767
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Patrick Wheelock wrote: »
    Fair enough.

    That's a reasonable response.

    But other people will say "shut up, you're a man".

    I think that's driven by anger at some of the crass comments from some men regarding the issues. It's easy to be against something when you have complete security knowing you will never need to use it.


  • #768
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I think that's driven by anger at some of the crass comments from some men regarding the issues. It's easy to be against something when you have complete security knowing you will never need to use it.

    The reason it's easy to be against abortion-on-demand is because it is so obviously wrong and unethical. Nothing to do with whether you're male or female.


  • #769
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    The reason it's easy to be against abortion-on-demand is because it is so obviously wrong and unethical. Nothing to do with whether you're male or female.

    That's only your opinion, it's not a fact


  • #770
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    Patrick Wheelock wrote: »
    But other people will say "shut up, you're a man".

    The 'It's nobody's business but the mother, it's her body, shut up' argument is always trotted out whenever this discussion eventually, and inevitably, gets around to the point at which society should protect and seek justice for the unborn. It always did and always will. It's the crux of the debate. You see, it's all well and good pretending the abortion debate is about body autonomy and constantly repeating tired old mantras about how women can never be forced to carry a child she does not want and how woman should never be jailed for having an abortion but the truth is a different matter entirely.

    The truth is that NO woman believes that, none. Every single woman that has every said that will eventually end up contradicting themselves when you start asking the right questions. It's just lazy mantras that they have always repeated in these discussions but the reality is that the vast vast majority of women want society to legally force pregnant women to carry their child full term or face the consequences if she didn't, it's only a question of at which point of the pregnancy each woman would like that law set at. That's the real truth. It's just a shame it's not admitted from the get go so a more honest and needed debate could be had.


  • #771
    captbarnacles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    I'm a pro-choice man and no, I don't really see why get a vote on what goes on in a woman's body.


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  • #772
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    The 'It's nobody's business but the mother, it's her body, shut up' argument is always trotted out whenever this discussion eventually, and inevitably, gets around to the point at which society should protect and seek justice for the unborn. It always did and always will. It's the crux of the debate. You see, it's all well and good pretending the abortion debate is about body autonomy and constantly repeating tired old mantras about how women can never be forced to carry a child she does not want and how woman should never be jailed for having an abortion but the truth is a different matter entirely.

    The truth is that NO woman believes that, none. Every single woman that has every said that will eventually end up contradicting themselves when you start asking the right questions. It's just lazy mantras that they have always repeated in these discussions but the reality is that the vast vast majority of women want society to legally force pregnant women to carry their child full term or face the consequences if she didn't, it's only a question of at which point of the pregnancy each woman would like that law set at. That's the real truth. It's just a shame it's not admitted from the get go so a more honest and needed debate could be had.

    How do you come to that conclusion? I don't know a single person on either side of the debate who supports the jailing of women either btw.


  • #773
    NachoBusiness
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭NachoBusiness


    eviltwin wrote: »
    How do you come to that conclusion? I don't know a single person on either side of the debate who supports the jailing of women either btw.

    Simple: because all women would want a law in place to make it illegal for this woman to do what she did and all she did was abort her baby.


  • #774
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    Simple: because all women would want a law in place to make it illegal for this woman to do what she did and all she did was abort her baby.

    I don't think what she did was right, I don't think it should be a punishable offence though


  • #775
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,186 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Patrick Wheelock wrote: »
    Fair enough.

    That's a reasonable response.

    But other people will say "shut up, you're a man".

    Except nobody on here did say that, did they?
    Despite your best efforts. :D

    NachoBusiness wrote: »
    The 'It's nobody's business but the mother, it's her body, shut up' argument is always trotted out whenever this discussion eventually, and inevitably, gets around to the point at which society should protect and seek justice for the unborn. It always did and always will. It's the crux of the debate.

    So now the "debate" here has got to the point where not just one but two "pro-life" posters are arguing something that nobody on this thread has said, certainly no female posters anyway - so to their claim that it always gets to this point, I would say that they are the ones who are trying to get it to exactly that point, and in despair at the fact that nobody said it, have decided to argue it anyway.

    Presumably because it's the only point they can argue, having been soundly beaten on the points posters have actually argued!

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #776
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,774 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I would ask men and those women past child bearing age to think about the women they know, their daughter, partner, friends and think about what they would say to her if she had a crisis pregnancy..

    What would I say? Have your baby obviously.


  • #777
    NI24
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 641 ✭✭✭NI24


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Most of the worst aspects of the pro life movement are female.

    You know what the weirdest thing is? How many old women are in those groups. It's always the men and the old women who are the loudest pro-lifers--in essence, the two groups of adults it effects the least. It's not that young women don't get involved, but they're a heck of a lot quieter/more respectful about it. I guess it really comes down to a fear of lack of control over a very essential part of society.


  • #778
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    eviltwin wrote: »
    That's only your opinion, it's not a fact

    It's not only my opinion, it's the opinion of many people around the world. It's also the opinion of the Irish people, which is why they voted it into the constitution. I don't need to have a womb to know that abortion is wrong, anymore than I need to be Jewish to know that the holocaust was wrong.


  • #779
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,186 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    It's not only my opinion, it's the opinion of many people around the world. It's also the opinion of the Irish people, which is why they voted it into the constitution. I don't need to have a womb to know that abortion is wrong, anymore than I need to be Jewish to know that the holocaust was wrong.
    It's a minority opinion in the developed world where women have full legal status though, and since you're claiming strength of opinion as evidence of strength of claim, you clearly lose on that one.

    Unless you want to put us alongside Saudi Arabia and Iran in the human rights stakes.

    Also, if abortion is comparable to the holocaust, are you in favour of lengthy jail sentences for women who are discovered to have availed of one? Including minors pregnant through sex abuse? And (or) any adults guilty of aiding and abetting such abortions for minors?

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #780
    frostyjacks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,951 ✭✭✭frostyjacks


    volchitsa wrote: »
    It's a minority opinion in the developed world where women have full legal status though, and since you're claiming strength of opinion as evidence of strength of claim, you clearly lose on that one.

    Unless you want to put us alongside Saudi Arabia and Iran in the human rights stakes.

    Also, if abortion is comparable to the holocaust, are you in favour of lengthy jail sentences for women who are discovered to have availed of one? Including minors pregnant through sex abuse? And (or) any adults guilty of aiding and abetting such abortions for minors?

    I'm not comparing abortion to the holocaust. I'm saying that just because something doesn't directly affect you, doesn't make your opinion on it any less valid. I like that our constitution protects the rights of the unborn. You wouldn't deny someone their rights would you?


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  • #781
    Kev W
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭Kev W


    frostyjacks wrote: »
    I don't need to have a womb to know that abortion is wrong, anymore than I need to be Jewish to know that the holocaust was wrong.
    frostyjacks wrote: »
    I'm not comparing abortion to the holocaust.

    Well...


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