Ukraine: As it happens.

Grayson · 13-06-2015 05:01PM

Isiah wrote: »

One isolated incident of Violence at a demonstration does not make a country unsafe. My people over there have no trouble in their cities, stop wishing it upon them.

Unless they're Tatar. Or if they disagree with the Russian authorities. It's been well documented that many people who objected to the invasion have disappeared or been locked up. Many more have had all their property taken away.

Gatling · 13-06-2015 06:02PM

Grayson wrote: »

Unless they're Tatar. Or if they disagree with the Russian authorities. It's been well documented that many people who objected to the invasion have disappeared or been locked up. Many more have had all their property taken away.

Along with 180,000 who have fled Crimea since its illegal annexation according to united nations figures who have fled persecution in there own historic land from Russian forces

IrishTrajan · 13-06-2015 06:19PM

Count Dooku wrote: »

Why remaining 15 million should live under dictatorship of 30 million when law enforced by neo-Nazi paramilitaries?

Those "neo-Nazis" make up like 2% of the entire Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Count Dooku wrote: »

Nice try, but whole Ukraine doesn't worse 100Bn

It happened over several years, not a single year.

Count Dooku wrote: »

It was EU who refused give him 5Bn in hope that he will be overthrown by crowd, so now West will have to pay 40Bn only to preserve failed state from total collapse.

Since 2004 Ukraine sought to establish closer relations with the European Union (EU) and Russia.[26][27] One of these measures was an association agreement with the European Union which would provide Ukraine with funds contingent on reforms.[28] Yanukovych ultimately refused to sign the agreement at the urging of Russia.[29] Thereafter, Yanukovych signed a treaty and multi-billion dollar loan with Russia instead, which sparked civil unrest in Kiev that ultimately led to violent clashes as law enforcement troops cracked down on protesters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Ukrainian_revolution

Egginacup wrote: »

Get the fuck out of here. The entire Ukraine economy is only 170 Billion and you claim Yanukovich pocketed TWO THIRDS of the entire country's GDP.:pac:

And you think he did it all in one year? Take your head out of the sandbox, Jimmy.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/05/01/world/politics-diplomacy-world/yanukovych-mafia-stole-100-billion/

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-toppled-mafia-president-cost-ukraine-up-to-100-billion-prosecutor-says-2014-30?IR=T

Next time you try to be a smart áss, don't make stupid comments.

IrishTrajan · 13-06-2015 06:26PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Everybody on here, when asked to provide evidence of Russian soldiers in Ukraine, plaster images of Russian troops in CRIMEA and try to get away with that tired and sad trick.

There has been a plethora of articles and interviews, short documentaries (Vice News have covered it quite extensively), and Russian reports of Russian troops being arrested by Ukraine having "gone the wrong direction" on a training exercise, with live rounds.

Egginacup wrote: »

It's lost on them that Russia troops were in Crimea WITH UKRAINE'S PERMISSION since 1991 and yet they still try to palm it off as an invasion. Then they say that the referendum to reunite with Russia was a rigged vote or was unfair. Again it's lost on them that Crimea was part of Russia for centuries. They don't complain that Crimea was given to Ukraine without a vote in 1954 yet cry foul when it voted to go back.

I suppose you think the North's Boundary Commission back in the 50s was entirely justified as well in that case, since the Catholic/Nationalist areas had been part of the UK for a century.

Egginacup · 13-06-2015 07:32PM

Grayson wrote: »

If american troops left their bases in the UK and surrounded Bitish military bases and then the houses of parliament, then forced the MP's to have a vote on "Joining" the US, I'd consider that an invasion.

As it is, US forces are nice and happy in their bases.

That's the difference. When Russian troops left their bases and surrounded Ukrainian troops, they invaded sovereign territory. You'll notice that Ukrainian troops didn't fire a shot. Despite having their gates rammed and troops flooding in.

You'll also notice that the situation in eastern Ukraine was stable until actual KGB agents turned up and declared a "republic". They then took over all the civilian institutions such as police stations. At that point the Ukrainians were still passively resisting.

Seriously though, how can you not call it an invasion when Russian troops actually surround barracks and take over territory.

If someone used photographs of American troops in England as evidence of a US invasion of the UK then what would you say? Because that is what is being proffered in the case of Russian troops in Crimea.

I don't want to hear about your claims of Russian soldiers leaving their posts until you can man up and state that Russian soldiers in Crimea for over 20 years, guarding Sevastopol at the invite of the government of Kiev is NOT nor has it ever been an invasion. It is being construed as such by many of the chattering class on this forum. Why were they not screaming about the so called Russian invasion of Crimea 20 years ago?
Because there isn't or wasn't one.

We can discuss your complaints about your allegations of Russian military personnel leaving their compounds and surrounding Ukrainian installations AFTER you admit that the very presence of Russian soldiers in Crimea never has been and invasion, albeit painted as such by so many on here.

Did or did NOT Russia invade Crimea in 2014, 2013 or at any other time? It's a very simple question and I insist you answer it.

Egginacup · 13-06-2015 07:39PM

Gatling wrote: »

All this according to you really let's see all your evidence to back all the above statements up

Look Gatling, you have claimed that you have evidence of who shot down MH-17. Please don't engage me in debate. This is a serious discussion and I don't waste my breath on the likes of you.

Gatling · 13-06-2015 08:33PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Look Gatling, you have claimed that you have evidence of who shot down MH-17. Please don't engage me in debate. This is a serious discussion and I don't waste my breath on the likes of you.

In the words of Ygritte north of the wall

"You Know Nothing "

Gatling · 13-06-2015 08:40PM

On an actual serious note .

America is sending heavy fighting equipment to the Baltic states .
Main Battle Tanks
Infantry fighting vehicles
Heavy Artillery
And up to 5000 men per state in rotation with other forces to provide an effective rapid response force to counter Russian aggression in the region.
Now America hasn't kept any heavy equipment in any of the Baltic states previously and expect a Russian response

Irish Praetorian · 13-06-2015 08:44PM

Wonderful little article about the small teams of people being paid to post pro-Putin nonsense on the internet - not that such a description would fit anyone around here...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house

fedor.2. · 13-06-2015 09:09PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Look Gatling, you have claimed that you have evidence of who shot down MH-17. Please don't engage me in debate. This is a serious discussion and I don't waste my breath on the likes of you.

Meeeeow. Settle down, comrade

LadyFenghuang · 13-06-2015 09:41PM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Wonderful little article about the small teams of people being paid to post pro-Putin nonsense on the internet - not that such a description would fit anyone around here...

This is actually true?

Gatling · 13-06-2015 09:47PM

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

This is actually true?

Kremlin trolls all true

Egginacup · 13-06-2015 09:49PM

Grayson wrote: »

Unless they're Tatar. Or if they disagree with the Russian authorities. It's been well documented that many people who objected to the invasion have disappeared or been locked up. Many more have had all their property taken away.

Really?
Well documented?
First of all ... what "invasion"? These are your words. When was there an invasion of Crimea? Once you tell us all about that then we can move on to your other claims.

So....when did this "invasion" occur?

darkpagandeath · 13-06-2015 09:54PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Really?
Well documented?
First of all ... what "invasion"? These are your words. When was there an invasion of Crimea? Once you tell us all about that then we can move on to your other claims.

So....when did this "invasion" occur?

The dear leader must have been mistaken when he admitted to Russian troops taking Crimea. You can go on about the semantics all you like. The fact is the little green men were Russian they had left their bases and took Crimea. These are the facts.

Count Dooku · 13-06-2015 10:02PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

The dear leader must have been mistaken when he admitted to Russian troops taking Crimea. You can go on about the semantics all you like. The fact is the little green men were Russian they had left their bases and took Crimea. These are the facts.

What about "thousands well documented missing"?
So far could find mention only about one local Tatar who have been killed during liberation of Crimea from Ukraine.
Any other proof apart from lies of Kyiv?

Gatling · 13-06-2015 10:06PM

Count Dooku wrote: »

What about "thousands well documented missing"?
So far could find mention only about one local Tatar who have been killed during liberation of Crimea from Ukraine.
Any other proof apart from lies of Kyiv?

180,000 have fled persecution in Crimea instigated by Russian forces including sizing lands and businesses from Crimeans who don't support the Russian agenda

Egginacup · 13-06-2015 10:34PM

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Wonderful little article about the small teams of people being paid to post pro-Putin nonsense on the internet - not that such a description would fit anyone around here...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house

Yet you can't find any evidence of a Russian "invasion" of Crimea, Ukraine or anywhere?

So we have a building full of people spitting out "god bless Putin" tweets and other such crap. Very similar I'm sure to those being paid to spread pro-Israeli propaganda. And that's fine. That's always going to be a tactic whether it be Radio Free Europe or Voice of America or any other 5th column. That's just propaganda and there to sway the clueless on either side. You're dangerously close to falling into that category yourself by the way.

Facts are what matter. There has been a NATO orchestrated coup d' etat in Kiev.
This is a fact.
There has been an effort by the authors of this coup d 'etat to say that it wasn't a coup d'etat.
This is a fact.
There has been an attempt by the newly installed government of Kiev to seize Sevastopol and Odessa.
This is a fact.
These attempts were thwarted by the owners of Sevastopol.
This is a fact.

All other squeeks and squawks are the bleatings of those who don't like to admit that they were defeated in their attempts at snatching the Black Sea from Russia.

All this other shit about corruption or referenda of gay rights in Moscow or any other crap is just that...crap.
Washington and the IMF tried to rob a bridge too far with Ukraine in order to knife Russia and they made a balls of it.

Now clucks like John Kerry are trying to negotiate their way out of the ultra fcukup they've created.

Gatling · 13-06-2015 10:36PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Yet you can't find any evidence of a Russian "invasion" of Crimea, Ukraine or anywhere?

So we have a building full of people spitting out "god bless Putin" tweets and other such crap. Very similar I'm sure to those being paid to spread pro-Israeli propaganda. And that's fine. That's always going to be a tactic whether it be Radio Free Europe or Voice of America or any other 5th column. That's just propaganda and there to sway the clueless on either side. You're dangerously close to falling into that category yourself by the way.

Facts are what matter. There has been a NATO orchestrated coup d' etat in Kiev.
This is a fact.
There has been an effort by the authors of this coup d 'etat to say that it wasn't a coup d'etat.
This is a fact.
There has been an attempt by the newly installed government of Kiev to seize Sevastopol and Odessa.
This is a fact.
These attempts were thwarted by the owners of Sevastopol.
This is a fact.

All other squeeks and squawks are the bleatings of those who don't like to admit that they were defeated in their attempts at snatching the Black Sea from Russia.

All this other shit about corruption or referenda of gay rights in Moscow or any other crap is just that...crap.
Washington and the IMF tried to rob a bridge too far with Ukraine in order to knife Russia and they made a balls of it.

Now clucks like John Kerry are trying to negotiate their way out of the ultra fcukup they've created.

Putin said otherwise oops !!!

CIA coups ,Fifth columns ,isreal, propaganda

I believe medication can help

InTheTrees · 13-06-2015 10:39PM

Egginacup wrote: »

All this other shit about corruption or referenda of gay rights in Moscow or any other crap is just that...crap.

So Amnesty International are wrong?

or working for the (:eek:) Americans?

InTheTrees · 13-06-2015 10:46PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Now clucks like John Kerry are trying to negotiate their way out of the ultra fcukup they've created.

Seems to me that Kerry just sold 5000 battle tanks at $4.5 million each.

The massive "defense" companies in southern california (and those local economies) will be direct beneficiaries i'm sure.

So you'll have to explain the details of his "ultra fcukup"?

Grayson · 13-06-2015 10:56PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Yet you can't find any evidence of a Russian "invasion" of Crimea, Ukraine or anywhere?

So we have a building full of people spitting out "god bless Putin" tweets and other such crap. Very similar I'm sure to those being paid to spread pro-Israeli propaganda. And that's fine. That's always going to be a tactic whether it be Radio Free Europe or Voice of America or any other 5th column. That's just propaganda and there to sway the clueless on either side. You're dangerously close to falling into that category yourself by the way.

Facts are what matter. There has been a NATO orchestrated coup d' etat in Kiev.
This is a fact.
There has been an effort by the authors of this coup d 'etat to say that it wasn't a coup d'etat.
This is a fact.
There has been an attempt by the newly installed government of Kiev to seize Sevastopol and Odessa.
This is a fact.
These attempts were thwarted by the owners of Sevastopol.
This is a fact.

All other squeeks and squawks are the bleatings of those who don't like to admit that they were defeated in their attempts at snatching the Black Sea from Russia.

All this other shit about corruption or referenda of gay rights in Moscow or any other crap is just that...crap.
Washington and the IMF tried to rob a bridge too far with Ukraine in order to knife Russia and they made a balls of it.

Now clucks like John Kerry are trying to negotiate their way out of the ultra fcukup they've created.

Seriously Egg (do you mind if I call you Egg? Or would you prefer Mr. Cup

)

Russians surrounded military bases in Crimea. They held the soldiers there at gunpoint until they left Crimea. They were the "little green men" that surrounded the parliament. Even Putin admits it.

LadyFenghuang · 13-06-2015 11:00PM

Gatling wrote: »

Kremlin trolls all true

If they only serve to exhaust opposing opinions then I suppose I understand why it's done. I heard that it was also done in US presidential American elections. Possibly both sides.

darkpagandeath · 13-06-2015 11:05PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Yet you can't find any evidence of a Russian "invasion" of Crimea, Ukraine or anywhere?

So we have a building full of people spitting out "god bless Putin" tweets and other such crap. Very similar I'm sure to those being paid to spread pro-Israeli propaganda. And that's fine. That's always going to be a tactic whether it be Radio Free Europe or Voice of America or any other 5th column. That's just propaganda and there to sway the clueless on either side. You're dangerously close to falling into that category yourself by the way.

Facts are what matter. There has been a NATO orchestrated coup d' etat in Kiev.
This is a fact.
There has been an effort by the authors of this coup d 'etat to say that it wasn't a coup d'etat.
This is a fact.
There has been an attempt by the newly installed government of Kiev to seize Sevastopol and Odessa.
This is a fact.
These attempts were thwarted by the owners of Sevastopol.
This is a fact.

All other squeeks and squawks are the bleatings of those who don't like to admit that they were defeated in their attempts at snatching the Black Sea from Russia.

All this other shit about corruption or referenda of gay rights in Moscow or any other crap is just that...crap.
Washington and the IMF tried to rob a bridge too far with Ukraine in order to knife Russia and they made a balls of it.

Now clucks like John Kerry are trying to negotiate their way out of the ultra fcukup they've created.

Interesting where are these facts reported ? Lets see....

Evade.
Dissemble.
Lie.
Accuse.
Attack.

With a large dose of Provocation and Aggressors.

Gatling · 13-06-2015 11:11PM

LadyFenghuang wrote: »

If they only serve to exhaust opposing opinions then I suppose I understand why it's done. I heard that it was also done in US presidential American elections. Possibly both sides.

But you wouldn't get it on the global scale we see coming from the Kremlin.
Go on to any forum that covers any theme not just boards.ie and mention Ukraine or Russia and you'll have a lot of sudden new registrations all defending Russia and blaming America and neo nazi's on Kiev .

Irish Praetorian · 13-06-2015 11:21PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Yet you can't find any evidence of a Russian "invasion" of Crimea, Ukraine or anywhere?

So we have a building full of people spitting out "god bless Putin" tweets and other such crap. Very similar I'm sure to those being paid to spread pro-Israeli propaganda. And that's fine. That's always going to be a tactic whether it be Radio Free Europe or Voice of America or any other 5th column. That's just propaganda and there to sway the clueless on either side. You're dangerously close to falling into that category yourself by the way.

Facts are what matter. There has been a NATO orchestrated coup d' etat in Kiev.
This is a fact.
There has been an effort by the authors of this coup d 'etat to say that it wasn't a coup d'etat.
This is a fact.
There has been an attempt by the newly installed government of Kiev to seize Sevastopol and Odessa.
This is a fact.
These attempts were thwarted by the owners of Sevastopol.
This is a fact.

All other squeeks and squawks are the bleatings of those who don't like to admit that they were defeated in their attempts at snatching the Black Sea from Russia.

All this other shit about corruption or referenda of gay rights in Moscow or any other crap is just that...crap.
Washington and the IMF tried to rob a bridge too far with Ukraine in order to knife Russia and they made a balls of it.

Now clucks like John Kerry are trying to negotiate their way out of the ultra fcukup they've created.

Just out of interest, where do you live? I'd love to meet up.

gandalf · 13-06-2015 11:29PM

Everytime dear old eggy contributes to this thread and others about his beloved Mother Russia I am reminded of Father Ted.

https://anatheistviewpoint.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/screen-shot-2012-04-28-at-19-21-50.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Tin_foil_hat_2.png

darkpagandeath · 13-06-2015 11:38PM

gandalf wrote: »

Everytime dear old eggy contributes to this thread and others about his beloved Mother Russia I am reminded of Father Ted.

https://anatheistviewpoint.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/screen-shot-2012-04-28-at-19-21-50.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Tin_foil_hat_2.png

Annoying thing is though the whole "Proof" angle. I could walk off get an alien for example present it as evidence, And then be told it's not real. Despite the little green man standing right next to me.

Egginacup · 14-06-2015 12:10AM

Well in spreading freedom and shielding the people of Ukraine from foreign authoritarianism I find it decidedly hypocritical that the champions of "freedom and democracy" are now admitting to supporting neo-nazis.

Tsk tsk

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article42132.htm

So the US House backs neo-nazis. Nice, lads.

Egginacup · 14-06-2015 12:47AM

Now what I would say to you Grayson, and to your few little screechers on here, think very VERY carefully before you lend your support to Azov neo-nazis.

IrishTrajan · 14-06-2015 12:56AM

Egginacup wrote: »

Well in spreading freedom and shielding the people of Ukraine from foreign authoritarianism I find it decidedly hypocritical that the champions of "freedom and democracy" are now admitting to supporting neo-nazis.

Do you really not see the irony?

Ukraine: As it happens.

Comments