The Irish language is failing.

Dughorm wrote:

Schools do have mandatory subjects as far as I know. Ask your nearest one and ask them what their mandatory subjects are.

But it's not about the schools mandatory subjects. It's about what the state's mandatory subjects are, and it's Irish. Therefore, they're not comparable unless you can prove to me that maths and English ARE just as mandatory even if the department of education doesn't say so on their website.

Dughorm wrote:

And yet that is the reason why Irish is being taught the way it is and failing to get a love for the language across in my opinion.

But why is the minority's personal argument of nostalgia more valid than the majority's personal argument of usefulness?

boardise wrote: »

The idea of ordering a meal in Gaelic is an example of simple-minded fantasising that I played along with to make the point that hardly needs spelling out -that Gaelic can't cope with the demands of life without utter waste of time and labour.

This is obvious though surely and doesn't need a silly "game" to spell out. Most of the items on your list do have a translation, there are native terms for them, in so far as there are in most smaller (<8m native speakers) European languages, i.e. "Peking", "aromatic" and "duck" all have cognates, but "Aromatic Peking Duck" does not without an artificial genitive construction, as is the case even in Finnish for food items like this.

Rather than focus on the words themselves and "how you would say them" (as Finnish and other small languages would fail your test), it's better to say there is no context for them, i.e. the terms are meaningless because a scenario in which to use them does not exist (which is what really distinguishes Irish and a healthy language like Finnish).

I am just waiting for the prátaí versus fataí debate.

Bheadh na fataí nite, bruite, agus ite ag an gConnachtach sula mbeidís ráite ag an Muimhneach.

The potatoes will be washed, boiled and eaten by people from Connacht before the people of Munster have said the word.

It's so true!

Irish speakers use loan words from all languages, most languages use loan words.

In Connemara they are never on their rothar. They are on their bicycle.

Chuaigh mé ann ar mo bhicycle.

Yes Aineoil- I am indeed married to a native speaker . I have also acquired by dint of diligent academic endeavour a knowledge of all the literary and linguistic strata of Gaelic from Old Irish down. I'm actually steeped in Gaelic Culture -having won All-Ireland Fleadh and Oireachtas prizes in singing and instrumental disciplines .I've been around long enough to have met Seán O Riordáin ,Seán O Riada, Máirtín O Cadhain and Peig Sayers' son Maidhc File.
In 1964 there was a national campaign called Let The Language Live which involved people going around door-to-door gathering signatures for a petition to the government to redouble their efforts to do the impossible and pull off the miracle of Gaelic Revival.
As a callow youth who had not yet shaken off the stifling mental strait-jacket of a Christian Brothers education -I braved many a suburban canine on this campaign. Enlightenment dawned formeat the end of the 1960s and I managed to extricate myself from this particular form of madness. My personal experience and my training in Linguistics have convinced me of the futility of the Gaelic Revival at all levels. It would require an extended essay to tabulate the hypocrisies ,contradictions and lies of the Gaelic Revival lobby.
Incidentally, you made an interesting point a few pages ago when you mentioned Irish Studies. In 1973 the then Minister of Education
-Richard Burke-floated the idea of courses in schools which would deal with Irish civilisation in general and would have a reduced Gaelic component. I'm hazy on the details now .I think it was intended to run as an alternative to the regular Gaelic course and to serve those with less capacity or inclination to take on the more demanding language-heavy course. It seemed to contain the germ of a good idea roughly akin to courses in Classical Studies which addressed issues in Greek and Roman civilisation but with no necessity to take on the burden of learning Latin. I don't know exactly why but there did not seem to be any political will to establish Irish Studies in the curriculum -although it enjoyed some success at 3rd level. It gradually fizzled out but it might be worth looking at it again.

Aineoil wrote: »

A "deontas" was a grant given to people living in Gaeltacht areas for various

things like building a house for instance. The "deontas" was a big thing in the 1970's.

I am not sure but I don't think it exists anymore. But I stand to be corrected.

I still think there are grants for setting up businesses in Gaeltacht areas. You'll

get more hits on google if you type in "deontaisí".

deontas = grant

deontaisí = grants

I'm not being a smart arse (just answering your question) but if you want to find out more, google the plural word.:D

Thanks for the help

I know there are grants to set up businesses in the west but they're more about getting businesses into a area that's facing depopulation issues. Not really about Irish.

BTW, I googled the plural and the first two pages were Irish results

boardise wrote: »

Incidentally, you made an interesting point a few pages ago when you mentioned Irish Studies. In 1973 the then Minister of Education
-Richard Burke-floated the idea of courses in schools which would deal with Irish civilisation in general and would have a reduced Gaelic component. I'm hazy on the details now .I think it was intended to run as an alternative to the regular Gaelic course and to serve those with less capacity or inclination to take on the more demanding language-heavy course. It seemed to contain the germ of a good idea roughly akin to courses in Classical Studies which addressed issues in Greek and Roman civilisation but with no necessity to take on the burden of learning Latin. I don't know exactly why but there did not seem to be any political will to establish Irish Studies in the curriculum -although it enjoyed some success at 3rd level. It gradually fizzled out but it might be worth looking at it again.

That wouldn't be a bad idea. get rid of compulsory Irish for leaving. Introduce an Irish culture course.
At the same time change the primary school course so it's heavily focused on conversing. And add an Irish culture component to the junior cert as a lead up to it.
Irish would still be available for the leaving cert. It'd be more heavilly focussed on literature.

Wasn't there once a pin or a badge of some description worn by someone who was capable of conversing trí Gaeilge?

I think I read of some such thing. That would be handy enough around Gaeltacht areas

Dughorm wrote: »

And yet that is the reason why Irish is being taught the way it is and failing to get a love for the language across in my opinion.

But you were arguing earlier that lack of utility could not be used as an argument against compulsory Irish on the basis that it was not taught for reasons of utility but nostalgia.

Now you are arguing that teaching Irish for reasons of nostalgia is a problem.

+ Why ?