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Cyclists should do a theory test!

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Comments

  • #752
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    smash wrote: »
    I honestly just don't care any more about this whole argument. It's nonsense. This all stemmed from you saying that you paid to use the roads through your taxes. You didn't. Your taxes paid solely for road construction and maintenance.

    They don't.


  • #753
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    ThisRegard wrote: »
    They don't.
    I know.


  • #754
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    smash wrote: »
    I know.

    I mean that the taxes don't purely pay for roads.


  • #755
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    smash wrote: »
    I honestly just don't care any more about this whole argument. It's nonsense. This all stemmed from you saying that you paid to use the roads through your taxes. You didn't. Your taxes paid solely for road construction and maintenance.

    Yes, we can agree that it's nonsense all right. For the record, I don't think I said that I paid to use the road through my taxes. I did say;
    1) I pay tax - motor tax, income tax, CGT, VAT (including bike purchase, repair and accessories)
    2) Roads are funded from general taxation

    I've no idea how you worked out that "Your taxes paid solely for road construction and maintenance" - what kind of accounting trick is that? Maybe my taxes paid for your hospital bed, or your university lecturer? Or maybe it paid for my road - who knows? The money goes into one pot, and comes out of one pot. Any attribution of what any particular tax goes towards is pure fiction.

    It is helpful that we have clarified that you have absolutely no evidence of any entitlement to use the road arising from payment of motor tax though - thanks for your patience in working through that one.


  • #756
    wexandproud
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭wexandproud


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    To answer the Op's question ......... yes, of course cyclists should do a Theory Test ....... obviously.

    what would be gained by it , if you only read the various threads about cyclists behaviour and you would realise that most motorists who comment on there dont have a basic grasp of the rules of the road . Of course their are cyclists who ignore the rules , the same as their are motorist who choose to do the same but their is an alarming amount of motorist dont even know the rules.


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  • #757
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    RainyDay wrote: »
    I've no idea how you worked out that "Your taxes paid solely for road construction and maintenance" - what kind of accounting trick is that?
    Oh Jesus Christ... I know what taxes pay for, my comment was in relation to the part of your taxes that goes towards road infrastructure. That part of you taxes is used solely for development and maintenance, no for road usage! Clear?
    RainyDay wrote: »
    It is helpful that we have clarified that you have absolutely no evidence of any entitlement to use the road arising from payment of motor tax though - thanks for your patience in working through that one.
    I provided you with the legislation that you asked for over and over and I provided you with the meaning of entitled and how I used the phrase in relation to the legislation in that it gives you a right to use your vehicle on a public road. Now leave it out.


  • #758
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    smash wrote: »
    Oh Jesus Christ... I know what taxes pay for, my comment was in relation to the part of your taxes that goes towards road infrastructure. That part of you taxes is used solely for development and maintenance, no for road usage! Clear?
    Nope - completely unclear. I really have no idea what point you are trying to make here.
    smash wrote: »
    I provided you with the legislation that you asked for over and over and I provided you with the meaning of entitled and how I used the phrase in relation to the legislation in that it gives you a right to use your vehicle on a public road. Now leave it out.
    I didn't ask for legislation over and over. I asked for evidence of entitlement, which if it existed, would probably be within legislation.

    You provided the legislation which showed that there is absolutely no reference to or concept of entitlement relating to motor tax. You also helpfully provided the dictionary definition of entitlement as "a title, right, or claim to something". You correctly pointed out that "Entitlement gives you a right" and that "In order to receive the right to use the vehicle on a public road, you must be compliant with the law" and that "The law states that a vehicle must have a valid motor tax license if it is to be used" - but you still haven't shown any entitlement.

    A legal obligation to pay tax does not create an entitlement. There is no entitlement.


  • #759
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    wexandproud wrote: »
    what would be gained by it , if you only read the various threads about cyclists behaviour and you would realise that most motorists who comment on there dont have a basic grasp of the rules of the road . Of course their are cyclists who ignore the rules , the same as their are motorist who choose to do the same but their is an alarming amount of motorist dont even know the rules.

    What do we stand to lose by cyclists being forced, in some way, to prove that they've at least read the Rules of the Road ........ even once!?!

    Why should motorists have to do a Theory Test in order to share the road with people who may never have even heard of a yellow box junction?!?


  • #760
    wexandproud
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭wexandproud


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    What do we stand to lose by cyclists being forced, in some way, to prove that they've at least read the Rules of the Road ........ even once!?!

    Why should motorists have to do a Theory Test in order to share the road with people who may never have even heard of a yellow box junction?!?

    we would loose nothing but it would not necessarily improve the situation , as the ones who act the bo##ocks would do so any way, and this point is proven by the behaviour of motorists who are supposed to know the rules of the road .


  • #761
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,987 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    What do we stand to lose by cyclists being forced, in some way, to prove that they've at least read the Rules of the Road ........ even once!?!

    Why should motorists have to do a Theory Test in order to share the road with people who may never have even heard of a yellow box junction?!?

    According to my morning commute it is where the last car through the red light sits until they have successfully blocked off crossing traffic and the light sequence goes around again :pac:


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  • #762
    check_six
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,245 ✭✭✭check_six


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Why should motorists have to do a Theory Test in order to share the road with people who may never have even heard of a yellow box junction?!?

    The Theory Test has only existed for 9-10 years. There are a lot of people out there who did a driving test which didn't involve going anywhere near a yellow box junction. There are a lot of people out there who never did a driving test full stop and still got a licence.

    You're not going to block a yellow box junction with a bike, but you just might just manage it with a car.


  • #763
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,780 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    CramCycle wrote: »
    According to my morning commute it is where the last car through the red light sits until they have successfully blocked off crossing traffic and the light sequence goes around again :pac:

    I might need to read the ROR again, I thought with yellow boxes the challenge was to see how many cars you can fit in them?:confused:


  • #764
    wexandproud
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭wexandproud


    CramCycle wrote: »
    According to my morning commute it is where the last car through the red light sits until they have successfully blocked off crossing traffic and the light sequence goes around again :pac:

    stopping in the box is usually accompanied with various forms of hand waving to indicate its not my fault ... the driver in front stopped its his fault ...this is usually done with a stupid grin on their face


  • #765
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    CramCycle wrote: »
    According to my morning commute it is where the last car through the red light sits until they have successfully blocked off crossing traffic and the light sequence goes around again :pac:

    Did you see the red light as you whizzed through it? :P


  • #766
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    check_six wrote: »
    The Theory Test has only existed for 9-10 years. There are a lot of people out there who did a driving test which didn't involve going anywhere near a yellow box junction. There are a lot of people out there who never did a driving test full stop and still got a licence.

    You're not going to block a yellow box junction with a bike, but you just might just manage it with a car.

    14 years ago actually ........... anyway what's your point?

    We didn't always use seatbelts in cars ......... it used to be acceptable to drink & drive ........ times have changed.

    Btw the "yellow box junction" reference in my post wasn't actually about "yellow box junctions"! :D It was to highlight the fact that we don't know for certain if a cyclist (any cyclist) has even read the Rules of the Road.


  • #767
    wexandproud
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭wexandproud


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    14 years ago actually ........... anyway what's your point?

    We didn't always use seatbelts in cars ......... it used to be acceptable to drink & drive ........ times have changed.

    Btw the "yellow box junction" reference in my post wasn't actually about "yellow box junctions"! :D It was to highlight the fact that we don't know for certain if a cyclist (any cyclist) has even read the Rules of the Road.

    im a cyclist and i know what the yellow box is and what its for and how to use them but its still motorists who block them , maby they dont know


  • #768
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    wexandproud wrote: »
    im a cyclist and i know what the yellow box is and what its for and how to use them but its still motorists who block them , maby they dont know

    Eh ........ that's your reply? :confused::D :rolleyes:

    Ok ........ well done on the yellow box junction thingy but can we move on from a moot point at this stage ........... wish I'd never mentioned them!!


  • #769
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    What do we stand to lose by cyclists being forced, in some way, to prove that they've at least read the Rules of the Road ........ even once!?!

    Why should motorists have to do a Theory Test in order to share the road with people who may never have even heard of a yellow box junction?!?

    You'd lose nothing. But it couldn't be compulsory. Would be impossible to legislate for.

    Maybe attendance at a cycle theory day should be a mandatory punishment for someone pulled over by the Gardai for breaking the rules.


  • #770
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    You'd lose nothing. But it couldn't be compulsory. Would be impossible to legislate for.

    Maybe attendance at a cycle theory day should be a mandatory punishment for someone pulled over by the Gardai for breaking the rules.

    The law can always be made compulsory ........ that's the point in having laws! :D


  • #771
    LadyFenghuang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 853 ✭✭✭LadyFenghuang


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    The law can always be made compulsory ........ that's the point in having laws! :D

    Love is the law baby!

    No I would be all for cyclists having to do a course and a theory and practical test. Hear me out. A LOT of cyclists are YOUNG people. We need to protect them by doing more than making them wear helmets. I cycled to secondary school a lot and for the first two years of college. I came off hard twice. Once it was no one's fault. The road was LITERALLY in bits. There was more hole than road.

    And that is another issue.Ireland has specific ahem challenges for both motorists and cyclists. FOR YEARS there was a road near me which when they put cycle paths in no two cars could pass going the opposite direction without going into the paths because they never widened the road to accommodate the two modes of transport. It was local common knowledge, and motorists would beep to give warning of traffic. The most terrible thing was though it was right by two schools. So there were a lot of young cyclists.

    I think having a course and theory test in schools would be a great idea.


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  • #772
    wexandproud
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭wexandproud


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Eh ........ that's your reply? :confused::D :rolleyes:

    Ok ........ well done on the yellow box junction thingy but can we move on from a moot point at this stage ........... wish I'd never mentioned them!!

    you can roll eyes all ya want , but you posed the question if any cyclists knew or even read the rotr. my post was a reply to it


  • #773
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    The law can always be made compulsory ........ that's the point in having laws! :D

    But not much good if it's unenforcable. Which it is. Unless you are looking at applying it only within some arbitrary city limit. Or should it apply equally to an 80 year old farmer in Offaly who cycles a mile for a guiness on a Saturday night? And if not where do you draw the line? And scrapping Dublin bikes of course (or criminalising tourists). Which will never happen


  • #774
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    wexandproud wrote: »
    you can roll eyes all ya want , but you posed the question if any cyclists knew or even read the rotr. my post was a reply to it

    No ........ I asked "How do we know if a cyclist has even read the Rules of the Road?" ......... you got confused by all the words and lil yellow boxes me thinks. :)


  • #775
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    But not much good if it's unenforcable. Which it is. Unless you are looking at applying it only within some arbitrary city limit. Or should it apply equally to an 80 year old farmer in Offaly who cycles a mile for a guiness on a Saturday night? And if not where do you draw the line? And scrapping Dublin bikes of course (or criminalising tourists). Which will never happen

    The same way we enforce an 80 year old farmer in Offaly needing a driving license to drive a car ......... :confused:


  • #776
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    The same way we enforce an 80 year old farmer in Offaly needing a driving license to drive a car ......... :confused:

    You're actually serious? That you would criminalise this guy for cycling to the pub. Or make him do a theory test. Truly unbelievable!!

    And dublin bikes? You'd scrap those?

    Anyway, never going to happen


  • #777
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Grandpa Hassan wrote: »
    You're actually serious? That you would criminalise this guy for cycling to the pub. Or make him do a theory test. Truly unbelievable!!

    And dublin bikes? You'd scrap those?

    Anyway, never going to happen



  • #778
    Grandpa Hassan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    MadDog76 wrote: »

    Ha. Funny video. Your point? Given that no cyclist would defend that behavior. And if the Gardai saw him he'd be in trouble


  • #779
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    check_six wrote: »
    The Theory Test has only existed for 9-10 years.

    I did my test in 1986, and there was definitely a theory test. It was done orally with the examiner, some questions ["You don't enter a yellow box junction if you would block traffic that would otherwise be free to proceed" is stuck in my head, and then you had to identify signs from ROTR.
    wexandproud wrote: »
    stopping in the box is usually accompanied with various forms of hand waving to indicate its not my fault ... the driver in front stopped its his fault ...
    Yes, that's the funny bit - it's the fault of the guy in front!


  • #780
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    LadyFenghuang wrote: »
    No I would be all for cyclists having to do a course and a theory and practical test. Hear me out. A LOT of cyclists are YOUNG people. We need to protect them by doing more than making them wear helmets.
    You know that helmets aren't required by law, right? And that those countries that brought in mandatory helmet laws generally showed no reduced injury rates but did manage to reduce rates of people cycling - which makes cycling even more dangerous for the rest of us.
    MadDog76 wrote: »
    What do we stand to lose by cyclists being forced, in some way, to prove that they've at least read the Rules of the Road ........ even once!?!
    We lose the opportunity to reduce the death and injury rate on the roads caused by motorists. By focusing policy makers, legislators and Garda enforcers on the question of cycle theory tests, we take resources away from cutting the 200+ deaths and thousands of injuries caused by motorists each year.

    What problem will this solve again?


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  • #781
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,987 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Did you see the red light as you whizzed through it? :P

    I was waiting at the crossing junction, I was able to go around, you know, and not hold up traffic, unfortunately for the other 10 cars behind me, they are now the beginning of the traffic jam that will be 30 cars long within 10 minutes.


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