Abortions for 3,735, minature flags for nobody

You know what's really irksome about these debates, it's that the vast majority of reasons of just why it is that women choose to have an abortion these days, are rarely if ever mentioned. Instead, what we get is the sanctimonious and shameful use of rare cases where women, that should have been been able to receive an abortion, were denied one.

I'd have no issue with abortions up to the 11th or 12th week. I'd vote for that given the choice and higher should the mother's life be in genuine danger but I sincerely hope to fcuk that the day never comes in this country where a woman that is almost six months pregnant can walk into a clinic and have that baby aborted, as it is in the UK.

Now I know I will get flack for using the word 'baby' here and that's to be expected as there is nothing the so called 'pro choice' folks hate more than graphic descriptions of just what is at stake with an abortion. They would much rather see abortion (at no matter what stage of the pregnancy) described in very clinical ways, using words such as fetus and termination etc. That way the reality that an unborn developing human (that can move it's fingers, arms, legs and toes, and respond also to external stimuli) is having it's life in the womb ended, along also of course with the possibility of having one outside it, can easily be ignored.

In 2013 almost 44% of women in their mid to late 20s in the UK that had an abortion, had already had one. That figures jumps to 47% for the ages of 30 to 35 and 45% in the over 35’s. To put real numbers to that, in 2012 50,000 women in the UK that had an abortion had already had one. The most disgusting stat of all though is that of all the abortions that were carried out between the 20 to 24 week stage (that's between five and six months pregnant to make it a little less clinical) almost two thirds of these abortions were carried out simply because the woman did not want to proceed with the pregnancy for reasons other than the baby's health. In other words, no fetal abnormalities etc, which we are quite often told are the usually the main reason for abortions at this late stage in the UK.

Let's be honest, abortion is being used as a means of birth control and it needs to stop. Two million abortions in the UK in the last ten years. The numbers are a disgrace. The UK should lower the abortion limit also. It's barbaric that a child in the womb that has over a 25% of surviving if they were lucky enough to be born premature 76 out of 332 born at 23 weeks survived in 2011) could in fact have it's life ended at that same stage instead, should that is, it's mother decide to have them aborted instead.

tl;dr

We need sensible abortion laws in Ireland. Mimicking the UK is far from the answer.

NachoBusiness wrote: »

The most disgusting stat of all though is that of all the abortions that were carried out between the 20 to 24 week stage (that's between five and six months pregnant to make it a little less clinical) almost two thirds of these abortions were carried out simply because the woman did not want to proceed with the pregnancy for reasons other than the baby's health. In other words, no fetal abnormalities etc, which we are quite often told are the usually the main reason for abortions at this late stage in the UK.

I posted similar in another thread on AH recently suprise suprise it was not replied too :rolleyes:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=95798201

It doesn't suit the narrative that some of the more fundamental pro-choice want to portray, its as lazy and dishonest an argument as any picture of tiny baby hands the pro-life side will push out, the difference is the pro-choicers claim to hold the moral high ground of being logical and rational and not needing to falsify arguments.

From a practical point of view, I don't see much difference between using birth control and having an abortion.

Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »

There is no way a vote would pass abortion, not a chance. There are enough decent people left in the country to see to that.

I'm not so sure. I can imagine the no side would put up a nasty fight, perhaps alienating a lot of people. I'd predict a low enough turnout but a pass.

Un Croissant wrote: »

I'm not so sure. I can imagine the no side would put up a nasty fight, perhaps alienating a lot of people. I'd predict a low enough turnout but a pass.

Really depends what you mean by "abortion".
Fetal disorders, would definitely pass provided its not like the UK with its wide definitions.
For victims of rape, would 90% pass.

With a fairly restrictive say 14-16 weeks time limit I could see elective abortion possibly passing dependent on other conditions attached by bill.

A UK style law I just wouldn't see passing, you can't successfully ridicule the slippery slope argument when your sitting next door to one of the best examples of it.

Its a different debate to Gay marriage/Divorce and doesn't cleave as easily down idealogical lines as you might expect.
People tend to self censor about the topic but I know people that are strongly atheist social liberals that would be pretty strongly pro-life but you wouldn't know it unless you actually knew them well as its presumed if your under 35 and fit the rest of that profile your broadly pro-life.
Then you have the pragmatic view point which might influence people, despite my posting I'd probably vote for a German style system because to me it seems like the best in terms of harm reduction for everyone involved.

Yadiel Nutritious Apartment wrote: »

There is no way a vote would pass abortion, not a chance. There are enough decent people left in the country to see to that.

Funny, that's just the reason I think the vote would pass.

People often surprise you. Many years ago a neighbour, deeply Catholic, family rosary every night, said to me "They should bring in abortion here, the doctors here could do with the money, why let England have it all."