Texas Police Officer Pulls Gun On Teens

Nodin · 08-06-2015 05:05PM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Here's the TJ roll in all it's glory for anyone unfamiliar with it.....

And let it be noted that was done with a toupe that could have - at any second - flown off.

darkpagandeath · 08-06-2015 05:08PM

I thought Sledge Hammer! would be more appropriate.

Overheal · 08-06-2015 05:33PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

She resisted arrest so he needed to use force to subdue her.

He lost his temper. Just because he's a cop doesn't mean he's acting within his parameters. There are some professions - especially law enforcement - where your own emotions should be removed from a situation. The calm officer shown speaking to the videographer in turn has a calming effect on the situation, whereas Barrel-rolls McSwinney has an escalating effect on the situation.

Pulling the gun is a separate issue, and when you watch the video it's understandable, he turned to see two guys running at him, one reaching for his pocket. There's a reason why the other two cops chased these two. You're an idiot and asking for what you get if you run at a cop.

Maybe he thought the teen was an Al Qaeda operative reaching for a detonator? :rolleyes: As for the other 2 cops, before they pursue the 2 kids, they can be seen making body contact with Barrel-rolls McSwinney, most likely to instill a brief moment of common sense in him. Whipping a gun out on swimsuit kids is like calling the Megazord in on a goonsquad of Rita's putties: overkill (and against Zordon's rules of engagement).

Those who are continuing to fan the flames of 'police brutality' are facing the problem that trying to make a big deal out of every situation where there's a white cop and black suspect totally waters down their argument when so many of the cases the cop's actions are at worst a grey area or many times totally understandable/justified.

You might have had me there if this wasn't just among a handful of high profile cases sweeping through the US right now. It started with Treyvon Martin, rolled on to Fergusson MO, and we've had riots breaking out in towns and cities over time. There are serious race relation issues in the US currently, and the more you hear about the harder it is to sweep it under the rug and say 'Ah [the victims] have been asking for it.' Now of course you do have chicken-v-egg conundrums in who is really more mad at who, but in most of these situations the ability to escalate or deescalate the situation lies far inside the wheelhouse of police officers.

Egginacup · 08-06-2015 05:35PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

The trouble with people recording with smartphones is you only see one side of the story, having said that though in this case he seemed a bit heavy handed with the kid.

How can there be two (or more) sides to video evidence?
Cop bullies and forces girl to the ground and kneels on her. What kind of sick arsehole does that? He's recorded doing it. Where is the other side to the story? She was a threat to National Security or some nonsense?

Son Of A Vidic · 08-06-2015 05:37PM

rottie 11 wrote: »

What a dickhead that cop. He attacks the girl just for standing there?

Officer Overreact probably thought she had a concealed weapon somewhere in her bikini. Possibly even an AK47

mikom · 08-06-2015 05:39PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Officer Overreact probably thought she had a concealed weapon somewhere in her bikini. Possibly even an AK47

Bazookas.....

Son Of A Vidic · 08-06-2015 05:40PM

mikom wrote: »

Bazookas.....

Two of them........allegedly.

Iwasfrozen · 08-06-2015 05:41PM

What's this thing of being made to sit on the ground? I wouldn't sit on the ground unless they forced me to.

Overheal · 08-06-2015 05:41PM

My hypothesis would be he succumbed to his own emotions and amped up andrenal response when the girl probably said something or did something that pissed him off. That undermined his authority and his view he had to shove his foot up some ass to restore order - which, is completely false, but he felt the best thing to do in the situation was run around, barrel roll, wave his gun, drop f-bombs at the public, etc.

JaffOs · 08-06-2015 05:43PM

MathDebater wrote: »

Canada released a quota of 4k working holiday visas last month for Irish citizens.

They were gone within 12 minutes.

No offence to Canada, lovely country and all as it is, but in Irish people's eyes it's largely seen as second best when compared to the US. A huge splice of our 18-30 year old population would love to move there if given the opportunity. The numbers in Australia and Canada would be dwarfed if they made it easier for Irish citizens to emigrate there.

Personally that is the direct opposite for me so I wouldnt be say that its largely seen as second best.

Egginacup · 08-06-2015 05:46PM

Wompa1 wrote: »

I've been living over here for 3.5 years. It's been my experience that some less than qualified people with military backgrounds get hired into positions that regular civilians with the same qualifications would not. Companies get tax credits for hiring veterans. They also get the draw of saying we hire veterans (Patriots love that sh1t)

Does this go on in the police forces though? I'm not so sure.

I have a friend serving in the forces. He's looking forward to finishing up. He's sick of his commanders and the way they get treated by superiors. Poor b@stard doesn't realize most companies middle managers are ex military. There's no escaping it.

As for the police. It's not just a white on black thing. Poor white people are discriminated against too.

It's also not all police. I've had to speak to a few police officers. Only once when I was on the wrong end, though. But that one time, I was polite and respectful. He was very friendly to me.

The only time I was physically assaulted by a police officer was in Galway

Did she batter you? :pac:

Overheal · 08-06-2015 05:51PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What's this thing of being made to sit on the ground? I wouldn't sit on the ground unless they forced me to.

See, that is a case of authority: complying with a reasonable order, the kids may have done something wrong or their own sense of self-preservation was that it was wiser not to disobey. And for a black male in the USA, I hardly blame him. I've seen more than a couple videos just from the last 12 months where a cop will shoot a black male WHILE he is complying with a police order. An example from North Charleston, where the cop tells the guy to get his license, and in complying with this command, the guy is shot for reaching for his wallet.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sean-groubert-former-south-carolina-trooper-charged-in-shooting/

He still awaits a verdict, his lawyers are dicking the system and delaying for the most time allowable under law: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/trial-verdict-extended-ex-south-carolina-cop. His own recorded testimony of the incident was in complete contravention to the dash cam video - he's going away for a good long while.

darkpagandeath · 08-06-2015 05:55PM

Egginacup wrote: »

How can there be two (or more) sides to video evidence?
Cop bullies and forces girl to the ground and kneels on her. What kind of sick arsehole does that? He's recorded doing it. Where is the other side to the story? She was a threat to National Security or some nonsense?

You mean 2 sides like that Garda homeless guy ? That people cried at.

Egginacup · 08-06-2015 05:55PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Why's the thread titled "Gun Happy American cops"?

The police officer was surrounded whilst making an arrest, he looked like he was about to be assaulted by the two blokes on the right.
And it looked like one of them was reaching into his pocket for something.
So he was justified in drawing his gun IMHO.

The girl that was pushed to the ground was told to leave the area several times from what I can see in the video.
And I'd guess a lot more times than that by other police officers and probably by private security.
From the video it looks like she walking back to the officer and saying something to her when he finally arrested her.

It seems like someone organised a party where they shouldn't, loads of people turned up and then it turned into a disaster.
People are trying to spin it as a "white people/cops oppressing black people".
Here's a video of the party promoter having a fight with someone else.

Why should she leave the area? If she is told to leave the area then she is obviously free to go, i.e. has committed no crime. Was she trespassing?

Overheal · 08-06-2015 05:58PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Why should she leave the area? If she is told to leave the area then she is obviously free to go, i.e. has committed no crime. Was she trespassing?

So long as a bystander is not obstructing an officer's ability to do his/her job, a bystander can legally be wherever they want.

This fact of law is usually ignored by bad cops - some cops will cross the street of a traffic stop to confront someone videotaping them for instance, even though videotaping in public is 100% legal and constitutional, and has no ability to interfere with an officer's ability to perform their duties on a scene.

Wompa1 · 08-06-2015 05:58PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

She only gets dragged along the pavement because she resists arrest. He's putting her arm behind her back and she squirms and fights him which leads to them being on the pavement. If you want to draw a nice comparison, look what happens to the other kids that do what they're told. Is he supposed to let her go because she doesn't want to be arrested and now wants to leave the area?

So you believe you have the right to do whatever you want to a police officer if your opinion in the heat of the moment is that you dont agree with him. This is not only idiotic but it would lead to absolute anarchy.

Your post is typical of what I spoke about in the last. Moaning about police brutality when they're only responding to the actions they are faced with when they use a softer touch. It makes a mockery of legitimate brutality cases.

If he's that weak that he can't put her hand behind her back and keep it there, without dragging her along the ground and shoving her head into the ground. The police force has even bigger problems.

I never said anything about having the right to do anything to a cop. I just said I can understand the two guys reaction to what the cop was doing. I beleive the officer drawing his gun was much, much more inappropriate and aggressive.

He didn't need to pull a gun. Police officers have an array of non-lethal weapons. He didn't need to shove the girls head into the ground or drag her across the pavement. He was bigger and stronger than her and it wasn't like anybody was trying to stop him UNTIL he started to get overly aggressive with her.

There was a case in Tempe, Arizona. Where I live. A lady 'resisted arrest'...her crime was Jaywalking on a busy street. Traffic was at a standstill at the time. The lady couldn't beleive she was being arrested so her reaction was to turn around to face the cop to speak with him. He lifted her up and slammed her onto the back of the car.

The lady brought a case and won. Sometimes your reaction to being arrested is WTF!?, it's a pretty natural response

Shortly after Michael Brown, a police officer also shot a young black guy that he thought was holding a gun....the guy had a pill bottle in his hand.

The same day some nut job when on a shooting spree in Mesa, Arizona. A lady with priors was found by cops at a petrol station in the parking lot. They surrounded the car she was sitting in. She was in the car and they just unloaded their guns on her.

This is a weekly occurence here. It's not right. I don't believe it is racial...I said that in previous posts. It's class warfare. In the US the tax system in very granular. Your property tax goes towards your local community. It pays for the schools YOUR kids go to, it pays for your local services etc. The more expensive the homes, the higher property tax, the better the schools, the better the infrastructure, the better the services.

So you've got kids from upper middle class and upper class going to better schools and getting advantages kids from less affluent areas cannot get. What's worse, the system is being tilted even further from the disadvantaged.

You can't get a private pension in a job a new job any more. Unless it's a state job. State jobs just like in Ireland are who you know, not what you know in many cases.

A third level education has never cost more.

The myth about Obamacare is that it's socialized medicine. I worked for an insurance company when this was rolled out. The money they started to see was incredible. It's not social in any way. It's government mandated Health Insurance. If I don't have health insurance for 12 consecutive months of the year and worth a certain deductible. I could have to pay a $2k fine when tax season rolls around next April. The only good thing about Obamacare is that insurance companies have to accept you, even if you have a pre-existing condition. It's still not cheap! In some cases, Obamacare is slightly cheaper than going through insurance without that market place but for the most part it's the same price but with less choice of Dr's you can see.

What can somebody from a disadvantaged neighborhood do?

1.) Work incredibly hard and hope that you're one of the few that gets a full ride scholarship to one of the extortionary schools. Or try to get a loan to go to a Community college and hope you can get a job somewhere. Community colleges tend to cater to a limited scope.

2.) Join the military. Free education, Free Healthcare and a Retirement. Things that aren't available for regular citizens. Also they get a lot of admiration by people that don't realize they are feeding into this vicious system

3.) Work a crap job and stay in your disadvantaged life in which you are treated like a second class citizen

4.) Commit crimes in the hopes of making more money than you could at your crap job.

It's my opinion that if you give people genuine opportunities they will cease them. People here do not want to give people in disadvantaged areas opportunities. There's a belief that everybody here creates their own opportunities...that's not true. Minimum wage workers get dumped on at work and then in the media and by people when they want better pay and working conditions. It's a losing battle here. People are right to be angry

Iwasfrozen · 08-06-2015 05:59PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Why should she leave the area? If she is told to leave the area then she is obviously free to go, i.e. has committed no crime. Was she trespassing?

Yes. Those kids where trespassing in a private pool inside a gated community.

darkpagandeath · 08-06-2015 05:59PM

Egginacup wrote: »

Why should she leave the area? If she is told to leave the area then she is obviously free to go, i.e. has committed no crime. Was she trespassing?

Drunk and disorderly it was a party assume they were intoxicated, Police around the world usually tell you to go home I.E give you a chance not to get a night in jail.

Iwasfrozen · 08-06-2015 06:01PM

Overheal wrote: »

See, that is a case of authority: complying with a reasonable order, the kids may have done something wrong or their own sense of self-preservation was that it was wiser not to disobey. And for a black male in the USA, I hardly blame him. I've seen more than a couple videos just from the last 12 months where a cop will shoot a black male WHILE he is complying with a police order. An example from North Charleston, where the cop tells the guy to get his license, and in complying with this command, the guy is shot for reaching for his wallet.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sean-groubert-former-south-carolina-trooper-charged-in-shooting/

He still awaits a verdict, his lawyers are dicking the system and delaying for the most time allowable under law: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/trial-verdict-extended-ex-south-carolina-cop. His own recorded testimony of the incident was in complete contravention to the dash cam video - he's going away for a good long while.

I wouldn't call forcing someone to sit on the ground a reasonable order. The police are essentially making the person deal with them in a subordinate position.

darkpagandeath · 08-06-2015 06:03PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I wouldn't call forcing someone to sit on the ground a reasonable order. The police are essentially making the person deal with them in a subordinate position.

Seen it plenty of times when dealing with a group of people is harder to get up and run away when cuffed.

Overheal · 08-06-2015 06:05PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Drunk and disorderly it was a party assume they were intoxicated, Police around the world usually tell you to go home I.E give you a chance not to get a night in jail.

uhm, no.

This isn't Ireland, nor are we talking about a college fraternity. We can assume that not all social gatherings under the label "party" are flowing with rivers of booze. Surprisingly to some, alcohol is not such a large part of the US culture that it is included at every social gathering. "A skate park!? Those kids will be doing shots of everclear and grinding rails!!" If a report comes out that mentions alcohol as a contributing factor, great; but lets not automatically assume that without any basis, yeah?

Shortly after Michael Brown, a police officer also shot a young black guy that he thought was holding a gun....the guy had a pill bottle in his hand.

I could totally see how a pill bottle would be drastically similar in profile to a glock..

Iwasfrozen · 08-06-2015 06:06PM

Wompa1 wrote: »

What can somebody from a disadvantaged neighborhood do?

1.) Work incredibly hard and hope that you're one of the few that gets a full ride scholarship to one of the extortionary schools. Or try to get a loan to go to a Community college and hope you can get a job somewhere. Community colleges tend to cater to a limited scope.

2.) Join the military. Free education, Free Healthcare and a Retirement. Things that aren't available for regular citizens. Also they get a lot of admiration by people that don't realize they are feeding into this vicious system

3.) Work a crap job and stay in your disadvantaged life in which you are treated like a second class citizen

4.) Commit crimes in the hopes of making more money than you could at your crap job.

It's my opinion that if you give people genuine opportunities they will cease them. People here do not want to give people in disadvantaged areas opportunities. There's a belief that everybody here creates their own opportunities...that's not true. Minimum wage workers get dumped on at work and then in the media and by people when they want better pay and working conditions. It's a losing battle here. People are right to be angry

Honestly for any fit male number 2 is by far the best option. Free education and when you get out you'll be favoured by private employers.

Iwasfrozen · 08-06-2015 06:07PM

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Seen it plenty of times when dealing with a group of people is harder to get up and run away when cuffed.

As if a person is going to run away in handcuffs. Besides they're teenagers, they don't need their hands to stand up.

Overheal · 08-06-2015 06:09PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I wouldn't call forcing someone to sit on the ground a reasonable order. The police are essentially making the person deal with them in a subordinate position.

well, you are in a subordinate position, when you're an involved element on a police scene. How officers handle that is of course all different. The cool-headed flashlight cop in the video for instance commanded more authority by asking people to do things, rather than dictating it to them - a measured response that respects the fact that a lot of the people who are otherwise in potential trouble for trespassing, are still acting calmly

darkpagandeath · 08-06-2015 06:10PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

As if a person is going to run away in handcuffs. Besides they're teenagers, they don't need their hands to stand up.

:pac:

Iwasfrozen · 08-06-2015 06:12PM

Overheal wrote: »

well, you are in a subordinate position, when you're an involved element on a police scene. How officers handle that is of course all different. The cool-headed flashlight cop in the video for instance commanded more authority by asking people to do things, rather than dictating it to them - a measured response that respects the fact that a lot of the people who are otherwise in potential trouble for trespassing, are still acting calmly

A person can be in trouble and still stand. Forcing people to sit on the ground is unnecessary.

Overheal · 08-06-2015 06:13PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Honestly for any fit male number 2 is by far the best option. Free education and when you get out you'll be favoured by private employers.

Or be employed by law enforcement.

Do you not see the cycle here?

Add to that we don't give veterans nearly the care they deserve. But anyway, we're just ignoring the fact that disadvantaged people are still funneled into a handful of life choices. In contrast, I was basically told by family and aptitude that I could do essentially whatever the fcuk I wanted. I can snub a job that pays double the minimum wage. Not many people have that option, and their living expenses often mean that all the money they take in goes right back out, and worse than that can often cause them to incur more debt such as in the case of payday lending schemes which keep snaking through loopholes in law.

Overheal · 08-06-2015 06:18PM

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

A person can be in trouble and still stand. Forcing people to sit on the ground is unnecessary.

Nope, still siding with the cops on this one. Someone sitting is someone you've already addressed; in a crowd situation (presumably there were more people nearby than seen in the video) when you are outcounted by the number of people you are trying to calm or control, you have to take reasonable measures to manage the situation. Asking someone to sit is not akin to excessive force or police brutality. It's kinda like staying in your seat during a traffic stop, you would be ill advised to step out without direction and give your legs a stretch.

darkpagandeath · 08-06-2015 06:19PM

RTE pulling out the Race card.

Areyouwell · 08-06-2015 06:21PM

MathDebater wrote: »

Young Irish people love bitching about America but would take the hand off of you if you offered them a H1-b/greencard.

Love the generalisation there. It's been a while since I'v been called young, so I'll gladly take it.

Texas Police Officer Pulls Gun On Teens

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