Cork GAA Discussion Thread

thinkstoomuch1 · 06-06-2015 01:29PM

youngbob wrote: »

O Mahony is a big loss. If Harnedy has to go off in the first half because of his hamstring it will be a bigger loss. 1) Cork will have to use one of their subs.2) Waterford know O Mahony will not be starting, their replacement had time to get in the right frame of mind to start but for Harnedy to go off early could deflate this Cork team, even though they are Munster Champions

Exactly so there's strong talk he may not even start he's not fit
If we can start him cork have to chance him but if risk injury getting worse no
Problem is if starts what level is he st
Eighty per cent would be even better some cork lads

Do you now agree I have reason like you said here cork are very likely loose tommorrow
So I think it's fair to say you now hopefully will appreciate I'm not playing it smart but looking at cork problems
You said it here yourself very unlikely cork win without harnedy
And add lorcan and it's huge ask
I think it's fair to say your now sharing the same view as myself
And you will find regards horgan also we do tend to have similar views on that topic also
I think unfortunately love be wrong so wrong waterford by a few points

youngbob · 06-06-2015 01:37PM

TTM I might be in the minority on this Cork thread with all the posts from outside but I still give Cork a good chance. JBM & co had 4wks to get their game plan in order. As for Cork still being favs 5wks after a 10pt beating says more about Waterford fans fear of going into Paddy Powers than it does of the bookies being afraid of a backlash from the leeside

thinkstoomuch1 · 06-06-2015 01:45PM

youngbob wrote: »

TTM I might be in the minority on this Cork thread with all the posts from outside but I still give Cork a good chance. JBM & co had 4wks to get their game plan in order. As for Cork still being favs 5wks after a 10pt beating says more about Waterford fans fear of going into Paddy Powers than it does of the bookies being afraid of a backlash from the leeside

Fair points and there's Is to be fair hard to debate that
Cork everything has to click tommorrow and we have to hope no defender gets injured or if cahalane goes off or if Murphy doesn't get to the pace of the game and I dont blame him as he's throw in at the deep end to be fair or Mcdonnell doesn't get taken st full back we have little defence cover and Burke who fine player and Ryan should got games their confidence can't be good seeing Murphy start
I see our forwards all scoring potential lacking a man makes it all tick

All blacks with out macaw are a shadow of themselves
Harnedy is cork macaw and the heartbeat the forwards
Huge ask tommorrow
Winning in such circumstances would be massive boost to cork and would also deflated waterford hugely
I agree a plan is good but you still need the best players to carry it out
You can design the best building in the world but unless you have the best people to build it design means nothing then it's just fiction in truth than a beautiful magnitude of reality

Cork must have a plan tommorrow even if we loose
I totally agree

It makes sense · 06-06-2015 01:54PM

youngbob wrote: »

TTM I might be in the minority on this Cork thread with all the posts from outside but I still give Cork a good chance. JBM & co had 4wks to get their game plan in order. As for Cork still being favs 5wks after a 10pt beating says more about Waterford fans fear of going into Paddy Powers than it does of the bookies being afraid of a backlash from the leeside

Great discussion Cork can win as any team can play well on the day and the other team dips slightly I would never worry about the other team too much as you cannot effect their starting 15 or they defined tactics until the match starts. IMO cork are not favourites to win based on their league final display as I do not think they were shadow boxing they got beat fair and square by the better team.

Bringing back Murphy although a great player in the past shows where JBM thinks the state of cork hurling is in not trusting his younger players, Waterford have no problem with a 19 year starting at centre back JBM does not trust or think we have other options. Cork need to work their socks off and be aggressive starting from the front and working backwards I hope they have this big game in them but tomorrow will tell.

thinkstoomuch1 · 06-06-2015 01:59PM

It makes sense wrote: »

Great discussion Cork can win as any team can play well on the day and the other team dips slightly I would never worry about the other team too much as you cannot effect their starting 15 or they defined tactics until the match starts. IMO cork are not favourites to win based on their league final display as I do not think they were shadow boxing they got beat fair and square by the better team.

Bringing back Murphy although a great player in the past shows where JBM thinks the state of cork hurling is in not trusting his younger players, Waterford have no problem with a 19 year starting at centre back JBM does not trust or think we have other options. Cork need to work their socks off and be aggressive starting from the front and working backwards I hope they have this big game in them but tomorrow will tell.

I'd agree cork work rate has to be very good
My fear is if we have to go the bench if harnedy is out cronin starts so if need a ball winner or a defender during the game were in trouble

Clare with a much stronger panel then cork suffered from all there lads out and cork imo that's the worry tommorrow

Hurleratheart · 06-06-2015 02:05PM

Alf Tupper wrote: »

Great article by Enda McEvoy in the Examiner, basically saying what all fair minded people have been saying about tomorrow's game.

Pressure all on Cork.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/enda-mcevoy-it-is-not-an-equally-big-match-for-both-sides-cork-simply-have-to-win-334980.html

Enjoy mcEvoys writing

Respected analyst

article entertaining and for sure Cork and JBM have to step up tomorrow o
Lehane needs to make presence felt
I hope we will edge it

thinkstoomuch1 · 06-06-2015 02:12PM

Hurleratheart wrote: »

Enjoy mcEvoys writing

Respected analyst

article entertaining and for sure Cork and JBM have to step up tomorrow o
Lehane needs to make presence felt
I hope we will edge it

He is top article writer but he's always harsh on cork and he's from kk so that's evident at times he's writing
He absolutely tore tippeary to shreds after loss cork munster ist round in June five years ago and tipp won the all Ireland

He said injury had huge effect kk two years ago and he's right but by same token needs to understand that for cork tommorrow

Lehane be fair has stood up last year even against tipp wasn't the worst performer
Horgan is the one that needs to step it up in nearly five more years senior lehane and he's flattering to deceive in club and county games lehane be fair gave outstanding county final and semi when horgan was absolutely awful last year for the glen and in the closing stages of the game a few weeks ago
Lehane doesn't need to prove himself as much horgan has to or simply has to be dropped really and truly

youngbob · 06-06-2015 02:44PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

He is top article writer but he's always harsh on cork and he's from kk so that's evident at times he's writing
He absolutely tore tippeary to shreds after loss cork munster ist round in June five years ago and tipp won the all Ireland

He said injury had huge effect kk two years ago and he's right but by same token needs to understand that for cork tommorrow

Lehane be fair has stood up last year even against tipp wasn't the worst performer
Horgan is the one that needs to step it up in nearly five more years senior lehane and he's flattering to deceive in club and county games lehane be fair gave outstanding county final and semi when horgan was absolutely awful last year for the glen and in the closing stages of the game a few weeks ago
Lehane doesn't need to prove himself as much horgan has to or simply has to be dropped really and truly

Lehane needs a big game tomorrow as does Horgan. I wouldn't criticize any player if they aren't good enough but what I hate to see is a player giving up and in a few games both these players have been guilty of that. I know Conor did ok in AI semi last year but with him I always expect more. If both of them were as hard working as Cooper and Harnedy it would take some team to hold them. I would have loved to see Lehane take the free in the league. if Hoggie misses a couple of frees it seems to effect his whole game

thinkstoomuch1 · 06-06-2015 02:51PM

youngbob wrote: »

Lehane needs a big game tomorrow as does Horgan. I wouldn't criticize any player if they aren't good enough but what I hate to see is a player giving up and in a few games both these players have been guilty of that. I know Conor did ok in AI semi last year but with him I always expect more. If both of them were as hard working as Cooper and Harnedy it would take some team to hold them. I would have loved to see Lehane take the free in the league. if Hoggie misses a couple of frees it seems to effect his whole game

I'd agree totally attuide has to be right

Lehane be fair and I blamed jbm for it playing lehane full forward never going to work but he's settled at half forward
He needs to be good tommorrow but horgan no excuse absolutely none as was vice captain cork etc needs to lead
He's attuide at times is poor and only way you solve that you bust he's bubble can't be dropped
You drop him and that's it and you tell him has performed for glen and cork before he free taking again
Nash takes longer distance frees and penalties and lehane the other frees
If he fails performance tommorrow I wouldn't think twice about dropping him and it be best thing happens him and it would make him a better players

thinkstoomuch1 · 06-06-2015 02:56PM

Other thing to remember is when cork recently got to all Ireland final and pushed clare as far as they could he was not holding back to call cork average enough before the dust settled on the games and while he's merit in he's points fact remains he is ruthless once it's cork or tipp imo so McEvoy normally doesn't favour cork on past records and I dont expect such in the future either

He used man sending off v Dublin as turning point game when it wasn't and failed mentioned horgan sending off v limerick
When waterford do loose and it won't be tommorrow I hope he's as ruthless assessment to them as he can be to tipp and cork

I always get a sense some kk pundits ruthless to teams beat them like cork beat KK so probably didn't go down well with them
Tippeary imo six years ago were seen major threat kk so he was well able on one defeat to really be sevre tipp and was putting pressure on them that huge huge problems
Tipperary won the all Ireland with sheedy

I have a view like we see with kerry some pundit talk cork up are doing it as they don't truly fear cork in battle in football
Waterford being talked up fair enough but I would find it hard to believe if kk played waterford mcceovy would fear waterford

Brennan is imo exception with Cinnede who I think normally call it as it is and are brilliant pundits

To be fair to him he was ruthless and correctly say waterford team years back was like orchestra with no bass section in he's words in the article today

They were a very very very good teams no body can ever take that away with few great player but never be remembered as great great team as that's privledge rightly so reserved for champions and Waterford on their records fine comfort zones munster but never hit those heights in croke park bar once with Davy but the great teams perform in croke park

thinkstoomuch1 · 06-06-2015 03:52PM

http://www.irishpost.co.uk/sport/cork-need-to-start-asking-different-questions-if-they-want-new-answers
A good read
I have always said last two years cork have to go sweeper system and poession game as it would suit cork players available
If jbm doesn't play sweeper or system tomorrow and goes orthodox freestyle then after acknowledge he wrong v tipp etc I do believe for that reason he should review he's term

But I geuinely believe with landers there he nor naive to know cork need a plan tommorrow and he devised one v clare last year so I expect a system tomorrow
If cork do that but loose and it down to defence then imo cork hsve hope with fully fit team
Harnedy and lorcan out means imo cork have no choice play system also so have to play one

Cork lost tipp last year due to management getting it all wrong
They at least we're honest and humble enough to admit that and I respect them for it and no talk about review or simulation process they said it straight they were wrong just like Jim gavin for Dublin after donegal defeat
Gavin learned from he's mistakes which made he's apologies more acceptable

Jbm owes cork hurling absolutely nothing but if he keeps making tactical mistakes over and over again he deserves to be questioned
Full back I allow him some le way as Joyce Spillane all injured and cahalane also during the year
He can't be faulted for lorcan or harnedy absence
However what I want is a sweeper and a system and anyone struggled then they have to act fast on the line

One thing that may save cork and it's only hope I see is players know jbm suffered huge defeat he could walk away as was going to last year after tipp and even in 99. After challenge match humiliation to tipp so players totally respect and admire him it may drive them on as imo I'f cork are hammered jbm could end he's term early as jbm huge credit to him doesn't do ego so he won't think he's better than himself and will be the ist one to question he's own management
I expect cork to get a performance while not a result necessarily

sean mac · 06-06-2015 05:00PM

ger Cunningham a good coach but not a manager at this level.

johnkieran1 · 06-06-2015 05:06PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote:

I'f they can't engage debate or upsets them that much what cork say you would think they stay on their own thread

"Their own thread". Nobody owns any thread here. You of all posters would do well the remember that. This particular thread is where anybody can post on Cork GAA matters. And before you ask, I will not "debate point" because there is no forum rule that says I have to!

Rightwing · 06-06-2015 05:10PM

sean mac wrote: »

ger Cunningham a good coach but not a manager at this level.

I believe it was thinktoomuch I told when appointed that he wasn't up to the job and would be found out early.

thinkstoomuch1 · 06-06-2015 05:27PM

johnkieran1 wrote: »

"Their own thread". Nobody owns any thread here. You of all posters would do well the remember that. This particular thread is where anybody can post on Cork GAA matters. And before you ask, I will not "debate point" because there is no forum rule that says I have to!

I did say to be fair they have every right to post here and not for me to say who can't or can't
My point was simply they come in here and posts which no problem with but they few not all get slants user name nonsense and grammar and also stuff like i needs to grow a pair and I was told what I post was unbearable and my response is no one asked them to post here simply nothing more or less
I suggest you read what I said in the post and when you quote my posts don't post snippets you can take out of context post the whole post please
Your entitled to your opinion and I respect you totally for that

youngbob · 06-06-2015 05:46PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I did say to be fair they have every right to post here and not for me to say who can't or can't
My point was simply they come in here and posts which no problem with but they few not all get slants user name nonsense and grammar and also stuff like i needs to grow a pair and I was told what I post was unbearable and my response is no one asked them to post here simply nothing more or less
I suggest you read what I said in the post
Your entitled to your opinion and I respect you totally for that

You're spot on. I know a few fellas from Youghal and they tell me its unreal when waterford win they all come over the bridge, when they lose they're not seen for weeks. they have been cutting down trees for the bonfires since their last AI(west waterford must be a firetrap by now)

Mountainlad · 06-06-2015 05:55PM

Think you need to read McEvoys article after the league final titled "The time to write off Cork is Never"

thinkstoomuch1 · 06-06-2015 06:08PM

Cork play clare next week in football
Cork played Galway football in challenge last night and full back line and midfield I'm told was usual stuff
We had three challenges match I think since the league final and the same old problems are there
Highly unlikely maguire will feature imo and looks like Alan o Connor set to start probably instead him
Cork juniors have a strong panel by all accounts and I think could rattle an all Ireland again
Team probably be named Thursday night but I think it's reasonable to nearly predict majority who will start however it's not beyond reasonable doubt that a surprise is picked in team selection

Mountainlad · 06-06-2015 06:18PM

youngbob wrote: »

You're spot on. I know a few fellas from Youghal and they tell me its unreal when waterford win they all come over the bridge, when they lose they're not seen for weeks. they have been cutting down trees for the bonfires since their last AI(west waterford must be a firetrap by now)

I know a few fellas from Ardmore who'll tell you the same about the lads from Youghal.

Yobs everywhere buddy. Think everyone calling out TTM is fair game now.

thinkstoomuch1 · 06-06-2015 06:30PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

I know a few fellas from Ardmore who'll tell you the same about the lads from Youghal.

Yobs everywhere buddy. Think everyone calling out TTM is fair game now.

Your entitled to your opinion I respect it but disagree
You still think munster championship is great??? and huge relevance to the all Ireland

Mountainlad · 06-06-2015 06:41PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Your entitled to your opinion I respect it but disagree
You still think munster championship is great??? and huge relevance to the all Ireland

We've already spoken about it and now I don't but I don't buy this better off losing it business either. If you win, you've to win two games. If you lose, you've to win 3. I think there's extenuating circumstances surrounding most of the defeats in the last ten years. Each case on its merits, not some lazy statistic. 10 years is a minute sample size.

That's all I'm saying, Ive said it before now don't tell me I'm not answering you.

youngbob · 06-06-2015 06:56PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Your entitled to your opinion I respect it but disagree
You still think munster championship is great??? and huge relevance to the all Ireland

I think Munster is still a great one to win but in recent years it seems like a poison chalice. I also think the league is a good one to win. As I mentioned before there are 4 big trophies in hurling Kk won 3 of them last year & Cork won the other. this year Waterford have won the 1st one albeit it is the least important of the 4. The provincials are important but everyone knows the big one is in Sept.

youngbob · 06-06-2015 06:56PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Your entitled to your opinion I respect it but disagree
You still think munster championship is great??? and huge relevance to the all Ireland

I think Munster is still a great one to win but in recent years it seems like a poison chalice. I also think the league is a good one to win. As I mentioned before there are 4 big trophies in hurling Kk won 3 of them last year & Cork won the other. this year Waterford have won the 1st one albeit it is the least important of the 4. The provincials are important but everyone knows the big one is in Sept.

N20 · 06-06-2015 07:06PM

Embarrassing defeat for Ger Cunnigham today unfortunately

Having said that pleased to see Galway raise their game and perform

I hope they can build on it - too often a one match wonder

The AI championship needs the Galway of old back competing with the super powers of hurling

Dublin shockingly poor but some great individual performances for Galway

Rightwing · 06-06-2015 07:07PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

We've already spoken about it and now I don't but I don't buy this better off losing it business either. If you win, you've to win two games. If you lose, you've to win 3. I think there's extenuating circumstances surrounding most of the defeats in the last ten years. Each case on its merits, not some lazy statistic. 10 years is a minute sample size.

That's all I'm saying, Ive said it before now don't tell me I'm not answering you.

Spot on. Only a fool would write off the Munster final as a nothing win. Any of the 5 counties can win it on any given day, but overall I feel Tipp are best placed this year to win Munster and go on and win the AI

Hurleratheart · 06-06-2015 07:24PM

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Other thing to remember is when cork recently got to all Ireland final and pushed clare as far as they could he was not holding back to call cork average enough before the dust settled on the games and while he's merit in he's points fact remains he is ruthless once it's cork or tipp imo so McEvoy normally doesn't favour cork on past records and I dont expect such in the future either

He used man sending off v Dublin as turning point game when it wasn't and failed mentioned horgan sending off v limerick
When waterford do loose and it won't be tommorrow I hope he's as ruthless assessment to them as he can be to tipp and cork

I always get a sense some kk pundits ruthless to teams beat them like cork beat KK so probably didn't go down well with them
Tippeary imo six years ago were seen major threat kk so he was well able on one defeat to really be sevre tipp and was putting pressure on them that huge huge problems
Tipperary won the all Ireland with sheedy

I have a view like we see with kerry some pundit talk cork up are doing it as they don't truly fear cork in battle in football
Waterford being talked up fair enough but I would find it hard to believe if kk played waterford mcceovy would fear waterford

Brennan is imo exception with Cinnede who I think normally call it as it is and are brilliant pundits

To be fair to him he was ruthless and correctly say waterford team years back was like orchestra with no bass section in he's words in the article today

They were a very very very good teams no body can ever take that away with few great player but never be remembered as great great team as that's privledge rightly so reserved for champions and Waterford on their records fine comfort zones munster but never hit those heights in croke park bar once with Davy but the great teams perform in croke park

Your disrespecting a fine GAA journalist, Come on now be fair
He's KK of course and has a gra for his own but calls it as he sees it and I've always enjoyed his writing
Silly to try to chip away at him just cos he has different view to you
Mountainlad is right

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/the-time-to-write-off-cork-is-never-329601.html

Painful reading for cork supporters but it's his job to call it as he seesit

thinkstoomuch1 · 06-06-2015 07:24PM

Mountainlad wrote: »

We've already spoken about it and now I don't but I don't buy this better off losing it business either. If you win, you've to win two games. If you lose, you've to win 3. I think there's extenuating circumstances surrounding most of the defeats in the last ten years. Each case on its merits, not some lazy statistic. 10 years is a minute sample size.

That's all I'm saying, Ive said it before now don't tell me I'm not answering you.

No you never answered it before that's why I kept asking with respect

Ten years is the guide line simply as before then munster performance all Ireland was good
It's not lazy statics but one you try dismiss it as as you know two well waterford have great chance munster than all Ireland so you will try blow up munster

Let's go through each case so
Your one fast enough to say others are fair game call me out trying get imo posters go against me when this gaa thread not case against think too much which unfortunately it has become for a minority of waterford fan's and just cause I have view against waterford
I'm huge fan your and still am but hugely dissapointing your sudden change just cause I disagree with you on waterford when only six week ago and I'll repost it you want you acknowledged I got unfair critsom here from many just cause I have different views now you are the same view

Suddenly cause the dynamic changed and I have different opinions regards Waterford you imo change
I'm still huge fan your posts but I totally accept were on different sides regards cork and Waterford and we won't agree and that's fair enough

In relation to munster the logic is its as bob said a poisoned chalice
I actually don't think if limerick win v tipp they want munster win greatly be honest, yes no one wants to loose but the focus and training won't imo be at full pace for it
Munster is useless if you don't even make the all Ireland final and yes it's sad to see munster become that but it has unfortunately
In o7 waterford won munster destroyed all Ireland semi to the under dog limerick who they beat in munster
Tippeary won munster the year after losing to waterford all Ireland semi final
2010 waterford won munster but lost to kk
2012 tipp won munster but lost to kk semi final
2013 limerick won munster lost to clare semi final
Cork win munster last year and lost to tipperary all Ireland semi final

It's not a lazy one off accident but a trend
New Zealand rugby motto is once is an accident and more than once is a trend so six times surely over half way and shows its a trend that munster winning it has no relevance even without kk factor dominated championship to the all Ireland series

Whatever the factors on each defeat fair enough you may have a point fact is teams in munster some times win it are peaking over others that are not so there spent force all Ireland and momentum all Ireland quarter final is huge going to all Ireland semi final

Now yes problems is loose munster you could play KK in all Ireland semi however that's best time play them as kk always find extra in all Ireland finals and the semi final is the place you may beat them as it's very unlikely you beat them in a final as cody loosing finals is like oil and water their immiscible in they don't mix so all Ireland semi final id rather play KK in in kk under the great cody won't loose too many all Ireland finals imo

And by the way like I done in the league final and done all other threads which few here do if waterford which they imo will I'll be the first to congratulate ye on yere win
I won't dress it up more than what it is but like afyee playing a match and shaking hands as there's a respect after the match I'll show waterford that and if cork do unlikely it be interesting to see how many waterford lads do the same here with respect

thinkstoomuch1 · 06-06-2015 07:28PM

Hurleratheart wrote: »

Your disrespecting a fine GAA journalist
He's KK of course and has a gra for his own but calls it as he sees it and I've always enjoyed his writing
Silly to try to chip away at him just cos he has different view to you
Mountainlad is right

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/the-time-to-write-off-cork-is-never-329601.html

Painful reading for cork supporters but it's his job to call it as he seesit

I'm a huge fan him and haven't I said I rated him plenty times
I'm showing that not all he says is correct
Did you read he's articles on tipperary after being beaten by cork
It's fair to say he was harsh on them saying it was their most painful defeat ever it was not
Nobody can dispute that he doesn't hold back regards cork
He's write great stuff on hurling but he's not great love imo for cork
I didn't disrespect him at all, I said I rated some he's stuff but others and that article about tipp I strongly disagree with

Your well up date with hurling so surely you will agree he doesn't hold back with cork
A lot of what he said is correct but this lark waterford no pressure and go back to process and mcgrath win manager year if wexford if Galway if limerick don't win all Ireland is all if and buts when he correctly at times said tipp cork have to be counted so he it's imo fair to say waterford be judged equally as this is year two of mcgrath, year two

youngbob · 06-06-2015 08:56PM

Just because you respect a journalist doesn't mean you should agree with everything he or she says. If that was the case newspapers would only employ 1 sportswriter. If you read only one writer you get a narrow view of any story. every writer has their own slant on things and he or she will lean to that cause, that doesn't mean they are ALWAYS right

johnkieran1 · 06-06-2015 09:11PM

youngbob wrote:

You're spot on. I know a few fellas from Youghal and they tell me its unreal when waterford win they all come over the bridge, when they lose they're not seen for weeks. they have been cutting down trees for the bonfires since their last AI(west waterford must be a firetrap by now)

Ah sure that's just a silly comment. I know of few fellas from xxxxxx who tell me..........................

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