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If Tesla/Elon Musk used Ireland as a hub to showcase what's possible...

2

Comments

  • #32
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,462 ✭✭✭blinding


    You would think that somebody (possibly politicians ) would be pushing for all electric cars in big cities like London for example.

    There is very low pollution from them and they are quiet (maybe too quiet for safety ; This can be easily rectified)

    On air pollution and noise pollution they have a great opportunity.

    I would say that they can up their performance level (20/30%) with quicker easier charging then they will be hard to stop.

    Unless some alternative can compete on the pollution.


  • #33
    DoYouEvenLift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    Heroditas wrote: »
    Certainly the Model S is a super car. A mate of mine owns one of them and a Porsche in Palo Alto and reckons the Model S is just as good performance-wise.
    The Tesla is a niche car though and once the likes of BMW, Audi focus on EVs in a major way, they'll beat Tesla out the gate. They've been building cars a lot longer than Musk has.

    Regarding his batteries, nothing particularly new there that hasn't been done before.

    Tesla/Musk is one big PR/brand machine. A very slick machine, I'll give it that.
    Some nice products but the fanboy clamouring over him in the US is really cringy.


    That's what we should hope. I consider Tesla to be doing with electric cars what Google has done with Google fibre in parts of America. They're showcasing what is possible and where we could be if companies really wanted to make the effort and engineer products to the best of their ability. The only other thing that can have this sort of effect on technological advancement is war.

    Like I said, Tesla are a reference point. I'd say Elon Musk cares more about Space X and what's going on there (who wouldn't? I can't imagine how incredible going into work there everyday would be, literally surrounded by rockets lol) and Tesla is 'just' another project he wants to see how far he can take it. The company would already be long gone if it wasn't for him personally funding it.


    The batteries aren't new, yes, but the ideas and the scale they've proposed to go along with them are. When you realise how viable solar panels are becoming for usable energy because of how much they're improving it's kind of hard to not be impressed and excited about the possibilities that we otherwise wouldn't be close to achieving if the normal corporations had their way. This stuff would be a big advancement for us so I'd forgive any 'fanboys' for these long before ones of companies like Apple or celebrities.


  • #34
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,354 ✭✭✭✭Heroditas


    DoYouEvenLift wrote: »
    Like I said, Tesla are a reference point.

    Completely agree!
    DoYouEvenLift wrote: »
    This stuff would be a big advancement for us so I'd forgive any 'fanboys' for these long before ones of companies like Apple or celebrities.
    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    The term "fanboy" needs abandoning. It never adds anything to any debate, and is a form of well poisoning. Any defences of musk is now "fan boyish."


    Regarding the "fanboy" comment, I wouldn't use it to describe any of the commentariat who are capable of rational and lucid analysis of either Musk or his company. I would only use it to describe those who rabidly defend everything he does with little or no valid points to make.

    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    If the larger car companies do take over this space they will no doubt have learned/copied ideas from Tesla or buy it, or been prodded into the space by his actions sooner than they would have been. All good.

    What will prod those companies is when their customer base demands it!
    Currently he is selling a niche product in quite a unique area of the USA that would be seen as progressive. When rednecks in Alabama are calling for an EV, the companies will respond.


  • #35
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    Heroditas wrote: »
    What will prod those companies is when their customer base demands it!
    Currently he is selling a niche product in quite a unique area of the USA that would be seen as progressive. When rednecks in Alabama are calling for an EV, the companies will respond.

    its not just the US, the Model S sells very well in countries like Norway

    there are plenty of people who will never want an EV and thats fine there will always be petrol/diesel cars for them, but 10 years from now all the smart people will be driving electric, EVs are better in almost every way


  • #36
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,354 ✭✭✭✭Heroditas


    nokia69 wrote: »
    its not just the US, the Model S sells very well in countries like Norway

    there are plenty of people who will never want an EV and thats fine there will always be petrol/diesel cars for them, but 10 years from now all the smart people will be driving electric, EVs are better in almost every way


    Norway is quite your atypical nation though.

    Also, don't assume everyone is smart. Quite the opposite in fact. Even if all the smart people are driving EVs, that's only a small % of the total "herd"


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  • #37
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    nokia69 wrote: »
    its not just the US, the Model S sells very well in countries like Norway

    there are plenty of people who will never want an EV and thats fine there will always be petrol/diesel cars for them, but 10 years from now all the smart people will be driving electric, EVs are better in almost every way

    Worse surely.


  • #38
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    kneemos wrote: »
    Worse surely.

    lower fuel costs

    lower maintenance costs

    better acceleration

    less noise

    no vibration

    the electric motor is one of the most perfect inventions ever


  • #39
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    nokia69 wrote: »
    lower fuel costs

    lower maintenance costs

    better acceleration

    less noise

    no vibration

    the electric motor is one of the most perfect inventions ever

    Much higher purchase price.
    Can't use the power.
    less noise is a disadvantage.
    Cars don't vibrate.


  • #40
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,354 ✭✭✭✭Heroditas


    kneemos wrote: »
    Much higher purchase price.
    Can't use the power.
    less noise is a disadvantage.
    Cars don't vibrate.

    Purchase prices drop with volume
    Can't use the power? Elaborate
    Less noise being a disadvantage is a bizarre comment. Why do the likes of BMW try to make their car quieter in that case as a selling point?
    Engines vibrate, leading to cars vibrating


  • #41
    leonards
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 256 ✭✭leonards


    Heroditas wrote: »
    Norway is quite your atypical nation though.

    Also, don't assume everyone is smart. Quite the opposite in fact. Even if all the smart people are driving EVs, that's only a small % of the total "herd"

    There is a freakanomics podcast explaining that Norway government is giving massive tax breaks on Telsa cars.... Interesting listen...


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  • #42
    DoYouEvenLift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    nokia69 wrote: »
    lower fuel costs

    lower maintenance costs

    better acceleration

    less noise

    no vibration

    the electric motor is one of the most perfect inventions ever


    If they managed to reduce wind noise at speeds and the motor to both be almost silent and the car was self driving it would be absolute bliss travelling in cars like these on motorways. Even more so if they included windows that can black out light so you could just rest and sleep so easily during long journeys. I'd be going all over the country just for an excuse to enjoy the car.

    It's also hilarious thinking that it'll be possible to play video games, as in not on your phone or tablet but have an actual console hooked up if you want, or watch movies on decently sized screens during journeys in the future. Just sit into the car, input where you're going and then pass the time doing whatever you want while the car does all the driving and then just arrive at the destination.

    These were once all science fiction but have now become very possible. The rate of adoption to technology will only improve as children nowadays who are surrounded with and adjusted to technology grow older and continue to stay up to date with new releases.


  • #43
    Eugene Norman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,191 ✭✭✭Eugene Norman


    The strange hostility to electric cars tells us something about the modern world doesn't it? It's basically new technology. When the U.S. started dominating the world Edison and Telsa and later the pioneer aviators would be guaranteed huge crowds when they toured. Including in Hicksville. Now it's just "progressive America". Even though this could reduce the dependency on OPEC oil it's still a commie plot.


  • #44
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    leonards wrote: »
    There is a freakanomics podcast explaining that Norway government is giving massive tax breaks on Telsa cars.... Interesting listen...

    yeah I heard it

    AFAIK the tax breaks come to an end soon, or will be changed

    but Norway is the perfect country for EVs, their grid is almost 100% hydroelectric and the more EVs they drive the more oil they can export


  • #45
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    kneemos wrote: »
    Much higher purchase price.
    Can't use the power.
    less noise is a disadvantage.
    Cars don't vibrate.
    Noise is wasted energy, and don't try say it makes them safer because pedestrians can hear them coming.

    I'm not fully sold on whether these gestures by Tesla are entirely altruistic. Fossil fuel powered vehicles will most probably be replaced long-term by one of two technologies.

    1) Rechargeable solid batteries
    2) Hydrogen fuel cells

    Tesla are positioning themselves (and pushing the market) towards the first option.


  • #46
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Heroditas wrote: »
    Purchase prices drop with volume
    Can't use the power? Elaborate
    Less noise being a disadvantage is a bizarre comment. Why do the likes of BMW try to make their car quieter in that case as a selling point?
    Engines vibrate, leading to cars vibrating

    Never felt a vibration in a car.
    What happens in the future is in the future,right now they're frighteningly expensive.
    Too quite,can't be heard,dangerous.


  • #47
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Noise is wasted energy, and don't try say it makes them safer because pedestrians can hear them coming.

    I'm not fully sold on whether these gestures by Tesla are entirely altruistic. Fossil fuel powered vehicles will most probably be replaced long-term by one of two technologies.

    1) Rechargeable solid batteries
    2) Hydrogen fuel cells

    Tesla are positioning themselves (and pushing the market) towards the first option.

    you will never see cars powered by Hydrogen fool cells in large numbers, it just can't work

    it may be a different type of battery but it will be electric


  • #48
    DoYouEvenLift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    Eugene Norman wrote: »
    The strange hostility to electric cars tells us something about the modern world doesn't it? It's basically new technology. When the U.S. started dominating the world Edison and Telsa and later the pioneer aviators would be guaranteed huge crowds when they toured. Including in Hicksville. Now it's just "progressive America". Even though this could reduce the dependency on OPEC oil it's still a commie plot.


    Yeah, I don't really understand the reluctance and even aggression from some towards trying out new stuff when things like this can make one's life easier and provide a cleaner future for later generations. It can't even be considered altruism to just be conscious about what kind of environment we'll be introducing our children and grandchildren into, just common decency. Humanity has always strived to improve it's standard of living for it's offspring so why would our generation be any different and slow the process.


  • #49
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,354 ✭✭✭✭Heroditas


    kneemos wrote: »
    Never felt a vibration in a car.
    What happens in the future is in the future,right now they're frighteningly expensive.
    Too quite,can't be heard,dangerous.


    Plenty of vibration in a lot of cheaper-end petrol and diesel cars when compared to EVs.

    No need for you to drive one now if you can't afford it. A brand new Porsche or Ferrari is frighteningly expensive as well.

    Too "quiet"? Well I usually have a look as well as a listen before I determine if a road is safe.


  • #50
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    nokia69 wrote: »
    you will never see cars powered by Hydrogen fool cells in large numbers, it just can't work

    it may be a different type of battery but it will be electric
    Why "can't" it work? Seems rather short sighted.

    Yep both are electric, but the batteries in Tesla cars are basically a load of laptop batteries - quite a large amount of wasted energy transporting that weight everywhere.


  • #51
    Sabre Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Sabre Man


    nokia69 wrote: »
    yeah I heard it

    AFAIK the tax breaks come to an end soon, or will be changed

    but Norway is the perfect country for EVs, their grid is almost 100% hydroelectric and the more EVs they drive the more oil they can export

    Tax breaks for EVs are set to continue in Norway but local councils can decide if they want to ban EVs from bus lanes. They also currently enjoy free parking, ferries and tolls.


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  • #52
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Why "can't" it work? Seems rather short sighted.

    Yep both are electric, but the batteries in Tesla cars are basically a load of laptop batteries - quite a large wasted energy transporting that weight everywhere.

    http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-hydrogen-hoax

    have a read of that and you will see why Hydrogen just can't work, its not short sighted, the basic physics just don't work


    don't worry about the batteries they are getting better and lighter every year


  • #53
    Stone Deaf 4evr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,000 ✭✭✭Stone Deaf 4evr


    Forget all this energy nonsense, when's he going to make an iron man suit?


  • #54
    DoYouEvenLift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Noise is wasted energy, and don't try say it makes them safer because pedestrians can hear them coming.

    I'm not fully sold on whether these gestures by Tesla are entirely altruistic. Fossil fuel powered vehicles will most probably be replaced long-term by one of two technologies.

    1) Rechargeable solid batteries
    2) Hydrogen fuel cells

    Tesla are positioning themselves (and pushing the market) towards the first option.


    But there's nothing stopping any other company from doing the same thing with Hydrogen powered cars that Tesla have done with electric. All they'd have to do is develop the technology and prove it's reliability and safety and from there it would then be a competition between the two technologies. This would actually be even better than electric being the only option being used and pushed since we'd really find out which is the best option of the two and then we, the consumer, would benefit from the competition.


    It's just like the television market and how there are different display technologies but they all do the same thing...although that may be a bad comparison since plasma, the best display technology, was phased out by LCD which is inferior lol. But then again OLED is on the way and that's the epitome of display technology anyway so oh well.


  • #55
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »
    Forget all this energy nonsense, when's he going to make an iron man suit?

    when the BFR is finished


  • #56
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Heroditas wrote: »
    Plenty of vibration in a lot of cheaper-end petrol and diesel cars when compared to EVs.

    No need for you to drive one now if you can't afford it. A brand new Porsche or Ferrari is frighteningly expensive as well.

    Too "quiet"? Well I usually have a look as well as a listen before I determine if a road is safe.

    Why the reluctance to recognise the obvious drawbacks of electric cars?
    I think they're a good idea as well but just don't work very well at the moment.


  • #57
    Heroditas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,354 ✭✭✭✭Heroditas


    kneemos wrote: »
    Why the reluctance to recognise the obvious drawbacks of electric cars?
    I think they're a good idea as well but just don't work very well at the moment.


    I haven't exhibited any reluctance. I just think your "obvious" drawbacks are spurious.
    If you'd said that the range isn't currently as good as ICE cars, then I would have agreed, or even if you'd said that the cost to install fast-charge points is extremely high, then perhaps I'd have also agreed, yet you said that they aren't noisy enough. I mean, c'mon...


  • #58
    DoYouEvenLift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    kneemos wrote: »
    Never felt a vibration in a car.
    What happens in the future is in the future,right now they're frighteningly expensive.
    Too quite,can't be heard,dangerous.


    'Too expensive' is only a con to you for now! What happens in the future, with regards to consumer goods, can only happen if there are early adopters who look past the con of the new technologies being too expensive and provide the market feedback that the products are actually wanted.


    Some of the first mobile phones, the big ass bricks that we now laugh at, originally cost >$7,000 when they came to market. It was mostly people on Wall Street that spent that money on them but had it not been for them paying for those and proving there is a demand and worthwhile use for them who knows if our phones nowadays would be as close to being what they are. This is the same in every industry. What is a con now will eventually change as adoption rates increase and they become cheaper to produce.


  • #59
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭nokia69


    kneemos wrote: »
    Why the reluctance to recognise the obvious drawbacks of electric cars?
    I think they're a good idea as well but just don't work very well at the moment.

    but they do work very well

    the model S is a great car, the drawback is its too expensive for the average man

    the Nissan leaf is a good car, but the range needs to be better

    so what we need is a cheap EV with good range, which is what both Tesla and Nissan are working on, we know that tesla will have the Model 3 with 200 mile range on sale for $35K in 2017

    2 or 3 years is not a long time, I can wait :D


  • #60
    kneemos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,606 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    Heroditas wrote: »
    I haven't exhibited any reluctance. I just think your "obvious" drawbacks are spurious.
    If you'd said that the range isn't currently as good as ICE cars, then I would have agreed, or even if you'd said that the cost to install fast-charge points is extremely high, then perhaps I'd have also agreed, yet you said that they aren't noisy enough. I mean, c'mon...

    That's been a stated disadvantage from the start that I've heard many times,even here on this thread.
    Haven't mentioned the impact of mining to manufacture batteries or the cost of replacing them.
    Your battery range in the real world,carrying a few mates on a cold wet night for example.
    Electricity has an environmental impact as well.
    Can't see an electric car competing with a small or medium diesel as regards net cost.
    Nobody has mentioned resale value,I'm guessing not good.
    The only positive I can see is the improvement in air quality in cities.


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  • #61
    DoYouEvenLift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    Jimoslimos wrote: »
    Why "can't" it work? Seems rather short sighted.

    Yep both are electric, but the batteries in Tesla cars are basically a load of laptop batteries - quite a large amount of wasted energy transporting that weight everywhere.


    Well the weight of the batteries is actually a large part of the genius engineering behind the Model S. The batteries are spread out throughout the entire length of the car which gives it it's lower center of gravity that delivers the cars excellent handling. Every review I've watched and read has expressed just how amazing the car feels to drive, especially in corners.


    Batteries also aren't immune to advancement. There are people trying to invent batteries for phones and tablets that basically don't need to be charged for years without running out. It's quite possible that, if developed, this tech would be adjusted to suit more things like cars so the mileage one can get from a single full charge could possibly be in the thousands of miles.


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