If Tesla/Elon Musk used Ireland as a hub to showcase what's possible...

DoYouEvenLift

I've known about these guys for a few years since some of their innovative technology is always praised, especially their electric cars, but lately I've gotten very interested in their work and ideas of where they'd like certain industries to go, especially energy with their strong emphasis on upgrading to renewable energy sources.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UziAXis9yg

Elon Musk himself has expressed plans to provide free charge stations throughout USA for customers of Tesla motors and this made me think how long and expensive this would be to complete since USA is massive. Since Ireland is small enough to fit within pretty much every state, it would be so much easier and cheaper to use this country as a hub to showcase this technology and any other technology they could bring to market here. Just imagine what this could do for Ireland. It would make our country a perfect example and the reference point of what is possible and with the internet would have people all over the world demanding the standard we have and possibly result in other countries also adopting to these technologies a lot sooner than they otherwise would have.


If they setup their power grid and charge stations here I'd be one of the first to sign up to buy one of their electric cars because they're amazing and it would make mean no more paying for fuel. Similar goes for Google. They've already got a HQ here and we've provided them with massive savings on tax so it'd be nice if we got some bit of a pat on the back for that in the form of helping us get ahead in something like broadband infrastructure... Google fibre Gigabit internet in every home in Ireland pls hehe ty

Jesus Wept

send him an email

DoYouEvenLift

The Rodgers wrote: »

send him an email

Think I'll send him a snail mail and pose as an eight year old by writing in multiple different crayon colours for extra authenticity. Who'd refuse an 8 year olds wishes!

kneemos

Nobody could afford those things here.
Don't get the idea of the free charge points,unless it's free for Tesla cars and charge everybody else.

DoYouEvenLift

kneemos wrote: »

Nobody could afford those things here.
Don't get the idea of the free charge points,unless it's free for Tesla cars and charge everybody else.

Lots of people could afford them here, yes the majority couldn't but even they could possibly get loans to finance them. Once you've got the car you no longer have any fuel costs - all you'd have to pay for is the usual tax/insurance/maintenance.

The charge points would be free for Tesla customers AFAIK. Their power grid could also connect to customers homes so everyone who adopts supports each other and the use of renewable energy grows. But even with just their battery packs one could charge the batteries when electricity is at it's cheapest and then use the batteries to power one's home during peak hours which would save on costs of energy bills.


Costa Rica runs entirely off of renewable energy now but they can't really be used as a serious reference point since they don't use a lot of energy anyway but, although we are small, Ireland doing similar would be an absolutely huge accomplishment and we'd be looked at as a country that's really doing things right.


For USA they've shown this as an idea of how efficient their solar technology is at the moment and as time goes on solar technology is becoming more and more efficient.

http://rayhightower.com/images/tesla_blue_square_energy.png

kneemos

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Lots of people could afford them here, yes the majority couldn't but even they could possibly get loans to finance them. Once you've got the car you no longer have any fuel costs - all you'd have to pay for is the usual tax/insurance/maintenance.

The charge points would be free for Tesla customers AFAIK. Their power grid could also connect to customers homes so everyone who adopts supports each other and the use of renewable energy grows. But even with just their battery packs one could charge the batteries when electricity is at it's cheapest and then use the batteries to power one's home during peak hours which would save on costs of energy bills.


Costa Rica runs entirely off of renewable energy now but they can't really be used as a serious reference point since they don't use a lot of energy anyway but, although we are small, Ireland doing similar would be an absolutely huge accomplishment and we'd be looked at as a country that's really doing things right.


For USA they've shown this as an idea of how efficient their solar technology is at the moment and as time goes on solar technology is becoming more and more efficient.

http://rayhightower.com/images/tesla_blue_square_energy.png

They'd be well over a hundred grand here . Definitely a niche market.

Electric cars in general aren't really economical unless you do high mileage to recover the extra cost.

DoYouEvenLift

kneemos wrote: »

They'd be well over a hundred grand here . Definitely a niche market.

Electric cars in general aren't really economical unless you do high mileage to recover the extra cost.

That's true. There'll be much cheaper and smaller, more regular electric cars over the next few years/decade anyway since they are the future, especially with the hopes of automatic cars/vehicles becoming available.

Autonomous Cowherd

A public transport system running on such a grid as Musk proposes might be a good show case globally for him. And the cost would probably not be as prohibitive, as once you have the basic machine, increase in size to mini bus level could not be so prohibitive (?) Anyways, I love that there are people out there enthusiastically pushing for new technologies and ideas, unsticking us gradually from the greasy paws of the petrochemical monopoly.

Heroditas

ESB have been offering free charge points for people buying electric cars for a while now and the take-up has been pretty poor.

Also, Google have a tie-in with Electric Ireland via offering the Nest product to EI customers so there's already quite a bit going on in the energy sector with some of these multinationals.

Cienciano

OP, is it a full church wedding or just a registry do for you and Elon?

Grayson

I don't know if he's coming back to Ireland. Last time he was here he was in Coppers.

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/billionaire-musk-samples-some-irish-hospitality-in-coppers-29740929.html

Sabre Man

Tesla should be opening stores and four superchargers in Ireland sometime next year. They have already sold a handful of Model S cars here, so clearly there is some demand.

For Forks Sake

Sabre Man wrote: »

Tesla should be opening stores and four superchargers in Ireland sometime next year. They have already sold a handful of Model S cars here, so clearly there is some demand.

2 registered in the last two years: http://www.beepbeep.ie/stats/?sYear%5B%5D=2015&sYear%5B%5D=2014&sRegType=1&sMonth%5B%5D=&sMonth%5B%5D=&sMake%5B%5D=Tesla&sRange%5B%5D=MODEL%2BS&x=49&y=14

Oafley Jones

Cienciano wrote: »

OP, is it a full church wedding or just a registry do for you and Elon?

Harsh. Tesla do seem to attract the most insufferable of fanbois (not directed at the OP). They make the Apple cheerleader lot seem almost reasonable. That said, I'm a fan of the product. If I lived in a country with a massive tax incentive or appropriately sized roads (most people don't realise how large the Model S is) I'd buy one as a second car.

Musk is a great showman and a really smart guy. And you have to admire what he's done. Thing is, i'm not entirely sure that he's not going to be the JJ Abrams of tech. He'll have a great idea, with a hook that'll captivate many and then it'll just all fall apart. Tesla is also an atrocity of a company to work for. I've friends in Cupertino (Apple) and Sunnyvale (Google) who'd have regular contact with staff there and the main complaint is that it's a large company that's run like a start-up. That's not a good thing. There's tons of infighting, no real management structure, poor work practises and awful HR. Staff fall into one or two categories; The believers and the disillusioned. I personally have questions over the scale and if they'll ever come close to peoples expectations.

DoYouEvenLift

Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »

A public transport system running on such a grid as Musk proposes might be a good show case globally for him. And the cost would probably not be as prohibitive, as once you have the basic machine, increase in size to mini bus level could not be so prohibitive (?) Anyways, I love that there are people out there enthusiastically pushing for new technologies and ideas, unsticking us gradually from the greasy paws of the petrochemical monopoly.

That's the most important thing. We really need emphasis put on adopting to new tech and methods to support companies like this. Traditional motor cars are going to feel like disgusting, dirt covered fossils once there's a large amount of these clean vehicles driving around. There have been many good pushes towards electric cars in the past but the tech got buried. But with the internet, that isn't possible anymore. We've been exposed to what's possible and it looks great so even if Tesla failed there are already other companies making efforts to make these cars available. All this happening alongside car automation = what a time to be alive!

Adamantium

When his astronauts return to Earth, he can use Leitrim as his capsule landing site.

They'll think they'll have returned to The Planet of the Apes.
World's first astronaut reality TV show.

Steodonn

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

That's true. There'll be much cheaper and smaller, more regular electric cars over the next few years/decade anyway since they are the future, especially with the hopes of automatic cars/vehicles becoming available.

The internal combustion engine is still getting more efficient and attracts more far more investment than electric cars. A " cleaner " version is probably the future of motor industry loads of next-gen designs floating around at the moment ( stuff like this http://www.ecomotors.com/ )

nokia69

kneemos wrote: »

Nobody could afford those things here.
Don't get the idea of the free charge points,unless it's free for Tesla cars and charge everybody else.

the model 3 goes on sale in 2017 in the US for about $35K

the superchargers are not really free, you pay for them when you buy the car

nokia69

Steodonn wrote: »

The internal combustion engine is still getting more efficient and attracts more far more investment than electric cars. A " cleaner " version is probably the future of motor industry loads of next-gen designs floating around at the moment ( stuff like this http://www.ecomotors.com/ )

there is a limit to how efficient an ICE can be, it will never come close to an electric car

DoYouEvenLift

Steodonn wrote: »

The internal combustion engine is still getting more efficient and attracts more far more investment than electric cars. A " cleaner " version is probably the future of motor industry loads of next-gen designs floating around at the moment ( stuff like this http://www.ecomotors.com/ )

Maybe but I think ultimately electric will win. It's all up to how the consumer votes with their money of course but I don't see why anyone would choose to continue the usual method of going to a fuel station to fill up with whatever fuel when it'll be possible to just park the car at home over a charge point installed in the garage or drive, won't even have to physically connect any wires, and next time you're going somewhere have it be charged to go.

I know stopping at a fuel station isn't exactly a big task, first world problems here, but having the car charge automatically at home overnight = an extra ten minutes at home/in bed.

Plus why continue paying for fuels, no matter how clean, when we could establish an infrastructure that allows us all to have essentially free energy. The costs may not be earned back by us anytime soon, but future generations would really benefit from it.

Heroditas

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

The costs may not be earned back by us anytime soon, but future generations would really benefit from it.

Altruism doesn't extend to the vast majority of humanity though, hence why people are reluctant to invest so much into something from which they might not get the full benefit of.

nokia69

the Model S, best car in the world IMO

DoYouEvenLift

nokia69 wrote: »

the Model S, best car in the world IMO

And to think it's basically just a starting point. Look at everything we buy, they always improve over time. The first mobile phones are absolute disasters compared to what mobile phones have become today, the same goes for televisions, computers, cameras etc. These things can only improve and go up from here and Tesla's cars will be no different with all the effort they put into them.


The guy in the video's gas as well lol.

nokia69

yeah thats the P85, the P85D is even better and I think we will see a P100D soon, maybe after the Model X goes on sale later in the year

Heroditas

Certainly the Model S is a super car. A mate of mine owns one of them and a Porsche in Palo Alto and reckons the Model S is just as good performance-wise.
The Tesla is a niche car though and once the likes of BMW, Audi focus on EVs in a major way, they'll beat Tesla out the gate. They've been building cars a lot longer than Musk has.

Regarding his batteries, nothing particularly new there that hasn't been done before.

Tesla/Musk is one big PR/brand machine. A very slick machine, I'll give it that.
Some nice products but the fanboy clamouring over him in the US is really cringy.

nokia69

Heroditas wrote: »

Certainly the Model S is a super car. A mate of mine owns one of them and a Porsche in Palo Alto and reckons the Model S is just as good performance-wise.
The Tesla is a niche car though and once the likes of BMW, Audi focus on EVs in a major way, they'll beat Tesla out the gate. They've been building cars a lot longer than Musk has.

they are a few years behind IMO, but Musk wants them to build electric cars, he keeps telling them they need to move faster, if they want to beat Tesla at this point they will need to build a battery gigafactory on the same scale as Tesla

Heroditas wrote: »

Regarding his batteries, nothing particularly new there that hasn't been done before.

true its not really new, its just bigger and therefore better, but Tesla were the first to build a really great electric car

Heroditas wrote: »

Tesla/Musk is one big PR/brand machine. A very slick machine, I'll give it that.
Some nice products but the fanboy clamouring over him in the US is really cringy.

its more than PR, its not possible to sell that many cars at that price with PR alone, and Tesla don't even advertise

some people really hate him, there is constant stream of anti Musk articles in the right wing press, he is pissing off a lot of people

Eugene Norman

Heroditas wrote: »

Altruism doesn't extend to the vast majority of humanity though, hence why people are reluctant to invest so much into something from which they might not get the full benefit of.

Which is why a lot of Elon Musks companies rely on subsidies. A much better use of government than banking bailouts though.

I can't see him coming to Ireland given the size of the U.S. subsidises.

Eugene Norman

Heroditas wrote: »

Certainly the Model S is a super car. A mate of mine owns one of them and a Porsche in Palo Alto and reckons the Model S is just as good performance-wise.
The Tesla is a niche car though and once the likes of BMW, Audi focus on EVs in a major way, they'll beat Tesla out the gate. They've been building cars a lot longer than Musk has.

Regarding his batteries, nothing particularly new there that hasn't been done before.

Tesla/Musk is one big PR/brand machine. A very slick machine, I'll give it that.
Some nice products but the fanboy clamouring over him in the US is really cringy.

The term "fanboy" needs abandoning. It never adds anything to any debate, and is a form of well poisoning. Any defences of musk is now "fan boyish."

I've not followed his career. In fact I just watched his Ted talk 2013 this morning. I'm impressed and modern capitalism general leaves me cold.

If the larger car companies do take over this space they will no doubt have learned/copied ideas from Tesla or buy it, or been prodded into the space by his actions sooner than they would have been. All good.

His re-usable rocket is a great idea and the solar power ideas are quite innovative too (lease the panels and your utility bills are the cost of the lease).

nokia69

Eugene Norman wrote: »

Which is why a lot of Elon Musks companies rely on subsidies. A much better use of government than banking bailouts though.

I can't see him coming to Ireland given the size of the U.S. subsidises.

they don't rely on subsidies, the subsidies are there for any company that makes electric cars

Eugene Norman

nokia69 wrote: »

they don't rely on subsidies, the subsidies are there for any company that makes electric cars

Well if tesla uses them it probably needs them. That isn't a dig. I admire the company.

emo72

if he starts to give away free electricity, i can see him being the victim of an unfortunate "accident".

blinding

You would think that somebody (possibly politicians ) would be pushing for all electric cars in big cities like London for example.

There is very low pollution from them and they are quiet (maybe too quiet for safety ; This can be easily rectified)

On air pollution and noise pollution they have a great opportunity.

I would say that they can up their performance level (20/30%) with quicker easier charging then they will be hard to stop.

Unless some alternative can compete on the pollution.

DoYouEvenLift

Heroditas wrote: »

Certainly the Model S is a super car. A mate of mine owns one of them and a Porsche in Palo Alto and reckons the Model S is just as good performance-wise.
The Tesla is a niche car though and once the likes of BMW, Audi focus on EVs in a major way, they'll beat Tesla out the gate. They've been building cars a lot longer than Musk has.

Regarding his batteries, nothing particularly new there that hasn't been done before.

Tesla/Musk is one big PR/brand machine. A very slick machine, I'll give it that.
Some nice products but the fanboy clamouring over him in the US is really cringy.

That's what we should hope. I consider Tesla to be doing with electric cars what Google has done with Google fibre in parts of America. They're showcasing what is possible and where we could be if companies really wanted to make the effort and engineer products to the best of their ability. The only other thing that can have this sort of effect on technological advancement is war.

Like I said, Tesla are a reference point. I'd say Elon Musk cares more about Space X and what's going on there (who wouldn't? I can't imagine how incredible going into work there everyday would be, literally surrounded by rockets lol) and Tesla is 'just' another project he wants to see how far he can take it. The company would already be long gone if it wasn't for him personally funding it.


The batteries aren't new, yes, but the ideas and the scale they've proposed to go along with them are. When you realise how viable solar panels are becoming for usable energy because of how much they're improving it's kind of hard to not be impressed and excited about the possibilities that we otherwise wouldn't be close to achieving if the normal corporations had their way. This stuff would be a big advancement for us so I'd forgive any 'fanboys' for these long before ones of companies like Apple or celebrities.

Heroditas

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Like I said, Tesla are a reference point.

Completely agree!

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

This stuff would be a big advancement for us so I'd forgive any 'fanboys' for these long before ones of companies like Apple or celebrities.

Eugene Norman wrote: »

The term "fanboy" needs abandoning. It never adds anything to any debate, and is a form of well poisoning. Any defences of musk is now "fan boyish."

Regarding the "fanboy" comment, I wouldn't use it to describe any of the commentariat who are capable of rational and lucid analysis of either Musk or his company. I would only use it to describe those who rabidly defend everything he does with little or no valid points to make.

Eugene Norman wrote: »

If the larger car companies do take over this space they will no doubt have learned/copied ideas from Tesla or buy it, or been prodded into the space by his actions sooner than they would have been. All good.

What will prod those companies is when their customer base demands it!
Currently he is selling a niche product in quite a unique area of the USA that would be seen as progressive. When rednecks in Alabama are calling for an EV, the companies will respond.

nokia69

Heroditas wrote: »

What will prod those companies is when their customer base demands it!
Currently he is selling a niche product in quite a unique area of the USA that would be seen as progressive. When rednecks in Alabama are calling for an EV, the companies will respond.

its not just the US, the Model S sells very well in countries like Norway

there are plenty of people who will never want an EV and thats fine there will always be petrol/diesel cars for them, but 10 years from now all the smart people will be driving electric, EVs are better in almost every way

Heroditas

nokia69 wrote: »

its not just the US, the Model S sells very well in countries like Norway

there are plenty of people who will never want an EV and thats fine there will always be petrol/diesel cars for them, but 10 years from now all the smart people will be driving electric, EVs are better in almost every way

Norway is quite your atypical nation though.

Also, don't assume everyone is smart. Quite the opposite in fact. Even if all the smart people are driving EVs, that's only a small % of the total "herd"

kneemos

nokia69 wrote: »

its not just the US, the Model S sells very well in countries like Norway

there are plenty of people who will never want an EV and thats fine there will always be petrol/diesel cars for them, but 10 years from now all the smart people will be driving electric, EVs are better in almost every way

Worse surely.

nokia69

kneemos wrote: »

Worse surely.

lower fuel costs

lower maintenance costs

better acceleration

less noise

no vibration

the electric motor is one of the most perfect inventions ever

kneemos

nokia69 wrote: »

lower fuel costs

lower maintenance costs

better acceleration

less noise

no vibration

the electric motor is one of the most perfect inventions ever

Much higher purchase price.
Can't use the power.
less noise is a disadvantage.
Cars don't vibrate.

Heroditas

kneemos wrote: »

Much higher purchase price.
Can't use the power.
less noise is a disadvantage.
Cars don't vibrate.

Purchase prices drop with volume
Can't use the power? Elaborate
Less noise being a disadvantage is a bizarre comment. Why do the likes of BMW try to make their car quieter in that case as a selling point?
Engines vibrate, leading to cars vibrating

leonards

Heroditas wrote: »

Norway is quite your atypical nation though.

Also, don't assume everyone is smart. Quite the opposite in fact. Even if all the smart people are driving EVs, that's only a small % of the total "herd"

There is a freakanomics podcast explaining that Norway government is giving massive tax breaks on Telsa cars.... Interesting listen...

DoYouEvenLift

nokia69 wrote: »

lower fuel costs

lower maintenance costs

better acceleration

less noise

no vibration

the electric motor is one of the most perfect inventions ever

If they managed to reduce wind noise at speeds and the motor to both be almost silent and the car was self driving it would be absolute bliss travelling in cars like these on motorways. Even more so if they included windows that can black out light so you could just rest and sleep so easily during long journeys. I'd be going all over the country just for an excuse to enjoy the car.

It's also hilarious thinking that it'll be possible to play video games, as in not on your phone or tablet but have an actual console hooked up if you want, or watch movies on decently sized screens during journeys in the future. Just sit into the car, input where you're going and then pass the time doing whatever you want while the car does all the driving and then just arrive at the destination.

These were once all science fiction but have now become very possible. The rate of adoption to technology will only improve as children nowadays who are surrounded with and adjusted to technology grow older and continue to stay up to date with new releases.

Eugene Norman

The strange hostility to electric cars tells us something about the modern world doesn't it? It's basically new technology. When the U.S. started dominating the world Edison and Telsa and later the pioneer aviators would be guaranteed huge crowds when they toured. Including in Hicksville. Now it's just "progressive America". Even though this could reduce the dependency on OPEC oil it's still a commie plot.

nokia69

leonards wrote: »

There is a freakanomics podcast explaining that Norway government is giving massive tax breaks on Telsa cars.... Interesting listen...

yeah I heard it

AFAIK the tax breaks come to an end soon, or will be changed

but Norway is the perfect country for EVs, their grid is almost 100% hydroelectric and the more EVs they drive the more oil they can export

Jimoslimos

kneemos wrote: »

Much higher purchase price.
Can't use the power.
less noise is a disadvantage.
Cars don't vibrate.

Noise is wasted energy, and don't try say it makes them safer because pedestrians can hear them coming.

I'm not fully sold on whether these gestures by Tesla are entirely altruistic. Fossil fuel powered vehicles will most probably be replaced long-term by one of two technologies.

1) Rechargeable solid batteries
2) Hydrogen fuel cells

Tesla are positioning themselves (and pushing the market) towards the first option.

kneemos

Heroditas wrote: »

Purchase prices drop with volume
Can't use the power? Elaborate
Less noise being a disadvantage is a bizarre comment. Why do the likes of BMW try to make their car quieter in that case as a selling point?
Engines vibrate, leading to cars vibrating

Never felt a vibration in a car.
What happens in the future is in the future,right now they're frighteningly expensive.
Too quite,can't be heard,dangerous.

nokia69

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Noise is wasted energy, and don't try say it makes them safer because pedestrians can hear them coming.

I'm not fully sold on whether these gestures by Tesla are entirely altruistic. Fossil fuel powered vehicles will most probably be replaced long-term by one of two technologies.

1) Rechargeable solid batteries
2) Hydrogen fuel cells

Tesla are positioning themselves (and pushing the market) towards the first option.

you will never see cars powered by Hydrogen fool cells in large numbers, it just can't work

it may be a different type of battery but it will be electric

DoYouEvenLift

Eugene Norman wrote: »

The strange hostility to electric cars tells us something about the modern world doesn't it? It's basically new technology. When the U.S. started dominating the world Edison and Telsa and later the pioneer aviators would be guaranteed huge crowds when they toured. Including in Hicksville. Now it's just "progressive America". Even though this could reduce the dependency on OPEC oil it's still a commie plot.

Yeah, I don't really understand the reluctance and even aggression from some towards trying out new stuff when things like this can make one's life easier and provide a cleaner future for later generations. It can't even be considered altruism to just be conscious about what kind of environment we'll be introducing our children and grandchildren into, just common decency. Humanity has always strived to improve it's standard of living for it's offspring so why would our generation be any different and slow the process.

Heroditas

kneemos wrote: »

Never felt a vibration in a car.
What happens in the future is in the future,right now they're frighteningly expensive.
Too quite,can't be heard,dangerous.

Plenty of vibration in a lot of cheaper-end petrol and diesel cars when compared to EVs.

No need for you to drive one now if you can't afford it. A brand new Porsche or Ferrari is frighteningly expensive as well.

Too "quiet"? Well I usually have a look as well as a listen before I determine if a road is safe.

Jimoslimos

nokia69 wrote: »

you will never see cars powered by Hydrogen fool cells in large numbers, it just can't work

it may be a different type of battery but it will be electric

Why "can't" it work? Seems rather short sighted.

Yep both are electric, but the batteries in Tesla cars are basically a load of laptop batteries - quite a large amount of wasted energy transporting that weight everywhere.

Sabre Man

nokia69 wrote: »

yeah I heard it

AFAIK the tax breaks come to an end soon, or will be changed

but Norway is the perfect country for EVs, their grid is almost 100% hydroelectric and the more EVs they drive the more oil they can export

Tax breaks for EVs are set to continue in Norway but local councils can decide if they want to ban EVs from bus lanes. They also currently enjoy free parking, ferries and tolls.