Ever being cheated on or done the cheating?

the evasion_kid · 31-05-2015 12:09AM

I've witnessed some low down dirty behavior down through the years,what amazes me is the mental gymnastics some people will do to condone their cheating, all to ease their own conscience or to rid themselves of accountability about it,I'd actually be of the opinion that relationships are pointless nowadays.

31-05-2015 12:10AM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

^^ I think that's one of the few things we've clashed on in all the time I've posted on Boards Personally, being the 'other guy' is something I view - morally - as being 'almost' (but not quite) as bad as cheating; I'd put the two very close, morally.

Far be it from me to agree too often with Wibbs

But you may even clash with me on that one too then

. I do not think anyone outside a relationship has any moral pressure. Being the "other person" is morally ok in my book - you are not reneging on a moral contract that you have made to anyone. The person you are with has.

raze_them_all_ · 31-05-2015 12:11AM

the evasion_kid wrote: »

I've witnessed some low down dirty behavior down through the years,what amazes me is the mental gymnastics some people will do to condone their cheating, all to ease their own conscience or to rid themselves of accountability about it,I'd actually be of the opinion that relationships are pointless nowadays.

I like a bit of strange and like having sex with new different people, no mental gymnastics there

Aidric · 31-05-2015 12:14AM

Colser wrote: »

Are you serious? Why bother getting married or staying married if you want to cheat..why not stay single or split up? Youre not married or cheating on your kids so why bring them into it..what about their mother? Any commitment to her?

It's not a question of want. That reduces the argument to black and white which you can't do when it comes to relationships. I'm not advocating cheating, I'm just saying it can happen without much thought.

KomradeBishop · 31-05-2015 12:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Far be it from me to agree too often with Wibbs But you may even clash with me on that one too then . I do not think anyone outside a relationship has any moral pressure. Being the "other person" is morally ok in my book - you are not reneging on a moral contract that you have made to anyone. The person you are with has.

You'd be knowingly helping somebody cheat though - assisting someone in breaching their partners trust, so you'd share responsibility for that, and (given that these things often tend to be found out) you'd be contributing to doing that person harm.

That'd be the way I look at it anyway

That actually might be a more morally-ambiguous/interesting direction for the thread:
Who has been the 'other guy/girl' in an affair here?

the evasion_kid · 31-05-2015 12:15AM

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

I like a bit of strange and like having sex with new different people, no mental gymnastics there

Well if your alright with it and your partner is...knock yourself out

31-05-2015 12:20AM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

You'd be knowingly helping somebody cheat though

Not sure I see it that way. They have cheated already - they do not need my help. The Jesus nuts go a little over board with this concept with the whole "if a man sexually desires a woman - he has already committed adultery with her in God’s eyes" but they are at least on the right track that if a person is seeking to cheat - then they have essentially already cheated.

What the moral obligation of a person outside a relationship is - to me - is zero. I think all of the moral obligation in a relationship lies entirely on the people IN that relationship. Not the people they breach that relationship with.

KomradeBishop wrote: »

Who has been the 'other guy/girl' in an affair here?

I am 100% sure there was that exact thread on boards once. I am only about 15% sure it was on After Hours. I think it might actually have been elsewhere. If I find it - I will do my best to remember to let you know

But perhaps a poster - who has not been programming for the last 15 hours straight and is still somewhat awake - might find it for me

raze_them_all_ · 31-05-2015 12:21AM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

You'd be knowingly helping somebody cheat though - assisting someone in breaching their partners trust, so you'd share responsibility for that, and (given that these things often tend to be found out) you'd be contributing to doing that person harm.

That'd be the way I look at it anyway That actually might be a more morally-ambiguous/interesting direction for the thread:
Who has been the 'other guy/girl' in an affair here?

me a good bit, nothing morally wrong with it on my part

Cold War Kid · 31-05-2015 12:22AM

raze_them_all_ wrote: »

me a good bit, nothing morally wrong with it on my part

Of course there is. Denial doesn't change a fact.

raze_them_all_ · 31-05-2015 12:22AM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I do. And I have been close to being the other woman (NEVER again - by fuq did I learn my lesson). Getting involved with a person you know is spoken for: of course you have a role to play - the affair wouldn't be happening only for it; I'd happily admit to mine.
It could be argued that *more* responsibility lies with the person who is in a relationship, but certainly not *all*.

Well you did try to justify it with "They kept saying I was a cheat, so I decided I would cheat based on that".

no i didn't i openly admitted to cheating in my first post. Then i mentioned how some accused me of it wrongly so i said **** it and did, that's not trying to justify it

raze_them_all_ · 31-05-2015 12:23AM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Of course there is. Denial doesn't change a fact.

your morals are not my morals

the evasion_kid · 31-05-2015 12:24AM

KomradeBishop wrote: »

You'd be knowingly helping somebody cheat though - assisting someone in breaching their partners trust, so you'd share responsibility for that, and (given that these things often tend to be found out) you'd be contributing to doing that person harm.

That'd be the way I look at it anyway That actually might be a more morally-ambiguous/interesting direction for the thread:
Who has been the 'other guy/girl' in an affair here?

I'd actually agree with you,always found it a bit arseholish especially if they knew before the other person was in a relationship.

silverfeather · 31-05-2015 12:27AM

No I have never cheated. I never would. If you are exclusive end it don't cheat.

I guess you never know if you have been cheated on.

31-05-2015 12:31AM

I too have never cheated. I also believe I never have been. I was dumped once and I know for a fact that a guy she met was instrumental in her decision to leave me - though I do not think they ever ended up together - but I believe while she was with me she never was with him.

But even if she was - I do not care. The relationship was over - whether it happened the moment she told me - or a couple of weeks before - is irrelevant to me.

But I am quite vulnerable that way - especially in the "odd" relationship I am in now - more than ever our relationship is predicated on honesty and openness. To be cheated on now would cut me deeper than most.

I am actually very much open to the idea of the girls being with another guy for a fun night here or there - once or twice or so - as long as it was open and shared and honest. But a breach of trust and honesty? I have never done it. I do not think it has ever happened. And I would find it nearly impossible to forgive.

Smidge · 31-05-2015 12:31AM

I have to say, I wouldn't hold the "Other Person" responsible at all if I were cheated on.
They owe me nothing, not a damn thing.
Even if they knew the person they were with was taken. They took no vow with me, not even an understanding if it were a LTR, never mind a marriage.
That's not to say I would be happy with them

NotMyUsualName · 31-05-2015 12:32AM

silverfeather wrote: »

I guess you never know if you have been cheated on.

True - my partner never knew about my cheating and equally I don't know if they ever cheated on me - and if they did cheat I wouldn't exactly be in a position to criticise!

beks101 · 31-05-2015 12:32AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Never cheated, but have been the "other man" quite a few times. And very rarely felt guilty about it TBH.

On a purely physical level, I'd actually be totally turned off by the idea of having sex with someone who is regularly having sex with someone else. Down to the absolute crudeness of it, he's sticking his d1ck in someone else, maybe he did it this morning, maybe he will again tonight.

I know...protection and showers and all my exes had their own exes etc...but the fact that that sexual intimacy and activity with another partner could co-exist with what I have with the guy - makes me a bit icky.

Colser · 31-05-2015 12:33AM

silverfeather wrote: »

No I have never cheated. I never would. If you are exclusive end it don't cheat.

I guess you never know if you have been cheated on.

Trust your gut..its rarely wrong;)

Wibbs · 31-05-2015 12:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Far be it from me to agree too often with Wibbs But you may even clash with me on that one too then . I do not think anyone outside a relationship has any moral pressure. Being the "other person" is morally ok in my book - you are not reneging on a moral contract that you have made to anyone. The person you are with has.

+1. If they weren't banging me it would be somebody else. They were already looking for a bit on the side, a one off bang before a long term commitment, even wedding(yep) or an "out" of the relationship(more often the latter) and I just happened to be the one they did end up banging.

What always fascinated me were the various justifications for it. I can tell you this, at least IME, it's not nearly just men who come out with the "she just doesn't understand me" BS. If anything I would say, again IMH and obviously as a very general thing, that women are more led by the contents of their pants than men, they just cover it up better.

Oh the stories I could tell of BS, including such highlights as the woman who in the early morning nekkidness and shenanigans was telling me about the organised dinner later that day between her and her fiancé and their respective families discussing the practicals of their upcoming nuptials. If you keep quiet and don't get all advisory or judgey it's amazing what people feel free to tell you. Oh I've known many a otherwise respectfully suburban couples with kids and all that, who had some real shenanigans in their previous life, all washed away in respectability. Again IME in the majority of cases it was the woman who is the born again virginal bride.

Being a slut, like I was, even if for a short enough period of time, can really open your eyes about some people and their lives and the lies they tell themselves and others and how those others, both men and women, are all too quick to buy into the BS, cos the reality might be too hard to swallow.

the evasion_kid · 31-05-2015 12:57AM

Wibbs wrote: »

+1. If they weren't banging me it would be somebody else. They were already looking for a bit on the side, a one off bang before a long term commitment, even wedding(yep) or an "out" of the relationship(more often the latter) and I just happened to be the one they did end up banging.

What always fascinated me were the various justifications for it. I can tell you this, at least IME, it's not nearly just men who come out with the "she just doesn't understand me" BS. If anything I would say, again IMH and obviously as a very general thing, that women are more led by the contents of their pants than men, they just cover it up better.

Oh the stories I could tell of BS, including such highlights as the woman who in the early morning nekkidness and shenanigans was telling me about the organised dinner later that day between her and her fiancé and their respective families discussing the practicals of their upcoming nuptials. If you keep quiet and don't get all advisory or judgey it's amazing what people feel free to tell you. Oh I've known many a otherwise respectfully suburban couples with kids and all that, who had some real shenanigans in their previous life, all washed away in respectability. Again IME in the majority of cases it was the woman who is the born again virginal bride.

Being a slut, like I was, even if for a short enough period of time, can really open your eyes about some people and their lives and the lies they tell themselves and others and how those others, both men and women, are all too quick to buy into the BS, cos the reality might be too hard to swallow.

The clearer your vision...the more you wish you were blind

Wibbs · 31-05-2015 12:58AM

beks101 wrote: »

On a purely physical level, I'd actually be totally turned off by the idea of having sex with someone who is regularly having sex with someone else.

OK B, but unless you're dealing with a virgin, they, both men and women have had sex and plenty of it with others and likely recently enough too. Even if you're the exclusive boyfriend or girlfriend you ain't nearly the first, so in the scheme of things it hardly matters. Not in the physical sense anyway.

Colser wrote:

Trust your gut..its rarely wrong

Oh that is wrong way more than many think. I've seen too many men and women rely on it and find out later it was about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Wibbs · 31-05-2015 01:01AM

the evasion_kid wrote: »

The clearer your vision...the more you wish you were blind

Plus a gazillion tE_K. Very much so. Naive/innocent is so much better. Even if you get your heart broken, t'is better than clarity IMHO. I have known the two states and I'd much rather be the naive than the knowing.

Colser · 31-05-2015 01:01AM

Wibbs wrote: »

OK B, but unless you're dealing with a virgin, they, both men and women have had sex and plenty of it with others and likely recently enough too. Even if you're the exclusive boyfriend or girlfriend you ain't nearly the first, so in the scheme of things it hardly matters. Not in the physical sense anyway.

Oh that is wrong way more than many think. I've seen too many men and women rely on it and find out later it was about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.[/QUOTE]
Maybe so but it worked for me....unfortunately

31-05-2015 01:05AM

Wibbs wrote: »

+1. If they weren't banging me it would be somebody else.

I did not want to put it in quite those terms but that is essentially my point yes. A cheater has cheated already in most cases. They are normally on the outskirts of the relationship before anything even happens at all. *

* But even with murder we acknowledge crimes of passion - I do also acknowledge those rarer occasions of pure simple in the moment lust - but exception to the rule.

Wibbs wrote: »

If anything I would say, again IMH and obviously as a very general thing, that women are more led by the contents of their pants than men, they just cover it up better.

I think I would be less controversial and simply suggest it is equal. The general idea in society is it is men that are always looking to "stick it in somewhere else". I have never been convinced by this. I think our "fairer sex" are just as titillated by the intrigue and the chase and the temptation every bit as much as we are - mediated somewhat of course by their uneven biological investment into things - but I have seen little reason in MY experience (disclaimer) to suggest they are any worse than we are.

It is one of those many divisions between the sexes I reject - and categorise under just being a "human" thing. We all have the temptations and the compulsions. And in the moment of the chase - we all regardless of sex - love that moment of realisation that "this person WANTS me".

The "BS" of justifications for our infidelities however needs no conversation. I would not demean either of us by dragging that one out. We - both sexes again - can come up with the most colorful of nonsense to justify giving into temptations and desires. I hope - if the day ever does come when I cheat on anyone - that I have the strength to simply sit up and call myself an asshole who gave into my weakness - and not try to narrate a justification to myself or others for it

Cold War Kid · 31-05-2015 01:09AM

Wibbs wrote: »

+1. If they weren't banging me it would be somebody else. They were already looking for a bit on the side, a one off bang before a long term commitment, even wedding(yep) or an "out" of the relationship(more often the latter) and I just happened to be the one they did end up banging.

But maybe not. You're still facilitating this particular affair. I am not being judgemental - as I said, I'm not in a position to judge, but I don't understand the abdication of responsibility by the other party just because they are single. I'm not being difficult - I genuinely can't see how they have nothing to be guilty about (ok if they don't feel guilty, they don't feel guilty - but that doesn't change IMO that they have a role to play in this infidelity, and objectively speaking, do share the guilt).

What always fascinated me were the various justifications for it. I can tell you this, at least IME, it's not nearly just men who come out with the "she just doesn't understand me" BS.

Of course not.

If anything I would say, again IMH and obviously as a very general thing, that women are more led by the contents of their pants than men, they just cover it up better.

50/50 I'd think. I do think women are deemed to have more of a "licence" so to speak and get more sympathy, which is bullsh-t of course.

Being a slut, like I was, even if for a short enough period of time, can really open your eyes about some people and their lives and the lies they tell themselves and others and how those others, both men and women, are all too quick to buy into the BS, cos the reality might be too hard to swallow.

But facilitating this makes the other person not really in a position to judge, to be fair.

the evasion_kid · 31-05-2015 01:10AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Plus a gazillion tE_K. Very much so. Naive/innocent is so much better. Even if you get your heart broken, t'is better than clarity IMHO. I have known the two states and I'd much rather be the naive than the knowing.

Theres no turning back though that's the thing,once the curtain comes down that's it, ball burst..over and out roger!

31-05-2015 01:12AM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

I don't understand the abdication of responsibility by the other party just because they are single.

Perhaps your own wording indicates why you do not understand it. I think I - and I warrant wibbs too though I would never dare speak on his behalf - would point out that we do not see that we had a responsibility in the first place - so how can one abdicate it? It makes no more sense to me than attempting to step down as queen of England in the morning - how can I abdicate the throne I do not sit in?

Wibbs · 31-05-2015 01:17AM

Cold War Kid wrote: »

But facilitating this makes the other person not really in a position to judge, to be fair.

Actually IMH it makes them the perfect judge. They're outside of the relationship, with no promises made and broken. In my case I was never looking for a "proper" relationship out of it, I was just into the "fun". Plus it's a really daft plan to hook up with someone if it's coming from cheating(though soooo many do, thinking they're the "One" who will change the pattern). One day, you'll be the one cheated on, or worse, they'll stick with you out of desperation and hate you for it. A very good rule IMHO is if you're dealing with someone who overlapped a previous partner with you however briefly, engage your genitals alright, but do not engage your heart.

Cold War Kid · 31-05-2015 01:24AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Perhaps your own wording indicates why you do not understand it. I think I - and I warrant wibbs too though I would never dare speak on his behalf - would point out that we do not see that we had a responsibility in the first place - so how can one abdicate it?

Knowingly getting involved with someone who is in a relationship? Ah there's a responsibility there all right.

31-05-2015 01:24AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Plus it's a really daft plan to hook up with someone if it's coming from cheating(though soooo many do, thinking they're the "One" who will change the pattern). One day, you'll be the one cheated on, or worse

I think here you have hit smack into the middle of the continuum of the matter. Because in so so so many cases you are 100% right.

But in that area of the continuum there are so many souls who are in a relationship - sometimes a good one, sometimes bad, sometimes rocky, it varies - but they suddenly meet "the one" (ok I do not believe in the concept of "the one" but they meet a person who actually IS right for them) and they end up cheating and transitioning into that relationship.

And it genuinely does often end in happily ever after from there.

The fact is we are all stone ignorant about relationships when we enter into them. We think we know what we want from a young age (usually lots of sex and maybe kids who knows) but our expectations change with age AND experience.

And there genuinely are innumerable people who - while in a relationship - suddenly meet "a one" who is right for them and - whether from the passion of the moment - or whether from fear of losing that moment or that person - basically cheat.

So I think no - I would not be a 100% subscriber to concepts like "once a cheat always a cheat" or that patterns are unbreakable. Rather I think there is just too many variances out there to generalise anything at all. And I genuinely feel for those people "caught in the moment" of realising "this might actually be the person I want".

Cold War Kid wrote: »

Knowingly getting involved with someone who is in a relationship? Ah there's a responsibility there all right.

Yeah. On the person in the relationship

I think I - and wibbs - said that already

Ever being cheated on or done the cheating?

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