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Are you willing to learn Irish to keep the language alive

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Comments

  • #122
    rosobel
    Site Banned Posts: 28 ✭rosobel


    Bayberry wrote: »
    I've read some bull**** on boards, but that has to take the biscuit!

    It's true though, do you ever listen to yourself when you speak? you should try it sometime and you'll notice how different you pronounce vowels to how different females pronounce them


  • #123
    Reiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Reiver


    rosobel wrote: »
    In all fairness considering not one of us can speak a word of Irish he was probably just saying he wants to take the piss

    Bit of a generalisation.


  • #124
    Bayberry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭Bayberry


    Grayson wrote: »
    I think you missed the point. It's a very valuable skill. The next 20 years are going to make the last 20 years in computing look tame.

    We're talking about teaching kids a language like Irish. We should be looking at teaching them IT skills. Knowing how to program is a very valuable skill. It will be as important as learning basic maths.
    As someone who started my working life as a programmer, this is just nonsense. 99.9% of people will never have any need to program anything more elaborate than a recurring calendar entry for the rest of their lives. There is value in teaching kids the basics of problem solving that are needed to do anyting in the modern world. Kids need to learn how to learn, and programming can be an effective way to do that. But focussing on teaching "all" kids a practical language like Java will just guarantee that there will be even more crap Java programmers polluting the wor in 10 years time. If programming is to be learned, it should be a synthetic teaching/learning language, and once the innate principles are understood, the practical skill should be transferrable to any number of different langauges. The kids who can't grasp that shouldn't be allowed near a compiler :-)
    [/QUOTE]


  • #125
    Bayberry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭Bayberry


    rosobel wrote: »
    It's true though,
    No, it's not true. It's utter bull****!


  • #126
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    rosobel wrote: »
    Now you are just arguing semantics, a soothing voice to you could be shrill to me, what you hear isn't what I hear so using that to argue that a voice masks the underlying flaws in the language is pointless

    In other words, an ugly language to you might be a beautiful language to someone else - a matter of personal preference.

    Delighted we agree :)


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  • #127
    Merces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭Merces


    Here's how to keep it alive-stop forcing people to learn it! I hate the fact that my leaving cert depended on a dead language. Instead make it optional and get people inspired to learn it by teaching Celtic mythology as part of the curriculum.


  • #128
    rosobel
    Site Banned Posts: 28 ✭rosobel


    Bayberry wrote: »
    No, it's not true. It's utter bull****!

    Actually it is true, I'm male to female transsexual and spend many a day being told by speech therapists that females elongate their vowels and cut off their consonants whereas males elongate their consonants and cut off their vowels. As a competent programmer I would expect you to have even the most basic understanding of how male and female speech patterns work since their speech patterns bleed into common linguistics. It's not rocket science.


  • #129
    rosobel
    Site Banned Posts: 28 ✭rosobel


    Bayberry wrote: »
    No, it's not true. It's utter bull****!

    Actually it is true, I'm male to female transsexual and spent many a day being told by speech therapists that females elongate their vowels and cut off their consonants whereas males elongate their consonants and cut off their vowels. As a competent programmer I would expect you to have even the most basic understanding of how male and female speech patterns work since speech patterns bleed into common linguistics. It's not rocket science.


  • #130
    rosobel
    Site Banned Posts: 28 ✭rosobel


    Dughorm wrote: »
    In other words, an ugly language to you might be a beautiful language to someone else - a matter of personal preference.

    Delighted we agree :)

    We don't agree, you just don't want to accept that we differ.


  • #131
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    rosobel wrote: »
    We don't agree, you just don't want to accept that we differ.

    Oh I accept that Irish might be a beautiful language to me and an ugly language to you. Just as I also accept what you said about a soothing tone to me could be a shrill tone to you. it's all a matter of taste :)


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  • #132
    Merces
    Closed Accounts Posts: 97 ✭✭Merces


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Men from cork say "Noooo" all the time? ;)

    rosobel wrote: »
    Actually it is true, I'm male to female transsexual and spent many a day being told by speech therapists that females elongate their vowels and cut off their consonants whereas males elongate their consonants and cut off their vowels. As a competent programmer I would expect you to have even the most basic understanding of how male and female speech patterns work since speech patterns bleed into common linguistics. It's not rocket science.

    This is actually true. I'm male to female transsexual also, and from Cork originally, and I've been told that my accent makes my voice training a bit easier become I naturally elongate my vowels which is (generally) a prime trait of female voice intonation.


  • #133
    KingBrian2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,363 ✭✭✭KingBrian2


    I watch the occasional Irish show with the subtitles. I am poor at languages so getting interested and involved in Irish is something I would find hard to do.


  • #134
    rosobel
    Site Banned Posts: 28 ✭rosobel


    Dughorm wrote: »
    Oh I accept that Irish might be a beautiful language to me and an ugly language to you. Just as I also accept what you said about a soothing tone to me could be a shrill tone to you. it's all a matter of taste :)

    I'm willing to accept that as a compromise since I'm not really arsed to get into an argument about it :)


  • #135
    Alibaba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Alibaba


    When you think about it ,it must be costing a fortune teaching a language to

    every student in the country that possibly 10% (and possibly a lot less ) will ever

    use.


  • #136
    irishlad12345
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 358 ✭✭irishlad12345


    if the make it optional after the junior cert and get rid of it as a requirement for college instead making a 2nd language a requirement which can include irish or french etc then i think the hatred of the language wont be as severe as it is today


  • #137
    doolox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭doolox


    No. English is my mother tongue. I am an anglophone and I feel that one language is sufficient in our country. Ireland always had a significant population of English speaking people who are made to feel like second class citizens in their own country because of a lack of Irish language skills.

    If I were to have an official job in a gaeltacht area where there is a right to conduct business in Irish I would do it, if only to conform with peoples constitutional right to deal with government agencies in the language of their choice.


  • #138
    Paramite Pie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Paramite Pie


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    What would I gain over speaking English ? Speaking English gives me a much better option speaking to people especially from a foreign country. At the moment if I Learnt Irish I would only be able to communicate with a very very small section of people. Where as English gives me access to the world pretty much It is basically the language of business.

    No one's asking you to forget English. The statement I've bolded is absolutely ridiculous.
    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Making all primary schools gaelscoileanna would'nt be that difficult and it would revive the language.

    I think this is the only way to revive the language. However there'd be too much resistance in many areas, it really should have been done post independence.
    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    learning Klingon would give me access to more people than speaking Irish. I mean no offence at all, It has no Practical benefits over the language I speak.

    There's more to learning a language than practicality, otherwise no one would learn Klingon either.;)


  • #139
    Reiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Reiver


    Alibaba wrote: »
    When you think about it ,it must be costing a fortune teaching a language to

    every student in the country that possibly 10% (and possibly a lot less ) will ever

    use.

    Should probably scrap Shakespeare, poetry, coordinate geometry and integration from the curriculum as well then.


  • #140
    rosobel
    Site Banned Posts: 28 ✭rosobel


    doolox wrote: »
    No. English is my mother tongue. I am an anglophone and I feel that one language is sufficient in our country. Ireland always had a significant population of English speaking people who are made to feel like second class citizens in their own country because of a lack of Irish language skills.

    Really? I have to say I have never seen any Irish person being treated like a second class citizen just because they couldn't speak Irish, I think you are exaggerating there Ted


  • #141
    doolox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭doolox


    Entry to NUI and certain civil service jobs even in English speaking areas had Irish language competence imposed on people not so long ago.

    In school near a gaeltacht area I was made to feel alienated by some of the teachers for my lack of competence or interest in Irish due to my parents lack of knowledge or background in speaking Irish.

    The Irish speaking pupils were never made to feel inferior for their, at that time, lack of knowledge of English and a more sympathetic view was taken in helping them through their difficulties with what was for them a strange and foreign tongue:English.

    Too much emphasis is placed, in my view, on learning a very unused and dying language by people when better skills in Science and Maths would increase ordinary peoples chances of obtaining and retaining quality employment in an increasingly competitive and pressurised labour market.

    The use of sarcasm, by your reference to a stupid clerical comic character in your hostile reply to my feelings about Irish were typical of the approach taken by many ineffective educators in my past which has only increased my abiding hatred for a dead language.


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  • #142
    Alibaba
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭Alibaba


    Reiver wrote: »
    Should probably scrap Shakespeare, poetry, coordinate geometry and integration from the curriculum as well then.

    Point taken.. But a lot of that is not compulsory.


  • #143
    Reiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Reiver


    Alibaba wrote: »
    Point taken.. But a lot of that is not compulsory.

    Shakespeare is for honours English. Poetry is present for pass.

    Even the lads in pass maths had to do coordinate geometry. I think they got lucky with integration though and were able to miss it.


  • #144
    Bayberry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭Bayberry


    doolox wrote: »
    Ireland always had a significant population of English speaking people who are made to feel like second class citizens in their own country because of a lack of Irish language skills.
    Do you think a native Irish speaker might feel rather more like a second class citizen having to abandon their native language to deal with practically any state services these days, never mind any commercial entities.


  • #145
    Reiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Reiver


    doolox wrote: »
    The use of sarcasm, by your reference to a stupid clerical comic character in your hostile reply to my feelings about Irish were typical of the approach taken by many ineffective educators in my past which has only increased my abiding hatred for a dead language.

    I thought people still speak it? It's not Latin or Pictish.


  • #146
    Bayberry
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭Bayberry


    doolox wrote: »
    If I were to have an official job in a gaeltacht area where there is a right to conduct business in Irish I would do it, if only to conform with peoples constitutional right to deal with government agencies in the language of their choice.
    People's constitutional right to deal with government agencies through Irish isn't limited to Gaeltacht areas.

    Not that it matters - even for people who live in the Gaeltacht, it's a right that gets lip-service at best.


  • #147
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


  • #148
    Shep_Dog
    Closed Accounts Posts: 499 ✭✭Shep_Dog


    Paramite Pie wrote: »
    No one's asking you to forget English. The statement I've bolded is absolutely ridiculous.
    Conradh na Gaelge exists to replace English with Irish as the common tongue of Ireland.


  • #149
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    But people don't have freedom of choice or freedom of expression.Your not allowed to do anything that is illegal without being punished.The government decides for the public what their freedoms are.

    Selling drugs only harms the person who uses them yet you'll get sent to jail for possessing them because the government decides that is what they want to do.

    Real freedom doesn't exist anymore.

    I nevert said they did - I said trying to restrict it even further was selfish and arrogant.

    What does pushing drugs have to do with pushing Irish?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #150
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    I nevert said they did - I said trying to restrict it even further was selfish and arrogant.

    What does pushing drugs have to do with pushing Irish?

    Because you said this "To recap: you have no right to take freedom of choice and freedom of expession away from people".

    The government takes away peoples right to freedom of choice and expression by introducing laws.Banning the sale of drugs is one of the ways they do it and people don't have an issue with it.


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  • #151
    Wacker The Attacker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,473 ✭✭✭Wacker The Attacker


    bollocks to the irish language.


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