Are you willing to learn Irish to keep the language alive

Iwasfrozen

Reiver wrote: »

Dunno lad, never got further south than Manaus.

Negligible.

It displays huge ignorance of foreign culture to say countries without a language have no soul and implies the speaker is an uneducated isolationist little Irelander.

/end rant

Reiver

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Negligible.

It displays huge ignorance of foreign culture to say countries without a language have no soul and implies the speaker is an uneducated little Irelander.

/end rant

Sorry I forgot the Portuguese colonial regime was the illuminating light of civilisation which brought peace and prosperity to the people of South America.

It displays huge ignorance of history to make such sweeping generalisations and implies the speaker is an uneducated colonial nostalgic.

/end rant.

Iwasfrozen

Reiver wrote: »

Sorry I forgot the Portuguese colonial regime was the illuminating light of civilisation which brought peace and prosperity to the people of South America.

It displays huge ignorance of history to make such sweeping generalisations and implies the speaker is an uneducated colonial nostalgic.

/end rant.

It implies an inability to follow a logical train of thought when a person invents an argument and incorrectly attributes that argument to another person.

/end rant.

NIMAN

We need a referendum on the Irish language!

Reiver

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It implies an inability to follow a logical train of thought when a person invents an argument and incorrectly attributes that argument to another person.

/end rant.

Whatever. It's Sunday, let peace be on earth. Let's not get off topic.

BonsaiKitten

Lyaiera wrote: »

If it wasn't a hassle to learn it I would. If there was somewhere nearby, that was affordable and had decent teaching methods I'd give it a go.

There are Irish courses on duolingo afaik.

El Horseboxo

I'm a Latino black American that spent a few years in Ireland and went balls to the wall learning gaeilge because I was so interested in the culture. I self learned to a competent enough level where I could speak and understood maybe 90% of conversations. No excuse for natives if the dedication is there.

keith16

You can make the language optional all you want. Fundamentally, if the way the language is taught remains in the stone age, then very few would be taking up that option. A shame.

jackofalltrades

El Horseboxo wrote: »

I'm a Latino black American that spent a few years in Ireland and went balls to the wall learning gaeilge because I was so interested in the culture. I self learned to a competent enough level where I could speak and understood maybe 90% of conversations. No excuse for natives if the dedication is there.

Come back to us after you've been forced to learn it for 12/13 years, then you can pass judgement on us "natives".

jackofalltrades

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Come back to us after you've been forced to learn it for 12/13 years, then you can pass judgement on us "natives".

You're taught Irish, it's up to you as an individual whether to use it or not, don't blame the "system".

Alibaba

NIMAN wrote: »

We need a referendum on the Irish language!

Just hope the Question isn't in Irish ... 😊😉

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Come back to us after you've been forced to learn it for 12/13 years, then you can pass judgement on us "natives".

In fiarness, he has a point: if the dedication is there. It clearly isn't.

But that said part of the reason it's not is because, again it's a school subject. It's not supposed to be liked.

Teachers just teach what's needed to pass exams - they don;t teach enjoyment or passion. It's not seen as their remit. And the reason for that as I just said in the other thread, is because they're trainined to pass on knowledge and information, not engagethe kids their teaching.

So we go full circle. The passion and dedication is not there. Have a look att he poll results if you need further evidence.

Deleted User wrote: »

You're taught Irish, it's up to you as an individual whether to use it or not, don't blame the "system".

Then why does the system not encourage people to use it?

Too many people simply aren't bothered to learn it to keep it progressing. Enough to keep it alive, but that's about it. And based on the fact the the system is content with that and promotes this sceraio, I'd argue that yes - the problem is the system.

It's arrogant to blame people for making a choice you don't agree with.

jackofalltrades

Deleted User wrote: »

You're taught Irish, it's up to you as an individual whether to use it or not, don't blame the "system".

Don't strain your neck talking down from your high horse.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

But that said part of the reason it's not is because, again it's a school subject. It's not supposed to be liked.

Teachers just teach what's needed to pass exams - they don;t teach enjoyment or passion.

I'd plenty of teachers who were passionate about the subjects they taught.
It was even the basis on one occasion for picking subjects in secondary school.

Too many people simply aren't bothered to learn it to keep it progressing. Enough to keep it alive, but that's about it.

That's pretty much a spot on assessment.
No generation wants to be the one that let the Irish language die.
We continue to force it down people's throats based on this idea, just doing enough to keep it alive.
This carries over into how it's taught.

El Horseboxo

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Come back to us after you've been forced to learn it for 12/13 years, then you can pass judgement on us "natives".

I don't get your point. I learned enough to understand most conversations, news broadcasts and read articles in a few years. If I had of been forced to learn it for 13 years and I had the interest in it. I'm pretty sure I could call myself fluent at this stage in lieu of advanced conversational.

My point was, if you have an interest in learning something. You will learn it.

jackofalltrades

El Horseboxo wrote: »

I don't get your point. I learned enough to understand most conversations, news broadcasts and read articles in a few years. If I had of been forced to learn it for 13 years and I had the interest in it. I'm pretty sure I could call myself fluent at this stage in lieu of advanced conversational.

My point was, if you have an interest in learning something. You will learn it.

I felt your post was being judgemental of people who grew up learning Irish in this country.
Where even if you were dedicated, the terrible way in which it was taught and the fact that it's mandatory but a lot of people off the language for life.

Just have nicer Irish teachers. Every one i had were arrogant pricks. Not one nice one.

Kiwi in IE

If I had moved here and you all spoke Irish, I would have had to learn it. Because you all speak English, I have no need to learn Irish. If I was going to learn another language properly, no offence, but Irish would not be high on the agenda. I would prefer to learn something that would benefit me when I visit the country of that language. For example, I need French to be able to function properly in France, so I would rather learn French, because I can already function properly in Ireland.

JanaMay

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Negligible.

It displays huge ignorance of foreign culture to say countries without a language have no soul and implies the speaker is an uneducated isolationist little Irelander.

/end rant

I think the expression I quoted means that a language is one of the (many) things that can unite and identify a population. Obviously many nations exist that don't have one single indigenous language, spoken by all of the populace (usually because of historical/colonial/mass media reasons).

However, in my opinion, a common language, and not one that is imposed from outside, is something that can help bond a nation and forge a common identity. And I wouldn't like to see our Irish language lost without doing our utmost to keep it alive. And that might involve changing how it it is taught, given that it seems to be so unpalatable to so many.

Also lol at being called an 'uneducated isolationist little Irelander'! Love it, it's a first for me!

_Kaiser_

Nope, was spared having to learn it in school (lived abroad for a few years when I was 9 and got an exemption on our return) and no intention to start learning it now.

It is and has been effectively a dead language for decades, surviving only on the goodwill of the taxpayer (who are forced to pump a ridiculous amount of money into it) and a few Gaeltact areas (all of whom speak and use fluent English too of course), but were it not for that it would have died off years ago.

The only reasons I ever see for maintaining it are:
- it's "our" heritage/culture/other such parochial nonsense
- isn't it handy when on holiday abroad and you want to have a private conversation (this assumes of course there are many more fluent Irish speakers in holiday than at home I guess)
- you must be "less Irish" or a "West Brit" if you don't value it

None of which of course offer any real reason why we should devote hours and hours of classroom time to it every week, or what actual benefit it is in a country that speaks English natively and as it's first language in virtually all cases anyway!

Meanwhile of course, kids in other countries are already fluent in at least 2 modern European languages (including English) at primary level and then end up working here in the multinationals we're so fond of / reliant on for investment and jobs... Then we wonder why Irish people can't get jobs in these places.

Irish, like Religion, belongs in the home or dedicated after school classes. I wonder how many of the pro-Irish lobby would be so keen if they had to fund it themselves rather than expecting every parent and taxpayer to pay for their lifestyle /cultural hobby horse.

In a country with limited resources and an increasingly diverse population, it's time to get it out of schools and devote that time to far more useful pursuits.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

It's arrogant to blame people for making a choice you don't agree with.

It's an observation rather than a criticism, if people wanted to save the language, they would, but clearly, they don't.

jackofalltrades

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Don't strain your neck talking down from your high horse.

Please see the reply in the previous post!

whats newxt

No, Now Pog Mo Thoin.

inocybe

I can't answer the poll question, because I did learn Irish. I passed leaving cert Irish but I can't help keep it alive because I can hardly string a sentence together. Now I have a son who's straight A's in every other subject, but failing Irish. I'm going to have to pay out for grinds to scrape him through the exams. And the resentment continues through the next generation, it's ludicrous.