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Are you willing to learn Irish to keep the language alive

13567

Comments

  • #62
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Making all primary schools gaelscoileanna would'nt be that difficult and it would revive the language.
    This is just a further extension of forcing Irish onto people, which just makes them hate it.
    Let the people who want to send their kids to a gaelscoil do that and leave the parents that don't well alone.


  • #63
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    This is just a further extension of forcing Irish onto people, which just makes them hate it.
    Let the people who want to send their kids to a gaelscoil do that and leave the parents that don't well alone.

    But again it proves my point as the children won't hate it as children are too young to make judgments like that.They would see it as a natural thing and it wouldn't negatively impact their lives (in spite of what large amounts of people would say).

    It would be the parents of the children that are the problem.

    Children are forced to do lots of things in their lives and they have to get on with it.

    My idea is probably the only realistic way of reviving the language as understandably the vast majority of people don't want to put an effort into it.


  • #64
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    It would be the parents of the children that are the problem.
    Exactly you're taking away the choice that parents have in the school that they choose.
    People get understandably upset when you take their choices away.
    You're also forcing them to have to relearn a language that they could hate, so as to be able to help their kids out with their homework.
    My idea is probably the only realistic way of reviving the language as understandably the vast majority of people don't want to put an effort into it.
    Which is their choice and it should be respected.


  • #65
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    jackofalltrades wrote: »
    Exactly you're taking away the choice that parents have in the school that they choose.
    People get understandably upset when you take their choices away.
    You're also forcing them to have to relearn a language that they could hate, so as to be able to help their kids out with their homework.

    Which is their choice and it should be respected.

    Fair enough.Then the language will more than likely die out which is sad in my opinion.

    Peoples choices are taken away from them constantly and they have to get on with it.We have no choice but to pay taxes, obey the law etc.If the government decided that from now on all primary schools were to teach everything in irish and it was to be the spoken language in schools people would have to get on with it and it wouldn't have any negative impact on the children.


  • #66
    An Ciarraioch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,806 ✭✭✭An Ciarraioch


    Even if you do know Irish, the catch-22 scenario often arises whereby you want to speak it, but you don't want to force the other person to speak it if they don't know any, yet the only way to know if they do have Irish is to speak it yourself.


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  • #67
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    I have not heard that language spoken in the real world since i left school twenty years ago

    Stop flogging a dead horse and put the money into something your average kid might use in their future


  • #68
    Irish Guitarist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    Learning it in school was enough misery to last me a lifetime. I know maybe five Irish words but I couldn't speak or write even one coherent Irish sentence. That's not because I've forgotten it. I just never picked it up in school. I spent twelve years of my life listening to nonsense and just not taking in any of it. Everything that was taught in Irish class just went in one ear and out the other.

    It also turned me off of learning other languages. By the time I started secondary school and started taking French and German classes I already had the idea in my head that I was no good at learning languages. I still can't speak French or German.


  • #69
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,298 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Peoples choices are taken away from them constantly and they have to get on with it.We have no choice but to pay taxes, obey the law etc.
    Given the increasing liberal trend in law making in Western democracies, I think you'd get a lot of opposition if you started going in the opposite direction.
    If the government decided that from now on all primary schools were to teach everything in irish and it was to be the spoken language in schools people would have to get on with it and it wouldn't have any negative impact on the children.
    Could they legally do this? I don't think they could.
    I'd say this would be incredibly unpopular with the public.
    It would overnight make it very difficult for non-Irish speakers to help their children with their homework.
    That and you'd be increasing the workload of children who are already struggling to learn English.


  • #70
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    But again it proves my point as the children won't hate it as children are too young to make judgments like that.They would see it as a natural thing and it wouldn't negatively impact their lives (in spite of what large amounts of people would say).

    It would be the parents of the children that are the problem.

    Children are forced to do lots of things in their lives and they have to get on with it.

    My idea is probably the only realistic way of reviving the language as understandably the vast majority of people don't want to put an effort into it.

    You made the exact same comemnt in the other thread and it was rebuked in the exact same way: doing something simply because you're told to is stupid. Doing it because it's nessecary, isn't. When I pointed this out, you said "fair enough" - what's changed in those last few hours?

    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Fair enough.Then the language will more than likely die out which is sad in my opinion.

    Peoples choices are taken away from them constantly and they have to get on with it.We have no choice but to pay taxes, obey the law etc.If the government decided that from now on all primary schools were to teach everything in irish and it was to be the spoken language in schools people would have to get on with it and it wouldn't have any negative impact on the children.

    You want to take choice away from people and endorse it as a good thing...? That's just... insane.

    You're whole attitude is exactly the problem at the moment: people think they can just force their will onto larger groups in order achieve a personal goal and said groups will just "get on with it".

    Boy are you in for a rude awakening if that moment ever comes to pass.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #71
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Considering how much time and money has been wasted teaching Irish to just about every single person natively born the country, I think it can be considered one of the biggest wastes of public and intellectual resources in the entire country - and I can not understand how it is still a mandatory subject.


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  • #72
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,845 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    No.

    That miserable oul wan Peig put me off Irish for life.


  • #73
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    You made the exact same comemnt in the other thread and it was rebuked in the exact same way: doing something simply because you're told to is stupid. Doing it because it's nessecary, isn't. When I pointed this out, you said "fair enough" - what's changed in those last few hours?




    You want to take choice away from people and endorse it as a good thing...? That's just... insane.

    You're whole attitude is exactly the problem at the moment: people think they can just force their will onto larger groups in order achieve a personal goal and said groups will just "get on with it".

    Boy are you in for a rude awakening if that moment ever comes to pass.

    I said fair enough to the argument that people should do it if they wanted to but I also added that it would probably lead to the extinction of the language.

    I would suspect the only way to revive the language is to simply have children educated through it so they speak it constantly for 8 hours a day and then by the time they leave primary school will be fluent and be using the language when talking to their friends etc.

    If the government simply made it a rule that all primary schools had to teach through Irish people would have to deal with it and get on with it and there would be no negative to it and the children would not mind either as they wouldn't know any better.

    Children are forced to do lots of subjects that have no practical benefit and nobody has the slightest issue with it, so why does this attitude change when it comes to Irish.


  • #74
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

    If the government simply made it a rule that all primary schools had to teach through Irish people would have to deal with it and get on with it and there would be no negative to it and the children would not mind either as they wouldn't know any better.

    Children are forced to do lots of subjects that have no practical benefit and nobody has the slightest issue with it, so why does this attitude change when it comes to Irish.

    But that's completely unrealistic - why should parents have no choice in the matter? And there would be a negative - children wouldn't learn as much English so our rankings in international reading tests would suffer and as well as that learning maths through Irish would be no joke for your average student.

    What are all these subjects with no practical benefit by the way?


  • #75
    Reiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Reiver


    ihavenoname3 wrote: »
    I heard a guy talking to his kids in Irish in a supermarket recently, more giving out to them, but if I am honest I was cringing for him, it seemed like he was showing off using Irish. then he got his change from the cashier and said cheers lol. it is sad that these days people who give their kids Irish names, speak Irish and send their kids to gaelscoil's come across as pretentious (the people who dont live in Gaeltacht areas). I don't think Irish should be compulsory in schools.

    Plenty of native speakers live outside the Gaeltacht whether because of work/studies/whatever.


  • #76
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Dughorm wrote: »
    But that's completely unrealistic - why should parents have no choice in the matter? And there would be a negative - children wouldn't learn as much English so our rankings in international reading tests would suffer and as well as that learning maths through Irish would be no joke for your average student.

    What are all these subjects with no practical benefit by the way?

    Parents don't have a choice on whether they send their children to school so if all schools have to teach through Irish they will just have to get on with it.

    Depends on what job you have but as I am in Financial services anything above the basics in most things has no practical benefit: English,Maths,Geography,History etc don't really have a

    I work with people from Spain,Germany and France and they all could speak English perfectly and at the same time not forget how to speak their native tongue whey would people from Ireland be any different from them.

    I am not saying the government should bring this rule in what I am saying is that it is probably the only thing that would work.

    If Irish was never spoken again I could live with it but it's sad to see the language die and what I suggest is probably the only thing that could possibly revive it.It won't be revived by people who want to do it learning it themselves s there simply isn't enough people who are interested in it.


  • #77
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    I said fair enough to the argument that people should do it if they wanted to but I also added that it would probably lead to the extinction of the language.

    I would suspect the only way to revive the language is to simply have children educated through it so they speak it constantly for 8 hours a day and then by the time they leave primary school will be fluent and be using the language when talking to their friends etc.

    If the government simply made it a rule that all primary schools had to teach through Irish people would have to deal with it and get on with it and there would be no negative to it and the children would not mind either as they wouldn't know any better.

    Children are forced to do lots of subjects that have no practical benefit and nobody has the slightest issue with it, so why does this attitude change when it comes to Irish.

    Again, covered all these points previously. To recap: you have no right to take freedom of choice and freedom of expession away from people. Education should be moving away from this idea, not right into it. Being forced to do things that have no practical benefit is the core of the problem - especially where children and education are concerned and people DO have a problem with it - and yet you're using it as justification for a purely selfish motive.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #78
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Again, covered all these points previously. To recap: you have no right to take freedom of choice and freedom of expession away from people. Being forced to do things that have no practical benefit is the core of the problem - especially where children and education are concerned and people DO have a problem with it - and yet you're using it as justification for a purely selfish motive.


    But people don't have freedom of choice or freedom of expression.Your not allowed to do anything that is illegal without being punished.The government decides for the public what their freedoms are.

    Selling drugs only harms the person who uses them yet you'll get sent to jail for possessing them because the government decides that is what they want to do.

    Real freedom doesn't exist anymore.


  • #79
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Are you willing to learn Irish to keep the language alive?

    lol no. Let it die if no one wants to speak it.


  • #80
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Parents don't have a choice on whether they send their children to school so if all schools have to teach through Irish they will just have to get on with it.

    Depends on what job you have but as I am in Financial services anything above the basics in most things has no practical benefit: English,Maths,Geography,History etc don't really have a

    I work with people from Spain,Germany and France and they all could speak English perfectly and at the same time not forget how to speak their native tongue whey would people from Ireland be any different from them.

    I am not saying the government should bring this rule in what I am saying is that it is probably the only thing that would work.

    If Irish was never spoken again I could live with it but it's sad to see the language die and what I suggest is probably the only thing that could possibly revive it.It won't be revived by people who want to do it learning it themselves s there simply isn't enough people who are interested in it.
    I don't want my child educated through Irish. That is within my rights as a parent.

    Also teacher's unions wouldn't agree to it so the idea would be a total non-starter. (omg unions actually do something useful!)


  • #81
    Reiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Reiver


    Learning it right now.

    Working as an English teacher abroad but I'd like to get into primary teaching when I'm back. Dropped down into pass when I was 6th year so I don't meet the language requirement, have to get an equivalent qualification so I can be eligible. I'll be heading back to the Gaeltacht for a week to give me a hand since it'll make a nice break working from the book.

    Been working abroad most summers for the last 4 years, emigrated after graduating last year. Having been in Catalonia, Austria, Switzerland and now Poland, I see the pride people have in their languages and how its no detriment having to learn one. Alot of them here come out knowing English and German pretty well in addition to their own native language.

    Cousin is married to a native speaker and the child now is able to switch effortlessly between the two. Fantastic to listen to.


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  • #82
    DoYouEvenLift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    No, but I respect other people willing to learn to speak it fluently. I'd rather learn a language like Spanish that can be used in lots of places, it would give you the option of being able to move and live in Spanish speaking areas which would have better opportunities than any Gaeltacht areas.


  • #83
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I don't want my child educated through Irish. That is within my rights as a parent.

    Also teacher's unions wouldn't agree to it so the idea would be a total non-starter. (omg unions actually do something useful!)

    Yes but the point I am making is that it wouldn't be within your right as a parent if the Government decided to change the laws and make it mandatory for all children to be educated in Irish.


  • #84
    Reiver
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Reiver


    DoYouEvenLift wrote: »
    No, but I respect other people willing to learn to speak it fluently. I'd rather learn a language like Spanish that can be used in lots of places, it would give you the option of being able to move and live in Spanish speaking areas.

    Are you learning Spanish? I always found the Latin base for it a great hand, it's like you can sort of guess the vocabulary and puzzle it out half the time.


  • #85
    Stojkovic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Stojkovic


    If it was taught in schools when I was a kid and not bet into us with a big stick telling a story about some depressing grumpy aul bag on the Blaskets then maybe the language wouldnt be dying.
    The teachers are 100% to blame for that.

    I loved French at school and I am learning Spanish at the moment.


  • #86
    rosobel
    Site Banned Posts: 28 ✭rosobel


    Simple fact is the Irish language is ugly, there is nothing poetic or beautiful about it. French, Italian, Spanish and even Russian roll off the tongue but speaking Irish is like speaking Klingon, you don't pronounce words you spit them. If there was a lot more vowels and a lot less consonants it would probably be more appealing but as it is now it is ugly and that whole thing with a fadda (sp?) over a vowel making it then sound like a different vowel is an exercise in redundancy, like why not just use the intended vowel in the first place?


  • #87
    Dughorm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Dughorm


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Parents don't have a choice on whether they send their children to school so if all schools have to teach through Irish they will just have to get on with it.....

    I fail to see how this would be in any way helpful tbh - people before ideology!
    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Depends on what job you have but as I am in Financial services anything above the basics in most things has no practical benefit: English,Maths,Geography,History etc don't really have a

    I work with people from Spain,Germany and France and they all could speak English perfectly ....

    Surely you needed your primary school maths to check your calculations, english for your emails in your FS job and your geography to even know where Spain, Germany and France are? All from primary school days my friend ;)


  • #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,824 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I've been using Duolingo to refresh my memory. I was quite good at Irish in school, was one of my best subjects in fact, but I never used it outside the classroom and as such never really had a chance to gain proper fluency. I know Irish is taught very poorly but the curriculum can only be blamed to a certain extent if students aren't gonna bother putting in the effort to learn it anyway.

    I do think following the model that the Welsh and the Isle of Man are using would be very beneficial: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/apr/02/how-manx-language-came-back-from-dead-isle-of-man

    Having more Gaelscoileanna would be a huge thing. I know people say that they want their kids to learn more STEM subjects because they're more useful, but surely if they were taught as Gaeilge then the children won't be losing any STEM knowledge while gaining more knowledge of Irish?


  • #89
    DoYouEvenLift
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    Reiver wrote: »
    Are you learning Spanish? I always found the Latin base for it a great hand, it's like you can sort of guess the vocabulary and puzzle it out half the time.


    No, but I plan to. I learned French but haven't bothered trying to remain fluent in it since I'll probably never visit France again but I'll definitely be visiting/living in Spain and/or other Spanish speaking countries so I'd like to be able to give a strong effort at talking to them in their own language. Gonna use stuff like Duolingo to learn the basics and go from there.


    You learned Latin?


  • #90
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    Dughorm wrote: »
    I fail to see how this would be in any way helpful tbh - people before ideology!



    Surely you needed your primary school maths to check your calculations, english for your emails in your FS job and your geography to even know where Spain, Germany and France are? All from primary school days my friend ;)

    They are just basics.You din't read what I said I said anything above the basics in those classes has been fairly worthless.

    Maybe it wouldn't be helpful but I don't think there would be any other way of reviving the language. Children wouldn't mind having to be taught in it as they don't know any better at that age.


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  • #91
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »
    Yes but the point I am making is that it wouldn't be within your right as a parent if the Government decided to change the laws and make it mandatory for all children to be educated in Irish.

    That implies rights can be removed at the whim of the government. I've never protested but I would protest that.


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