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8th Amendment

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Comments

  • #302
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Medical consensus is that prior to 10 weeks the "baby" is not a foetus.

    A guide for those in doubt: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002398.htm


  • #303
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    Glenman wrote: »
    Eye surgery or childbirth usually don't result in the death of a child, abortion does.

    You said that if you dont like the look of abortions then you shouldnt want them allowed
    Glenman wrote: »
    Yes, Youth Defense for example do use very graphic images on some of their posters but these are just images from abortion procedures so if people don't like them then they shouldn't be pushing for abortion legislation.

    It has been highlighted that things are allowed no problem also arent something most people would want to watch. Now you are just moving goalposts.


  • #304
    Huntergonzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭Huntergonzo


    endacl wrote: »
    Depends. Regionality, an' all dat, bruv.

    A feck it, I think I'll just stick with horse, it's more local.


  • #305
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Who are we to question the will of God?

    I encourage you to write this on posters, along with Vote No!, and plaster the country with them before the referendum.

    It'll really help with the Yes vote, thanks.


  • #306
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,396 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    I referred to 12 weeks.
    Heartbeat begins before 12 weeks. Not sure what 10 weeks has to do with anything.

    Because say what you want, an embryo is not a human nor is it viable outside the womb. Therefore, forget 12 weeks, let's have abortions available before 10 weeks, agreed?


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  • #307
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    Because say what you want, an embryo is not a human nor is it viable outside the womb. Therefore, forget 12 weeks, let's have abortions available before 10 weeks, agreed?

    Why stop at weeks? Why not years?
    Abortions on anything under 10 years.

    Got an unruly child, why not remove it legally with an abortion?


  • #308
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Why stop at weeks? Why not years?
    Abortions on anything under 10 years.

    Got an unruly child, why not remove it legally with an abortion?

    Great idea but how would that be phrased for the constitution?


  • #309
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    traprunner wrote: »
    Great idea but how would that be phrased for the constitution?

    Well that's assuming we have repealed the 8th and replaced it with lets murder all our children if we want


  • #310
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,396 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Why stop at weeks? Why not years?
    Abortions on anything under 10 years.

    Got an unruly child, why not remove it legally with an abortion?
    It should be lawful to terminate an embryo for any reason.
    It should be (and is) lawful to terminate a human for specific reasons.

    It's not a difficult thing to comprehend. Can you give the lawful reason why a 10 year old child should be terminated? I can give you a lawful reason why a foetus should be terminated.


  • #311
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Why stop at weeks? Why not years?
    Abortions on anything under 10 years.

    Got an unruly child, why not remove it legally with an abortion?

    And this is why it is near impossible for there to be a discussion on abortion that wont turn to ****. People who think the purpose of an abortion is because a woman want to kill a child, a woman could never not want to be pregnant. Until people can tell the difference between an unwanted pregnancy and unwanted child nothing can be done.


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  • #312
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    It should be lawful to terminate an embryo for any reason.
    It should be (and is) lawful to terminate a human for specific reasons.

    It's not a difficult thing to comprehend. Can you give the lawful reason why a 10 year old child should be terminated? I can give you a lawful reason why a foetus should be terminated.

    Neither should be terminated, morally. Any society which allows it should have it's notional head examined.


  • #313
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    Not a NSA agent wrote: »
    And this is why it is near impossible for there to be a discussion on abortion that wont turn to ****. People who think the purpose of an abortion is because a woman want to kill a child, a woman could never not want to be pregnant. Until people can tell the difference between an unwanted pregnancy and unwanted child nothing can be done.

    An unwanted pregnancy is also an unwanted child.


  • #314
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    An unwanted pregnancy is also an unwanted child.

    So you disagree with the expert medical profession who do not call it a child?

    Zygote, blastocyst, embryo or foetus are the correct words to use.


  • #315
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    traprunner wrote: »
    So you disagree with the expert medical profession who do not call it a child?

    Well an unwanted pregnancy involves what exactly?
    At what point does it become magically wanted then.


  • #316
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Well an unwanted pregnancy involves what exactly?
    At what point does it become magically wanted then.

    It involved a zygote, blastocyst, embryo or foetus.


  • #317
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    An unwanted pregnancy is also an unwanted child.

    If a woman doesnt want to have a child then she can go for adoption, but that still requires 9 months of pregnancy and the effects it has. If a woman doesnt want to be pregnant then waiting until after the pregnancy isn't much good.


  • #318
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Not a NSA agent wrote: »
    People who think the purpose of an abortion is because a woman want to kill a child, a woman could never not want to be pregnant. Until people can tell the difference between an unwanted pregnancy and unwanted child nothing can be done.

    The No side do NOT believe embryos are children, or they would be pressing for abortion to be tried as murder. They'd be having funerals after miscarriages. Women returning from the UK after murdering their children would be arrested.

    We certainly shouldn't have freedom of information or travel, but they all pretend pro-lifers support those things. They didn't at the time, but none of them have tried to get those provisions removed since.

    It is not a simple case where they think embryo=baby, even if they talk that way for effect sometimes.


  • #319
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    Not a NSA agent wrote: »
    If a woman doesnt want to have a child then she can go for adoption, but that still requires 9 months of pregnancy and the effects it has. If a woman doesnt want to be pregnant then waiting until after the pregnancy isn't much good.

    So a finite period of discomfort followed by a life being given a chance at adoption, or a surgery to kill the life and a lifetime of the mother feeling guilty.
    Plus the effects on the mother's soul. It can't feel good to have a death on your conscience. How you explain that to your higher power?


  • #320
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    The No side do NOT believe embryos are children, or they would be pressing for abortion to be tried as murder. They'd be having funerals after miscarriages. Women returning from the UK after murdering their children would be arrested.

    We certainly shouldn't have freedom of information or travel, but they all pretend pro-lifers support those things. They didn't at the time, but none of them have tried to get those provisions removed since.

    It is not a simple case where they think embryo=baby, even if they talk that way for effect sometimes.
    There's the word "potential child" ....


  • #321
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Any society which allows it should have it's notional head examined.

    We allow it. That's what the 12th, 13th and 14th amendments were for, to make sure Irish women had access to abortion, and the State would not protect their unborn children, all around the 60%-40% level in the referendums.


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  • #322
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    It never takes long:
    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    An unwanted pregnancy is also an unwanted child.

    "Women should shut up and passively accept their duty as incubators."
    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    So a finite period of discomfort followed by a life being given a chance at adoption, or a surgery to kill the life and a lifetime of the mother feeling guilty.
    Plus the effects on the mother's soul. It can't feel good to have a death on your conscience. How you explain that to the Divinity?

    "My religious views should form the basis of laws governing women's rights."

    You don't have to scratch too deeply.


  • #323
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    There's the word "potential child" ....

    I find it strange that people supporting pro-life fail to acknowledge the real words for what it is: Zygote, blastocyst, embryo or foetus.


  • #324
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    We allow it. That's what the 12th, 13th and 14th amendments were for, to make sure Irish women had access to abortion, and the State would not protect their unborn children, all around the 60%-40% level in the referendums.

    We permit people to travel to other less christian countries to avail of legal killing.
    If I had my way this wouldn't be the case.


  • #325
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    traprunner wrote: »
    I find it strange that people supporting pro-life fail to acknowledge the real words for what it is: Zygote, blastocyst, embryo or foetus.

    People dont relate to those words like they do "baby" "child" etc.


  • #326
    Not a NSA agent
    Closed Accounts Posts: 781 ✭✭✭Not a NSA agent


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    So a finite period of discomfort followed by a life being given a chance at adoption, or a surgery to kill the life and a lifetime of the mother feeling guilty.
    Plus the effects on the mother's soul. It can't feel good to have a death on your conscience. How you explain that to the Divinity?

    A finite period of discomfort? Another thing the pro life side seems to be ignorant about is pregnancy.

    The rest is just religious nonsense.


  • #327
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,644 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    If I had my way this wouldn't be the case.

    Yes, we guessed, but even back in the dark days of 1992, the people voted 60-40 to keep things that way.


  • #328
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    People dont relate to those words like they do "baby" "child" etc.

    I relate to them because they are the proper words to use. Baby and child are emotional words used nearly as a form of blackmail. They are incorrect.


  • #329
    No Voter And Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 282 ✭✭No Voter And Proud


    Not a NSA agent wrote: »
    A finite period of discomfort? Another thing the pro life side seems to be ignorant about is pregnancy.

    The rest is just religious nonsense.

    I edited the post to remove that reference after I posted it.
    What's ignorant about my post though? Surely a pregnancy followed by giving a child up for adoption is better on a person's soul/health/mental state than knowing there was a life (or foetus, whatever word you want) growing inside them that she created and then ended.
    Zubeneschamali wrote: »
    Yes, we guessed, but even back in the dark days of 1992, the people voted 60-40 to keep things that way.

    I know. Democracy sometimes doesn't work but hey them's the rules. Best have it in another country which will reduce the numbers of Irish that can avail of the abortions. I recall a statistic that it was 1:4 ratio between Irish and UK people haviung abortions.
    traprunner wrote: »
    I relate to them because they are the proper words to use. Baby and child are emotional words used nearly as a form of blackmail. They are incorrect.
    They are correct. It's the same as the anti-life side using the scientific words for the opposite reason. To remove peoples emotional connection to their potential unborn offspring.


  • #330
    traprunner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭traprunner


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    I know. Democracy sometimes doesn't work but hey them's the rules. Best have it in another country which will reduce the numbers of Irish that can avail of the abortions. I recall a statistic that it was 1:4 ratio between Irish and UK people haviung abortions.

    I recall a statistic that 100% of people who wanted an abortion went abroad and got it.

    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    They are correct. It's the same as the anti-life side using the scientific words for the opposite reason. To remove peoples emotional connection to their potential unborn offspring.

    Nope, not correct. The words I provided are 100% accurate and reflect the situation. That is why it changes depending on the number of weeks that pass by. A bit like a newborn baby, becomes a baby, toddler, child, teen, adult.


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  • #331
    endacl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,443 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    No Voter And Proud wrote: »
    Neither should be terminated, morally. Any society which allows it should have it's notional head examined.

    Michael D?!?


This discussion has been closed.
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